DEEDS ROOT CITY

*Information about added varieties on page 3*​

 
 
Hey everyone! Long time lurker here... been using this site as an incredible resource for my everlasting search for face-melting heat. Decided to finally put all the knowledge I've gained to use, and grow my first super-hots!
 
This year was my first ever outdoor garden (and things went great!) along with many typical garden veggies, I grew some Thai chili's and orange habanero's. It's so awesome seeing all your hard work end up at the kitchen table. That being said... I've got growing fever now! Our outdoor season here in Idaho ends in Sept. - Oct. if you're lucky, and doesn't start back up until April-May'ish. That leaves me all winter with nothing to grow. So I decided to move things indoors to hold me over. I've always been fascinated with hydroponics and figured this would be the perfect time to dabble.
 
Enough with the boring background... and onto the juicy part: details and photos!
 
My grow includes:
Two 7 pots: Brain Strain and Douglah 
Thai Chili (saved seed from summer plant)
Nature's Bites: a cherry tomato (had some new seeds I wanted to try)
 
I had some storage under my stairs that I was able to convert into a makeshift grow room. I am using a 600w HPS bulb, and General Hydroponics Flora 3 part nutes.
 
In addition to my grow, I decided to conduct a mini experiment on seed starting... I read tons of stuff online about soaking seeds to speed up germination. Especially when soaked in a mild Hydrogen Peroxide solution. There was much debate whether soaking made any improvements so I though the best way would be to answer the question myself. I planted 12 seeds of each variety, 6 natural and six soaked for 24hours in a H2O2 solution. The "Natural" (un-soaked) seeds went in 11/13/13, and the soaked went in 11/14/13.
 

 
11/18/13: my tomatoes popped (no difference between soaked/natural)

 
11/20/13: my first Thai chili's popped (natural first)

 
11/25/13: several Brain Strain's and Douglah's are up (mixed between soaked/natural)

 
12/02/13: starting to see some real progress in the seedlings!

 
12/07/13: even more growth all around

 
12/07/13: first look at my grow area

 
12/09/13: first transplant! (Needless to say I nuked those poor plants with a blast furnace right above them) Its a learning experiment, right!? Good thing I started way more than I needed for backups.

 
12/27/13: after several rounds of trial and error I was able to get my plants to take in my new grow room

 
 
 
NOTES:
 
Brain Strain-
11/22/13: 1st sprout up (Natural)
11/25/13: 4 H202 sprouts up, 2nd Natural
12/2/13: 5/6 Natural + 6/6 H202, first set true leaves on couple plants
12/3/13 First fertilizer soak (diluted)
12/6/13 Second fertilizer soak (diluted)
 
Douglah:
11/25/13: 3 Natural sprouts, and first tip of H202 sprout up
12/2/13: 5/6 Natural + 3/6 H202, first set true leaves on couple plants
12/3/13 First fertilizer soak (diluted)
12/6/13 Second fertilizer soak (diluted)
 
Nature's Bites (tomato):
11/18/13: 6/6 Natural + 5/6 H202 (over weekend)
11/22/13: Most plants have first true leaves (still small)
11/25/13: First fertilizer soak (diluted)
12/2/13: Multiple sets true leaves
12/3/13 Second fertilizer soak (diluted)
12/6/13 Third fertilizer soak (diluted)
 
Thai Chili (Hybrid? saved seed from summer garden):
11/19/13: First glimpse of sprout (Natural)
11/22/13: 5/6 Natural + 2/3 H202
12/2/13: Most plants have established true leaves
 
 
Fertilizing (nutes): General Hyroponics Flora Series 3pt (Grow/Bloom/Micro):
Waited to add any nutrition until first true leaves had formed, but added fertilized water immediately after since rockwool is sterile and inert, I figured the little plants would get hungry fast.
 
