DocNrock's 2013 Glog - 7/11/13

My 2013 grow officially began 10/14/2012, when seeds hit soil. After seeing Fernando (SocalChilehead) growing in his greenhouse "sanctuary" and KiNGDeNNiZ continuing to start new growth in his AeroGarden, as well as the community HP22B grow thread already being 8 pages, I broke down and started my 2013 grow. I was going to limit it to 50 varieties, but that ended up being 64, 77 including the plants I want to save from 2012. If some varieties don't pop or I end up losing some along the way, I might still be down to 50 (or less!) in no time. The grow list with pop dates is at the bottom of this post.

Since I had plenty of seeds I wanted to try an experiment. Which is better for germination, soil or Rapid Rooters? I have two mini-greenhouses with 36 soil cups each, and one mini-greenhouse with a 72 cell insert loaded with Rapid Rooters. All seeds were soaked overnight in water that had been boiled and cooled and contained a dilution of brewed chamomile tea and H2O2. The Rapid Rooters and soil were both moistened with the same mix. The soil is Sungro Sunshine mix #1 amended lightly with Ancient Forest and worm castings. Wondering if the organisms in the amendments might help break down the seed coat. Each cell contains about five seeds. This will force me to cull the weaklings, as opposed to trying to save them, hahaha! At most I will end up with two seedlings for each variety. If both survive, I can try to gift one of the two. I am thinking that some varieties may germinate better in soil, some better in the Rapid Rooters, and for some it may not make a difference. I read somewhere that kelp solutions are rich in growth hormones. Has anyone added a light kelp solution dilution to their germination setup? I was thinking of adding a couple of drops to each Rapid Rooter cell. Fert-wise, the kelp solutions are very, very weak. I doubt it would do any harm. Has anyone ever tried the kelp? I have not, but might try it later on anything that seems stubborn to sprout.

I am hoping these guys are all budded up come springtime, and ready for an early harvest. Since my indoor space is limited, I am giving serious consideration to building a small greenhouse in the backyard and putting in a couple of space heaters for the night time. I decided against a raised bed, and will probably go with 5 gallon Root Pouches for the larger plants. Some of the annuums and plants I'm as yet unsure of I will grow in 2 gallon pots. If I end up liking them, I can always up-pot them.

Getting organized:

Man, I hope I didn't mix any of these up! 64 cups to keep straight is a far cry from 3. It will be 6 months until I know for sure!:

Rapid Rooters:

Soil:

Let the waiting game begin!:

Also, in case anyone is interested, the white plastic labelling tags are available at Discount Hydroponics, $2.95/100! Cheaper than popsickle sticks!

Regarding the plants I already have, I am going to try to start cuttings off most of them in the event the plants don't make it over the winter. I won't need to start those from seed, although there are four varieties (Douglah, Fatalii, Barrackpore and Yellow Bhut) I am starting from seed, as well.

Question: When we start a new grow season, is it typical to just add to one's glog thread, or is it appropriate to start a new thread for the new grow year?

Anyway, happy growing to you all and thanks for looking. I'm hoping all the lessons I learned this year will help me to make this grow much more successful!

GROW LIST: I will try to edit in pop dates for both soil and Rapid Rooters. The Rapid Rooters might get earlier pop dates since I can see the rootlets before hooks form.

Sown seeds (65):

