scovilles Dragon's breath...2.48m scovilles?

dennish said:
PS: Just ordered myself a Dragon's Breath plug plant from chillibobs, will get to see first hand what all the fuss is about.  
 
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I've sent a few messages and am hoping I hear back. I'm not interested in plants, since I'm already growing 2 record candidates and a little something special, but I've asked if I can try some of the pods themselves because I would like to know what all the hype is built on. That and I know that suffering is the easiest way to gain an audience.
 
 
The_NorthEast_ChileMan said:
Found this at Guinness World Records Hottest chili:

This record is based on the heat of a chili pepper.
This record is to be attempted by an individual, team or company.
This record is measured both in Scoville heat units (SHU) and in American Spice Trade Association pungency units, using high performance liquid chromatography. These units measure the concentration of capsaicin in the pepper.
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So nothing at all about the five year stability requirement I've heard so much of?
 
spicefreak said:
So nothing at all about the five year stability requirement I've heard so much of?
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That was one of the reasons I posted the link to the Popular Science article in post #54. In it there was was a statement by Jim Duffy criticizing the process used to bestow the title and mentioning the five and ten year grow outs. Makes me wonder if this has been extrapolated to say Guinness is using it even if there is no proof as they have the two independent accreditation's mentioned by DeWitt?
 
You might wonder if any of these pepper fiends has died. Not yet. When Warwick's labs rated Fowler's Naga Viper equivalent to the combined strength of some 250 jalapeños, pepper experts balked. Jim Duffy, a chili grower in San Diego, criticizes Guinness for bestowing the title on insufficiently authenticated fruits. Dave DeWitt, the founder of Chile Pepper magazine, author of 35 books about chilies and an adjunct professor at New Mexico State University, flatly dismisses the Guinness record as well. "This is science, and they are a beer company," he says, adding that test results should be corroborated by at least two labs. "With one test, the most you can show is that a single pepper--or a part of a single pepper--had that heat rating. To establish that a variety of pepper is consistently the world's hottest, you need more than that." Even Andrew Jukes, who conducted the pepper tests at Warwick on which Guinness based the Naga Viper and Infinity records, concurs: "I am surprised that all record values are not verified on additional samples in other labs. I've suggested to customers in the past that this would be required, but it seems that it is not."
 
Duffy also says that there is no way Fowler could have created his record pepper in such a short time. "It's a fairy tale," he says. "It's scientifically impossible. If you were going to try to create a new variety by cross-pollinating two varieties, it would take you five years. And the Naga Viper, which is a three-way hybrid? That would take you 10 to 12 years." DeWitt would like to see an independent certifying authority that takes the place of Guinness and requires at least two separate tests for each submission, maintaining a "totally scientific" list of the world's hottest peppers. Yet no matter how scientific that list might be, "heat" is quite difficult to measure.
 
juanitos said:
interesting stem structure on that plant. did they top it then burry the main stem? is it multiple plants?
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I have some plants that look exactly like this, topped early in their first season then buried deeper in larger pots for their second season. Actually gives you very sturdy plants and greatly reduces the need for staking. Each branch ends up looking like a main stem eventually.
 
So the rules above imply the Guinness record is hottest pepper tested, with no requirement to be stabalised.  I see the logic in DeWitt and Duffy's arguments, but if those are the rules... those are the rules - fair in a sense as they are applied the same to everyone.  
 
Guess the grey area is 'World Hottest Chilli' record holder doesn't necessarily equate to 'World's hottest Chilli variety', as an unstable hybrid or one off isn't necessarily a variety in it's own right unless grown over the requisite number of generations to achieve stability and consistency in heat levels.
 
Anyway, doing my bit to stoke the hype / fall foul of the marketing... my plug arrived today, will keep you posted on how it turns out.  Quite a few UK growers in other FB chilli groups I am in also have them, so we'll see how they turn out.
 
dennish said:
So the rules above imply the Guinness record is hottest pepper tested, with no requirement to be stabalised.  I see the logic in DeWitt and Duffy's arguments, but if those are the rules... those are the rules - fair in a sense as they are applied the same to everyone.  
 
Guess the grey area is 'World Hottest Chilli' record holder doesn't necessarily equate to 'World's hottest Chilli variety', as an unstable hybrid or one off isn't necessarily a variety in it's own right unless grown over the requisite number of generations to achieve stability and consistency in heat levels.
 
Anyway, doing my bit to stoke the hype / fall foul of the marketing... my plug arrived today, will keep you posted on how it turns out.  Quite a few UK growers in other FB chilli groups I am in also have them, so we'll see how they turn out.
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Looking forward to following this Dennis. You should start a Glog just for this plant or add it to your current glog.
 