While plants were still in the propagation tray I would flood the bottom with nutrient solution and allow the rockwool to soak up as much as it could, and drain out whatever water was left. I would do this as often as the rockwool felt dry: initially about once a week, moving to multiple times per week as the plants grew larger. At this point I was using 1ml grow + 1ml bloom + 2ml micro / gallon water. ~300ppm
 
When plants were first moved into their grow buckets, I used 2tbsp grow, 1.5 tbsp micro, and .5tbsp bloom / ~4 gallons water. ~7-800ppm
    -May be a little high for some varieties, Thai and tomato loved it, 7pots got some serious nute burn. Maybe try 500ppm
 
First signs of blooms/blossom drop on tomato nutes were changed to 3tbsp bloom + 1.5tbsp micro + .5tbsp grow / ~3 gallons water. ~880ppm
 
Tap water here is about pH8+ so I was being lazy at first, and not testing or adjusting my pH. Once I noticed some iron/magnesium deficiency symptoms in my peppers, I realized I needed to be checking my pH as some nutes were getting locked out. After testing, and realized I needed to add about 1/2 cap full of pH Down to each nute refresh and check to make sure pH was starting around 5.5 and climbing over the time it was used. This cleared the symptoms pretty quickly.
 
 
Transplanting:
12/9/13 first transplant: WAAAAYYYY too early, absolutely fried those things. Need to wait much longer 3+ true leaf sets, and keep the light high until they plants are used to it.

 

[thirdcoasttx]

Your plants are looking awesome. As soon as we buy a house I will be installing a hydroponic set up.

 

[Jeff H]

Thanks guys!! 
 
 
 
It is called "Natures Bite's" It was actually given to me as a small sample from a seed company client at work. You know, that's a great question. I'm not really sure... but I suppose a determinate variety would probably be better suited for indoor since they wont turn into a giant tree, maybe something like this: http://bonnieplants.com/products/vegetables/tomato-varieties/determinate-tomatoes/sweet-n-neat-cherry-tomato ? But I'm not really sure how I feel about determinates... especially if it was going to be a plant I wanted to rely on all winter for fresh edibles. I think now that I know what I'm getting myself into growing a tom indoors, I'll just to a better job at suckering, pruning, and staking/training. I'd really like to be able to set up a mini indoor garden that could be utilized for my winter needs (plenty of peppers, but not just peppers) almost like my own living salad bar 
 
 

 
This is basically what I am thinking of doing next year in my flood table. Lettuce, tomato, and some jalapenos and some habs. Herbs too.  I'll start the plants in July or Aug this year and then bring them inside in the fall. 
 
I agree. Indeterminate for indoor grows. You could easily suspend that vine all over the grow room if you keep the suckers under control. I started a couple tomatoes this year, I think they are Big Boys, in the grow room but I started them too late. About two feet tall and no flowers yet and it is Feb already. Stuck eating tasteless tomatoes for at least another month. 

 

[stc3248]

At the hydro store I use they have a tomato in a dedicated grow tent under an HPS that goes single stalk straight up about 2' then into a horizontal net creating what looks like a full shelf of tomato plant...very cool. I wonder what the cost is per lb of fruit to grow under lights in hydro on average??? You would certainly get better tasting fruit during the winter than in stores, but I wonder if there would be a real savings?

 

[Nick08*]

Your plants are looking awesome. As soon as we buy a house I will be installing a hydroponic set up.

 
You won't regret it, its alot of fun! 
 

 
This is basically what I am thinking of doing next year in my flood table. Lettuce, tomato, and some jalapenos and some habs. Herbs too.  I'll start the plants in July or Aug this year and then bring them inside in the fall. 
 
I agree. Indeterminate for indoor grows. You could easily suspend that vine all over the grow room if you keep the suckers under control. I started a couple tomatoes this year, I think they are Big Boys, in the grow room but I started them too late. About two feet tall and no flowers yet and it is Feb already. Stuck eating tasteless tomatoes for at least another month. 

 
A flood table might have to be something I look into for stuff like lettuce and herbs... buckets would be a waste. But I would probably keep the buckets for bigger plants like toms and peppers. I'd even like to try a cucumber, which I think would be pretty manageable with some trellising or something.
 
When were your tomatoes started? Bummer you wont get any indoors... but hey, at least you will have a really solid head start and get some early spring to enjoy! Better than most people!
 