Trinidad Scorpion (AJIJOE) 10/20/12 (RR)
HP22B (Pepper Joe) 10/19/12 (RR), 10/27/12 (soil)
Primo (Primo) 10/22/12 (RR), 10/26/12 (soil)
Billy Boy Jonah (Silver_Surfer via Coheed) 10/22/12 (RR)
7 Pot Congo Gigantic (Pepperlover) 10/23/12 (RR), 10/26/12 (soil)
7 Pot Barrackpore (Biscgolf) 10/27/12 (RR)
Dorset Naga (Pepperlover - pods) 10/24/12 (RR), 10/26/12 (soil)
Naga Morich (Biscgolf - pods) 10/22/12 (RR), 10/24/12 (soil)
Bhut Jolokia (JoynersHotPeppers)
Red Rocoto (SocalChilihead) 10/22/12 (RR)
Malawi Peppadew (Refiningfirechiles) 10/19/12 (RR), 10/24/12 (soil)
Trinidad PI281317 (Pepperlover) 10/19/12 (RR), 10/24/12 (soil)
Anaheim (Pepperlover - gift)
7 Pot Chiguanas (Silver Surfer via Coheed) 10/23/12 (RR)
Red Devil's Tongue (Pepperlover - gift) 10/28/12 (RR)
Butch T (Pepperlover - pods) 10/24/12 (RR)
7 Pot Jonah (Pepperlover - pods) 10/27/12 (RR)
7 Pot Burgundy (Silver_Surfer via Coheed) 10/23/12 (RR), 10/26/12 (soil)
Infinity 10/20/12 (soil), 10/22/12 (RR)
Yellow Moruga (Pepperlover) 10/23/12 (soil), 10/23/12 (RR)
Yellow Brain (Biscgolf) 10/24/12 (RR)
Yellow Bhut Jolokia (Biscgolf) 10/26/12 (soil)
Fatalii (AJIJOE) 10/22/12 (RR),10/28/12 (soil)
7 Pot Yellow (Biscgolf) 10/24/12 (RR)
Peach Bhut (AJIJOE) 10/28/12 (RR)
Beni Highland (AJIJOE) 10/19/12 (RR), 10/22/12 (soil)
Trinidad Morova (Pepperlover) 10/23/12 (soil), 10/28/12 (RR)
7 Pot Orange (Silver_Surfer via Coheed) 10/23/12 (soil), 10/28/12 (RR)
Golden Cayenne (SocalChilehead) 10/19/12 (RR), 10/20/12 (soil)
Yellow Scotch Bonnet (AJIJOE) 10/22/12 (soil), 10/22/12 (RR)
7 Pot Brown (Biscgolf) 10/24/12 (soil)
Douglah (Biscgolf) 10/27/12 (soil)
Black Habanero (Refiningfirechiles) 10/20/12 (RR), 10/26/12 (soil)
Chocolate Scorpion (KiNGDeNNiZ) 10/22/12 (RR), 10/23/12 (soil)
Douglah x Chocolate Scorpion F4 (Silver_Surfer via Coheed) 10/23/12 (RR), 10/24/12 (soil)
Black Naga (Refiningfirechiles) 10/20/12 (soil)
Pasilla Bajio (Refiningfirechiles) 10/22/12 (soil), 10/27/12 (RR)
Long Chocolate Habanero (AJIJOE) 10/24/12 (RR), 10/24/12 (soil)
Chocolate Habanero (AJIJOE) 10/23/12 (soil), 10/24/12 (RR)
Black Stinger (Refiningfirechiles) 10/22/12 (RR), 10/23/12 (soil)
7 Pot White (Pepperlover) 10/24/12 (RR), 10/27/12 (soil)
Giant White Habanero (AJIJOE) 10/22/12 (RR), 10/23/12 (soil)
White Bullet Habanero (AJIJOE) 10/22/12 (RR), 10/26/12 (soil)
White Devil's Tongue (Silver_Surfer via Coheed) 10/28/12 (RR)
Serrano (Pepper Joe - free) 10/19/12 (RR), 10/19/12 (soil) ***FIRST SOIL***
Jalapeno (Pepper Joe - free) 10/19/12 (RR), 10/20/12 (soil)
Red Bell (store bought pepper) 10/19/12 (RR), 10/26/12 (soil)
Andy F1 Gochu (Stickman via SocalChilehead) 10/17/12 (RR) ***TIED, FIRST OVERALL*** 10/23/12 (soil)
Korean Winner Hybrid (Stickman via SocalChilehead) 10/17/12 (RR) ***TIED, FIRST OVERALL***
Pimenta de Neyde (SocalChilehead) 10/28/12 (RR)
Trinidad Scorpion Green (SocalChilehead) 10/19/12 (RR)
Most Prolific C.chacoense (Pepperlover - gift) 10/23/12 (RR)
Royal Black (AJIJOE) 10/22/12 (RR), 10/26/12 (soil)
Assam (SocalChilehead) 10/19/12 (RR), 10/22/12 (soil)
Trinidad Scorpion "FG" (AJIJOE) 10/19/12 (RR), 10/24/12 (soil)
Australian Lantern Habanero (AJIJOE) 10/26/12 (RR), 10/26/12 (soil)
Aji Yellow (AJIJOE) 10/23/12 (RR)
Jamaican Hot Chocolate (KiNGDeNNiZ) 10/22/12 (RR)
Aji Omnicolor (OROZCONLECHE) 10/19/12 (RR)
Not-Trinidad Scorpion (long yellow pod from Arboretum, KiNGDeNNiZ) 10/22/12 (RR)
Mystery Chocolate Mix (Silver_Surfer) 10/23/12 (RR)
Red Congo (AJIJOE) 10/23/12 (RR)
Peach Habanero (AJIJOE) 10/19/12 (RR), 10/22/12 (soil)
Yellow Hablokia (AJIJOE) 10/20/12 (RR), 10/22/12 (soil)
Sown 10/20/12
Yellow Bell (store-bought pepper) 10/23/12 (RR)
Sown 10/28/12
Chocolate Bell (Refiningfirechiles)
Jay's Peach Ghost Scorpion (Refiningfirechiles)
Malaysian Goronong (Refiningfirechiles)
Douglah (Refiningfirechiles)
Peter (Refiningfirechiles)
Yellow Bhut (Refiningfirechiles)
Chocolate Bhut (Refiningfirechiles)
Aji Pineapple (Refiningfirechiles)
Aji Dulce 1 (Tradewinds)
Datil (Tradewinds)
Goat's Horn (Tradewinds)
NuMex Big Jim (Tradewinds)
Paprika (Tradewinds)
Brain Strain 7 (PepperRidge)