I forget which two variety gave Guinness the one two punch.  Maybe naga viper was one of them.  Before they changed their rules, there was one that only held the crown for a couple weeks.  I think they wanted to slow things down a bit. 
 
AJ Drew said:
I forget which two variety gave Guinness the one two punch.  Maybe naga viper was one of them.  Before they changed their rules, there was one that only held the crown for a couple weeks.  I think they wanted to slow things down a bit. 
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Wasn't it the Infinity Pepper and Naga Viper which topped each other in quick succession?
 
Would live to know what the Guinness record rules are... if there is anything further than published above?
 
dennish said:
 
Wasn't it the Infinity Pepper and Naga Viper which topped each other in quick succession?
 
Would live to know what the Guinness record rules are... if there is anything further than published above?
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That's what the various articles here have been saying, though that surprises me as I thought that the original strain of Trinidad Scorpion held the record at some point between the two.
 
I've also heard rumours that what finally pushed things over the edge was one random, highly tourtured mutant Viper reported scored over 3 million but, I've seen no definitive record of that claim, let alone any indication that the unique pepper in question was real and, even if it was, the variety never produced anything remotely like it again.
 
spicefreak said:
 
I've also heard rumours that what finally pushed things over the edge was one random, highly tourtured mutant Viper reported scored over 3 million but, I've seen no definitive record of that claim, let alone any indication that the unique pepper in question was real and, even if it was, the variety never produced anything remotely like it again.
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That is the part that I love, the growing (torturing) and mutants.  Father in-law thought injecting milk into the stem of his giant tomato would make it bigger.  I think it was Nigel from Hippie Seed that said worm juice / run off from worm farm makes peppers hotter.  I am not sure if it really works, but I say duck and fish poop scraped from the bottom of a pond makes for good peppers. 

Guinness averages to see which variety is hotter.  I would love a competition where each year it is more like a state fair.  We are showing at our state fair.  Kind of nervous actually.  But nobody tastes a thing.  Even jelly, jam, and pies are all graded by the looks of things.  I think it would be great to see judges try to eat peppers and decide which is hottest.  No, not exactly scientific but oh how fun that would be to watch.  I know, I am a hick.  I also enjoy rooting for my neighbor in the tractor pull.

So you contacted Chilli Bob.  Someone else says they bought plants.  Is there an online store and any clue why seeds arent for sale?  I really want to grow the thing cause it looks all sneaky hot.  Like the pepper in Thia food.


 
 
As far as I know, the plants themselves are only supposed to be on sale at the upcoming east midlands chilli fest that chillibobs are running, presumably as some kind of return favour for overwintering them on Mike's behalf. Where dennish got his plants I do not know.
I have not heard anything back from either Chillibobs or Tim Smith's myself but, given that it's the garden show this week, that hardly seems surprising.
 
I feel as though it might be worth having "hottest chilli" and "hottest strain" records because good growing and good seed stock certainly aren't the same thing. That reverse chilli eating competition would be kind of fun.
 
"We make it a rule to taste every new type of chilli that we grow. As soon as we tried Dragon’s Breath we knew it was hot!"
 
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I think there's a lot of very poor reporting going on at the moment by a number of sources.  I'm friends with Neal and Chilli Bob Price on FB and they have been pretty consistent with their story... they have never mentioned a low heat version and have stated the SHU results achieved so far and that Guinness and DNA testing is underway.  Reading between the lines, I think they have chanced across this strain as opposed to consciously creating it - just my hunch, not confirmed.
 
My Plug arrived, has been potted on and is now looking a bit perkier following 24hrs in the post, and I am confident I'll have pods this year.  Neal Price and Chilli Bob Price are on FB and if you contact them directly and are in the UK, they currently have plug plants for sale.
 
This could yet still be a publicity stunt, or we could have a new contender on our hands... despite all the speculation and hype, only time will tell. 
 
dennish said:
This could yet still be a publicity stunt, or we could have a new contender on our hands... despite all the speculation and hype, only time will tell. 
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People said Pepper Joe was pulling a publicity stunt with Carolina Reaper.  It i now the Guinness title holder.  I dont think promotion is a bad thing.  So far, everyone involved just seems seems like nice folk who came up with something.  On the media, oh damn they can screw a thing up.

So where did you buy your plug?  I can not find a thing online.
 
 
spicefreak said:
I feel as though it might be worth having "hottest chilli" and "hottest strain" records because good growing and good seed stock certainly aren't the same thing. That reverse chilli eating competition would be kind of fun.
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Excellent too cause some folk just want to put seeds in the ground and grow something hot.  Like the giant pumpkin seeds at the store.  I kind of doubt we will ever see competition based on taste because here they dont even eat the pie at pie contests.  It is really sad.  I guess I have seen contests judged by taste at church events, but no longer at fairs.
 
 
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