At the hydro store I use they have a tomato in a dedicated grow tent under an HPS that goes single stalk straight up about 2' then into a horizontal net creating what looks like a full shelf of tomato plant...very cool. I wonder what the cost is per lb of fruit to grow under lights in hydro on average??? You would certainly get better tasting fruit during the winter than in stores, but I wonder if there would be a real savings?

 
That sounds like a really cool tomato set up, next time you're in there if you have your phone (and they allow it) you should snap a pic to share! I'd be really interested in seeing it!
 
Especially using HPS, I highly doubt there is much cost savings, its actually probably alot more expensive. Especially with a small grow like mine. My bulb costs about $28/month to run @ 18 hours per day (its only on 12 now, so a little less). And that's not counting, nute costs, or time for that matter. BUT... I look at it as more of a hobby, and I very much enjoy the time spent growing, with a side benefit of some delicious produce! Not to mention meeting and sharing with a lot of very friendly, smart, and kind folks here on THP. My real savings come from the outdoor summer garden...
 
That being said... as my knowledge, technique, and space improves... it would be AWESOME to get a highly efficient indoor grow setup with some LED's to get it into a more cost efficient grow.

 

[Jeff H]

At the hydro store I use they have a tomato in a dedicated grow tent under an HPS that goes single stalk straight up about 2' then into a horizontal net creating what looks like a full shelf of tomato plant...very cool. I wonder what the cost is per lb of fruit to grow under lights in hydro on average??? You would certainly get better tasting fruit during the winter than in stores, but I wonder if there would be a real savings?

 
At $1.00-$1.50 a pound for tomatoes in the winter vs. $20-30 in electric a month, I'm going to say that there is no savings and for stews and soups, there is no point in growing them - heck, even canned tomatoes work here. But eating them raw, there is a huge difference. I had a salad the other day and ended up picking around the tomatoes. Just no flavor at all. 

 

[Nick08*]

 
I'm actually not doing anything with pollination currently. I thought about it.... but wanted to see if they would take off on their own. Since peppers and toms are self pollinating, I figured (hoped) that when I added the fan it would provide enough airflow/movement the pollen would get around in the flowers. In addition to the small fan you can see in the photos, I also have two 6in can fans mounted to holes I drilled in the closet door, and connected to a thermostat. If it gets over 85 in there (and it'll get over 100 with the 600w bulb running), both fans automatically kick on; the upper fan blows the hot air out, and the bottom fan draws cool fresh basement air in. There's decent plant movement with the one fan running, but when the can fans kick on they really get a good breeze.

 
Snapped a couple quick pics of the fans...
 
TOP:                                                                                                  

   
 
BOTTOM:

 
DOOR CLOSED:

 
 
At night (When the light is running) its a pretty wild to see. What with the sound of four 5gal buckets bubbling away, and these two submarine porthole looking things emitting that eerie orange HPS hue into the hall.  People never know what to expect.

 

[Penny]

Nice on the tomato....nothing like fresh off the vine, not the rubber ones you buy in the grocery store!! Plants are looking great too.

 

[Nick08*]

Nice on the tomato....nothing like fresh off the vine, not the rubber ones you buy in the grocery store!! Plants are looking great too.

 
Thanks Penny! Yes it truly is a nice little reward for some of the time spent growing!
Well, one of the down side to having my starts at the office is that I cannot check up on them over the weekend. But one of the up sides is... it makes coming into the office on Monday morning a lot more exciting!  
 
Unfortunately there weren't as many pops as I was hoping for. Baccatum's off to a big heard start, with 2 more Aji Pineapples joining the party, for a total of 4/24 up in 10 days.
 
My impatience led me to do a little investigating (digging through the rockwool with tweezers) and there are radicles on every other variety but my Fatalii's. Still early in the game though, so guess it'll just be another exercise in patience.
 
Never grown any of my own Baccatum's yet. Are these very leggy already? or is this kind of how they start? Planning on getting them under the lights ASAP either way.
 
STARFISH:

 
PINEAPPLE:

 

[Nick08*]

Both office douglah's have dropped the majority of their older buds... but there are some new growth that could be promising. I think it's my fault, never got that timer, and the lights were off all weekend! 
 
But the office brain has had it's first flower open up!