What I hope to save from my current grow, either whole plants or clones (13):

Carribean Red (local nursery)
Aji Panca (Refiningfirechiles)
Peter Pepper (Refiningfirechiles)
Jamaican Yellow Mushroom (Refiningfirechiles)
Moruga (Refiningfirechiles)
Malaysian Goronong (Refiningfirechiles)
Thai Dragon (North Park Produce)
Chenzo (North Park Produce)
Red Brain Strain (Baker's Peppers - pods)
Chinese 5-color (Orozconleche)
Aji Dulce (Orozconleche)
Datil (Orozconleche)
Bonnie "World's Hottest Hab" (Fatalii?) (Home Depot)

I'm going to do my best to keep one of each alive, but with 77 total, I might be lucky if a few croak!

 

[DocNrock]

Hi Doc,
   Sorry to hear about the Giant Whitefly eggs. I've never heard of those before, and why would they lay eggs in concentric circles? The money shot of your recent pulls looked great! I think I saw some Andy gochus in there. I'm glad the Rapires Hungarians are doing well for you too. Have a great Father's Day weekend!

Hi Rick!  No worries, bro.  In biology there tends to be some order, and they definitely looked like some kind of egg to me.  Fortunately, as I find the involved leaves, they get plucked and burned!    Thanks!  There were indeed Andys in there, and there were Korean Winners, also!  Question:  What I find online about the Rapires, all the pics are light green.  Is that how the Hungarians use them?  I have one or two that look like they are ripening towards red/orange.  I'll try both and see.  Thanks for da seeds!  And Happy Father's Day to you, as well!
 

Doc Brent the color on your smoked chilies came out excellent, freaking fantastic job brethren, I love their look!
 
Don’t know about anyone else but I’m feeling like a peon after seeing your magic mon [SIZE=12pt]♪ ♫ ♪ ♫ ♪[/SIZE]

• 7 Pot White has a very nice color, you say "creamy color," I see a matte light yellow, WG likes ... nice!
• Peach Ghost is simply beautiful/excellent breathtaking \o/ ... home run mon ...
• Highly dangerous looking Sepia Serpent pods I love the rough surface bumps
• Wow your tallest is taller than all mine put together
• Super harvest with beautiful colors
• Fabulous, Brilliant, Superb, are some of the descriptive words that come to mind and you said no one’s a peon

Keep up dis awesome job mon and have a great weekend back at ya mon!
 
Edit: Doc try some of the "death by rosemary oil" and if you don't want to make some up, neem works great both on the whitefly and mites. I too did a little cutting but not down to the stalk and you can beat them, it just takes several applications (spraying). Good luck with the war ...

Thanks Ramon, you are way too kind.  The color of the White 7 doesn't look accurate on my computer screen.  Like you said, it looks yellowish on the computer.  In person, it is a cream-colored off-white.   Thank you for all the kind superlatives, my friend!  Happy Father's Day!
 