 

[Jeff H]

Sprouts look great Nick. I can't help you on the baccs. My 1st year with them too, but they look like they need light pretty soon. 
 
Indoor chinense are really tough to get pods to set. Don't stress about flower drop. If they aren't happy in the slightest they will drop 100s of buds before they set a pod. 

 

[stc3248]

Baccs shoot straight up fast...and will be leggy even under propper lights, but those need to get under the lights perdy quick! Bury them up to their necks when you transplant and make sure they get a good dose of airflow or they'll stay fragile. Baccs are crazy growers...the 12' tall Birgits I grew last year and the 12' Bishop's Crown the year before will attest to that! Baccs are very fun plants that'll keep you picking like crazy and make growing seem easy.

 

[Nick08*]

Thanks fella's.
 

Sprouts look great Nick. I can't help you on the baccs. My 1st year with them too, but they look like they need light pretty soon. 
 
Indoor chinense are really tough to get pods to set. Don't stress about flower drop. If they aren't happy in the slightest they will drop 100s of buds before they set a pod. 

That eases my worries a little about indoor chinense... in reality these things are just waiting to go outside in the work garden, so no indoor pods is really no big worry.
 

Baccs shoot straight up fast...and will be leggy even under propper lights, but those need to get under the lights perdy quick! Bury them up to their necks when you transplant and make sure they get a good dose of airflow or they'll stay fragile. Baccs are crazy growers...the 12' tall Birgits I grew last year and the 12' Bishop's Crown the year before will attest to that! Baccs are very fun plants that'll keep you picking like crazy and make growing seem easy.

Love the sound of that.. can't wait for some killer harvests!! 
 
Put them under the lights yesterday right away... since they are the only ones up, the dome is still on, so hopefully that will provide enough light until some of the rest begin to pop. Should I take the dome off completely? Seems a little early..

 
 
Had another question for you guys... so one of my soil Douglah's, is dropping a lot of middle leaves. Bottom leaves are still intact, and new growth looks relatively healthy, not really sure what is up!? There is a small line on the stem of each leaf near the stalk that is green (the rest of the stem is a purple color) and the leaves are dropping right at this point. I've noticed that my other plants (same conditions: soil, lights, nutes, etc.) have the same part in their stem... but are not dropping any leaves? Ideas?
 
Took some pics incase my description was hard to understand...
 
The red circled spots are my best photo of the purple/green delineation from where the stems are falling:

 
This is a pic of the middle section of the plant:

 
New growth looking a little yellow, but generally healthy:

Thoughts?

 

[juanitos]

if they aren't getting enough light the plant will cut its losses. if top canopy takes up all the light and no penetration then yeah?

 

[Nick08*]

if they aren't getting enough light the plant will cut its losses. if top canopy takes up all the light and no penetration then yeah?

 
I would generally agree with that idea. The only thing that makes me hesitant, is that the plants right next to it, are doing just fine (even another douglah)... Maybe its just a weakling?

 

[stc3248]

There are a lot of factors that can cause that. Temp of both air and soil, light or just the age of the leaf being the most probable. I wouldn't sweat it as long as the plant looks otherwise healthy and is putting out new growth that looks clean. Looks as though the largest leaves are the ones falling??? The plants only grow those jumbo leaves under lights or in a very shady location outside and they are the first to drop once the plant has been hardened off...so it may be getting really good light and is just shedding them because it no longer needs them. Have you changed the lighting conditions of those plants within the past 2-4 weeks? Temps would be my next choice if there is an obvious reason that plant isn't staying as warm as other plants on the shelf. Is it in a potentially cooler spot???
 
Like I said though...if otherwise healthy and still growing well I wouldn't sweat it too much.

 

[Jeff H]

+1 to #135. Like Shane said, if it is a healthy plant, don't worry too much. I lost a lot of leaves on two of my plants and I have some ideas to why, but I really don't know. The plants are healthy and pumping out new growth, so I'm not overly worried.

 

[Devv]

A buddy of mine bought 10 plants from me, and 4 dropped leaves, the older ones. And he got worried. The best explanation I could offer was they had a change of locale and climate, and they are regrouping. So I'm in total agreement with the "if the new growth looks OK, you're good".
 
Tom's during winter: We have 3 plants, Early Girls in 5 gal pots. They've spent so much time locked in the shop with this way colder than normal winter we're all having, but they keep producing enough to keep us in fresh maties. Smaller than normal but good!
 
So I guess the question regarding the cost is, does it make you happy?
 
Really struggling with keeping up this week..
 
Keep it green!

 

[Nick08*]

A buddy of mine bought 10 plants from me, and 4 dropped leaves, the older ones. And he got worried. The best explanation I could offer was they had a change of locale and climate, and they are regrouping. So I'm in total agreement with the "if the new growth looks OK, you're good".
 
Tom's during winter: We have 3 plants, Early Girls in 5 gal pots. They've spent so much time locked in the shop with this way colder than normal winter we're all having, but they keep producing enough to keep us in fresh maties. Smaller than normal but good!
 
So I guess the question regarding the cost is, does it make you happy?
 
Really struggling with keeping up this week..
 
Keep it green!

 
Excellent on the tomatoes... hard to beat being able to eat your own fresh ones mid-winter!
 
And yes, the cost is more than worth it to me! ...especially since I have roommates, and the electricity bill is split up! (although one of my roomies had a big fish tank for a while with pumps and lights and everything, so I guess it all works out in the end)
 
There is so much going on in this forum I am really struggling to stay on top of things as well.
 

+1 to #135. Like Shane said, if it is a healthy plant, don't worry too much. I lost a lot of leaves on two of my plants and I have some ideas to why, but I really don't know. The plants are healthy and pumping out new growth, so I'm not overly worried.

 

There are a lot of factors that can cause that. Temp of both air and soil, light or just the age of the leaf being the most probable. I wouldn't sweat it as long as the plant looks otherwise healthy and is putting out new growth that looks clean. Looks as though the largest leaves are the ones falling??? The plants only grow those jumbo leaves under lights or in a very shady location outside and they are the first to drop once the plant has been hardened off...so it may be getting really good light and is just shedding them because it no longer needs them. Have you changed the lighting conditions of those plants within the past 2-4 weeks? Temps would be my next choice if there is an obvious reason that plant isn't staying as warm as other plants on the shelf. Is it in a potentially cooler spot???
 
Like I said though...if otherwise healthy and still growing well I wouldn't sweat it too much.

 
Correct, largest leaves have been the first to drop. The light fixture itself is the same... but its been the work one that I don't have a timer set up on... so I think the plants are struggling with the odd lighting hours. Guess I should have realized that one. Temps should be exactly the same, in a climate controlled office.
 
But I guess there seems to be an all around consensus not to worry about it too much since the new growth is doing ok. That's the route I'm going to take, and just hope to keep these things going for the next couple months before plant out.
 
Thanks all!
 
 
2 more Pineapple's popped last night, 4/4 on those bad boys. Still sitting at 2/4 for the Starfish... and 0/4 on the other four varieties.

 

[thirdcoasttx]

Nick what kind of timer are you using? I have found nothing but crap locally like the ones that stay on for 8 hrs and then cycle off for 24. Thinkin I might have to buy online.

 

[Nick08*]

Nick what kind of timer are you using? I have found nothing but crap locally like the ones that stay on for 8 hrs and then cycle off for 24. Thinkin I might have to buy online.

 
I just have an old dial timer, not sure the brand. I will be able to snap a pic and show you later when i get home. Pretty sure it's a cheapy... but it has worked great so far!
 
2/13/14 UPDATE
 
2 reapers showed up over night! And 1 more Starfish.
 
Head count:
 
Reaper: 2/4
Goat: 0/4
Fatalli: 0/4
Starfish: 3/4
Pineapple: 4/4
Rocoto: 0/4
 
Reapers:

 
Germ Station:

 
Rockwool was a little dry this morning, and dont have a spray bottle/syringe laying aroudn at the office. Fortunately, a co-worker came to the rescue! Used a very fancy device, the straw-gravity trick!

 
Since we were talking about bee's over in JJJesse's glog, and I recently found a pic of an old inspection I was doing, I thought I'd share...