Awesome update!
 
Glad to see you're hauling the pods in some good numbers.
 
Now the busy time starts!
 
Smoked peppers are looking good!
 
That Chinese 5 color is a cool looking plant, love the multi colored pods.
 
Have a Happy Fathers Day!

Thanks Scott!  Happy Father's Day to you, as well!  Gonna be a busy day cutting, deseeding, and dehydrating...as well as grinding the last dehydrator load! 
 

Crazy pod shots! So is the white 7 as yellow as it looks? Sepia serps both look cool! The irregular pheno is way gnarly. Btw, mine are bushing up. But much growth in any direction, just filling in the empty spaces. Maybe they will take off and decide to flower soon.
Jay's peach looks prime!

Break out some individual pod shots from that awesome harvest! That big ass yellow pod on the left looks like we should be formally introduced!

Jason, my man!  Thanks for stopping in!  The White 7 really is a cream color.  The camera/computer monitor make it look a bit yellow, but in reality there is no yellow to it.  It's about like a White Bullet Hab in color.  So far it looks like four out of five of my Sepia Serpents have the desired phenotype, and, well, you saw the fifth!  Since both parents are brown, it will be interesting to see if any of them ripen red or even yellow. 
 
Hahaha!  "That big ass yellow pod!"  That is a Yellow Brain that I posted a few updates ago on the plant, partially ripe.  Before I get to chopping, I'll photo some individual ripe pods.
 
Thanks for stopping in, my friend!
 

Awesome update and harvest! Glad to see so many on this board growing the Jay's this year. You will love the heat and taste.

 
Thanks Chris!  Really excited to have obtained seed for it.  I had plenty of red varieties but only two other peach varieties.  Really stoked on it!  Happy Father's Day!  (are you a father???)

Great stuff and even better harvest Doc! Wow! So early for numbers like that, you're on your game for sure!

Thanks Shane, but I owe it all to everyone on this board who knowingly or unknowingly gave me the knowledge to grow.  You included.  Happy Father's Day, as well!
 

The sepia serpent definitely is gnarly. The Jay's peach ghost scorp looks really interesting and may end up on my grow list next year.
 
Looks like everything is going great

Thank you Stefan.  And Happy Father's Day to you.  You have a real gem with Sofia. 

 

[MGOLD86]

Looking great Doc. Sorry to hear about the pests, but it looks like it ain't holding up the harvests much! That sepia looks pretty gnarly, It is always fun to find some crazy ones in the bunch!

 

[stickman]

Question:  What I find online about the Rapires, all the pics are light green.  Is that how the Hungarians use them?  I have one or two that look like they are ripening towards red/orange.  I'll try both and see.  Thanks for da seeds!  And Happy Father's Day to you, as well!

 
Hi Doc,
   The Hungarians pick them when full-sized but still light green for pickling. It doesn't so much matter if they don't have any sweetness for that since sugar can be added to the brine, and when they're still green they're firmer, so they keep their crunch longer in the jar. The ripe ones are used fresh as a frying pepper. I bet they'd make good Rellenos too.

 

[GA Growhead]

Happy Father's Day!
Yellow brains! Yumm yummy! Was checking mine out today. Can't wait to have a ripe one.

 

[DocNrock]

Looking great Doc. Sorry to hear about the pests, but it looks like it ain't holding up the harvests much! That sepia looks pretty gnarly, It is always fun to find some crazy ones in the bunch!

Thanks Matt!  No worries, bro, it's all part of the grow.    Just went through all my plants with the proverbial "fine-toothed comb" this morning.  Plucked a few leaves and a single branch with some aphids, but so far things are A-OK!  Happy Father's Day!
 

 
Hi Doc,
   The Hungarians pick them when full-sized but still light green for pickling. It doesn't so much matter if they don't have any sweetness for that since sugar can be added to the brine, and when they're still green they're firmer, so they keep their crunch longer in the jar. The ripe ones are used fresh as a frying pepper. I bet they'd make good Rellenos too.

Rick, thanks for the info!  That is great to hear.  With that info, I can think of lots of things to do with them!  Not the least of which is some bastardization of goulash!  Have a great Father's Day!
 

Happy Father's Day!
Yellow brains! Yumm yummy! Was checking mine out today. Can't wait to have a ripe one.

Thanks, Jason!  Hope it's a good one for ya!  I took your advice and decided I'd give you some "formal introductions," lol.
 
I have the White 7 Pot surrounded by a few White Bullet Habs.  The pic from my camera and/or the computer screen look a bit yellow, but you can see the White 7 Pot is pretty similar in color to the White Bullet Habs. 
 

 
Here is the "formal introduction."
Beni Highland    Jamaican Yellow Mushroom
Yellow Brain    7 Pot Burgundy    7 Pot Yellow
Long Chocolate Hab    Fatalii    Peach Hab
 

 
Finally, as I said above to Matt, I went through everything this morning looking for pests, and of course the occasional ripe pod.  My plants had a Father's Day Gift for me.  This morning's haul:
 

 
May everyone else's Father's Day be special and harvests be exponential! 

 

[stickman]

Nice pull Doc! you know, I was thinking... we have a Hungarian expert in-house. You could always pm HabaneroHead to check in with him about the peppers they grow and how they use them. His English is pretty good too. Cheers

 

[DocNrock]

Nice pull Doc! you know, I was thinking... we have a Hungarian expert in-house. You could always pm HabaneroHead to check in with him about the peppers they grow and how they use them. His English is pretty good too. Cheers

Thanks Rick!  I just might do that.  Have some questions about the Kurtovska Kapija, as well.  Those things get as big or bigger than Poblanos!

 

[GA Growhead]

Thanks for the fix!
Waiting till i can pick ripe pods daily!
Some nice pods you got there!

 

[Devv]

Nice haul Doc!
 
This is going to be happening for awhile!
 
Edit: Happy Fathers Day!

 

[HabaneroHead]

Nice pull Doc! you know, I was thinking... we have a Hungarian expert in-house. You could always pm HabaneroHead to check in with him about the peppers they grow and how they use them. His English is pretty good too. Cheers

 
Thanks Rick, I will take it a compliment!
If I'm right these are the seeds I was sending to you at the beginning of the season. I'm glad to see you shared them with Doc, as this is how this community is working, and without it, I wouldn't grow superhots.
 
Hi Doc,
Though I am not pretty active on this forum, I am checking the glogs every day to see how the chileheads are getting with the peppers. It's good to see folks alredy having nice harvest, when I am just begging to my plants not to drop the flowers.
Regarding the Rapires, this type is called in Hungary 'hegyes erős', which stands for 'pointed hot', but many people call them 'zöldpaprika' which is 'green pepper'. (I have to admit, that the Hungarian name of pepper/chile is paprika)
From its name and the pics you found on the internet you can see that these are consumpted in a light green stage. In the pepper growing industry we distinguish economic and biological ripeness. Economic ripeness is when the pepper ripe enough to go to the market, and to be eaten. In the case of the Rapires it is the light green stage. Biological ripeness is when the pepper seeds are viable, in our case it is when the pepper turns red.
To tell the truth, I have never seen any red pods from this type before. We usually use them as sandwich ingredient, and in some of our traditional dish, mostly which require some pepper flavour, and just a small amount of heat. Unfortunately I am not growing them this year, but I am curious to see, they will probably turn out to be good for even in pickles.
For the Kurtovska Kapija I'd check it with MisterNo, since he is from Croatia, just like the pepper.  (I'm also growing them, but this is my first year, only)
If you have questions you can always turn to me
Nice glog, anyways, beautiful pics, happy plants! Keep posting the pics, and we will give you bumps! :-)
 
Balázs

 

[BakersPeppers]

Nice harvests

 

[MGOLD86]

I'd say that is a great harvest man! Talk about the season getting to a full swing!

 

[WalkGood]

[SIZE=12pt]Excellent harvest Doc and Happy Fathers Day back at ya!!! The pods look awesome \o/[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]Side note about your statement of the yellow color, while I do not know your camera, it might be possible to correct the white balance there as that is more likely than the screen being far off. BTW you can also adjust the screen balance but that's not as easy and I'm not sure about all screens. If you shoot in RAW it's even easier to adjust the white balance. Hope that might be helpful ... take care and hope you have a great week![/SIZE]

 

[StupidJerk]

Awesome harvest! That's a crazy amount of peppers to have in June!

Happy Fathers Day.

 

[stc3248]

Party at Docs place everybody! Bring tomatoes and onions he'll bring the peppers...salsa time! 
 
Wow...what an amazing pull so early! I guess we should all start in November!!!

 

[MisterNo]

Thanks Rick!  I just might do that.  Have some questions about the Kurtovska Kapija, as well.  Those things get as big or bigger than Poblanos!

 
 
Hey Dock.
 
Yes, Kapija can get huge. From what I've seen they usually get about the same size as Poblanos or a bit bigger, 10 - 15 cm long, 4-7 cm wide with 4-6 mm thick flesh. One pod usually weights around 100 g, but first pods of the season can get significantly larger and heavier, up to 300 g.
 
They can be used green or red (fully mature), but people mostly use them red, they are more flavorful when ripe.
I personally don't like the taste of green Kapija pepper, I always pick them when they are fully ripe
 
They are mostly used for making Ajvar (delicious East European pepper relish), or you can fry, cook or roast them.
They are also great eaten fresh, because of their thick juicy meat.
 
If you have dehydrator  you can even try making some powder (it's hard to sun dry them because of the thick juicy flesh), I made some last year. It took me double amount of time to dry them (compared with other peppers), but I got some strong pepper flavor, with a smoky note .
 
If you have any more questions, feel free to ask

 

[DocNrock]

Another crazy busy week, and weekend!  This morning I've been trying to get caught up with all of the amazing glogs that I have been following and will reply to those kind postings above later this eveing or tomorrow AM.
 
Spent a couple of hours yesterday after work and another couple of hours this morning harvesting.  Didn't harvest anything this past week sans a pod or two to go with dinner.  Wanted to put this up before I started processing them.    I have decided larger pods go to the dehydrator for powder.  Smal pods get frozen to be used for hot sauce.  It's just too much work to clean the little guys for the dehydrator. 
 
 
 
From the top left:
 
Yellow Brain     PI281317      7 Pot Yellow     Peach Habanero     Korean Winner Hybrid
 
Goat Horn     Aji Amarillo     Fatalii     Anaheim     Yellow TSMB     Unknown annuum    Andy F1 Gochu     Devil's Tongue Red
 
Jalapeno    HP22B     Golden Cayenne     Dorset Naga     Peach Bhut     Malawi Peppadew     White Bullet Hab     C. chacoense
 
Serrano     Paprika     Aji Omnicolor     Aji Pineapple     7 Pot Brown     Datil     Unknown sweet chinense     Jamaican Yellow Mushroom     Hawaiian Sweet Hot     7 Pot Congo SR "Gigantic"
 
Chocolate Bhut     7 Pot "Orange"     Peter Pepper     Mystery Chocolate     Yellow Hablokia     Brain     Primo     Thai Dragon     Australian Lantern Hab     Bahamian Goat     Variegatta x ?
 
Pointed "Yellow" Hab     Fresno     Rapires F1     Black Stinger     "Chocolate" Hab     7 Pot Burgundy     Scotch Bonnet TFM     Aji Dulce     Naga Morich     Trin Scorp FG     Chinese 5-color
 
Beni Highland     7 Pot Chaguanas     Yellow Bhut     Trinidad Morova     Congo Red     Long Chocolate Hab     7 Pot Jonah     Jamaican Hot Chocolate     Chenzo
 
HP22B  doesn't look very Reaper-ish yet.  I haven't given up.  My Peach Bhut plant put out quite a few small smooth roundish pods, but the ones coming on the plant now look like Bhuts.  So we will see about the Reaper. 
 

 
Hope everyone is having a great weekend!  I have a lot more work to get done with daylight hours.  Hopefully will catch up on everyone else's glogs this evening or tomorrow morning. 

 

[HabaneroHead]

Hi Brent,
 
Incredible harvest! You are doing something more then right.
Make sure you save seeds from those varieties, as I'm sure everybody on this forum (including me) would be happy to trade some seeds with you.
By the way, have you tasted the Rapires F1 yet?
 
Balázs

 

[Devv]

WoooHoooo!!
 
Incredible harvest! And just the start!
 
Ain't it saweet! Really nice looking pods!
 
Good job Doc!

 

[Stefan_W]

Great looking harvest shots! I bought seeds for the burgundy 7s and they did not end up being planting this time around. How is the flavour compared to other 7 pods?