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heat Extraction gone wrong?

HellfireFarm

HellfireFarm

I recently tried an experiment in extraction and concentration. I used 150-proof ethanol for the extraction, with a mix of ghosts and reapers. I then set it out in shallow dishes for the alcohol to evaporate. Pretty much following the directions I've seen anywhere online.

I ended up with a thick dark red liquidy substance, but there doesn't seem to be much heat. Definitely NOT the sort of heat I would expect if this were actually concentrated capsaicin. I'm pretty sure I failed in my attempt but I'm wondering where I might have gone wrong? Maybe leaving it out was the mistake instead of a controlled evaporation?


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First 150 proof is too weak to properly extract capsaicin 25% water is too much for such a nonpolar compound. 90-94% ethanol shouldn't be too hard to find. Other variables of interest is your grind (The finer the powder the better the extraction), temperature (extraction will be much faster at higher temp, but keep in mind ethanol boils at 64°c and is very flammable) and time of maceration.
 
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Gambleu said:
First 150 proof is too weak to properly extract capsaicin 25% water is too much for such a nonpolar compound. 90-94% ethanol shouldn't be too hard to find. Other variables of interest is your grind (The finer the powder the better the extraction), temperature (extraction will be much faster at higher temp, but keep in mind ethanol boils at 64°c and is very flammable) and time of maceration.
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150 proof is the highest they sell here in NC, unless I look for lab supplies (maybe).

I did this with two batches, using acetone on the other batch, and it turned out the same.

The liquid, before evaporation, was crazy hot. (obviously I didn't taste the acetone one!). It's like all the capsaicin went away!
 
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Try diluting your extract back with a little alcohol it should be hot as hell again.

Your crude extract is full of waxes and oils and other shit. Those are probably preventing capsaicin from interacting with your receptors
 
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DontPanic said:
Be very careful with lab grade ethanol.

Some types of lab grade alcohol are tainted with a small amount of something that makes it un-drinkable, and it allows them to sell it without all the taxes that are heaped on drinkable alcohols.

Usually, this is called de-natured alcohol.
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Most lab grade ethanol is not denatured, because denaturants can screw reactions and/or end up in extracted product wich would scew analysis. It is normally clearly written if it is denatured or not.

Problem with lab grade undenatured ethanol is they don't sell it like that to anybody. In fact a small lab where i used to work would buy everclear even if it cost 10x the price because it was much less complicated than buying tax free lab ethanol even if they had licenses and they rarely used it anyway. I'm in canada though but i think U.S. alcohol laws are generally harsher.

The other problem is with 100% ethanol. It exists but it has to be distilled with benzene in order to bypass azeotropic point and you can never totally remove it. Benzene is carcinogenic af and you certainly don't want to drink anything with even traces in it.
 
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Downriver said:
They don't sell Everclear 190 in NC? Shoot up to VA. We sell all kinds a sh!t that will hurt ya.
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Lots of things they don't sell in NC. The state runs all alcohol distribution. Didn't know that about VA though, I'm only an hour's drive from Emporia.

Yeah, I know better than to get denatured!
Gambleu said:
Try diluting your extract back with a little alcohol it should be hot as hell again.

Your crude extract is full of waxes and oils and other shit. Those are probably preventing capsaicin from interacting with your receptors
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That's about what I was thinking.

How do you clean that up to get a more pure end product?
 
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Short answer : purifying it further will be very complicated and yield will be VERY low. Working on making a better extraction is your best bet.

Type 'nile red capsaicin' on youtube. You will find many clues there. Basically water is your worst enemy in this fight.

Acetone would be a good almost anhydrous solvent but do not use hardware store acetone if you intend to eat your extract, it is full of harmfull impurities.

Residual acetone in your extract won't be a concern since you will ingest only a tiny amount at a time. You probably have more acetone in your body right now than the amount you will ingest that way (Yes we all have a tiny amount of acetone in our bodies it is a product of some biological reactions).
 
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Gambleu said:
Short answer : purifying it further will be very complicated and yield will be VERY low. Working on making a better extraction is your best bet.

Type 'nile red capsaicin' on youtube. You will find many clues there. Basically water is your worst enemy in this fight.

Acetone would be a good almost anhydrous solvent but do not use hardware store acetone if you intend to eat your extract, it is full of harmfull impurities.

Residual acetone in your extract won't be a concern since you will ingest only a tiny amount at a time. You probably have more acetone in your body right now than the amount you will ingest that way (Yes we all have a tiny amount of acetone in our bodies it is a product of some biological reactions).
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I make my own vinegar, got it on the acetone :) Thanks for the reminder.
I'm wondering if those impurities are what messed up the acetone extraction? It's not really any better.

I'll definitely head to VA for some 190 proof for the next attempt. Thanks for the tips, I'll check it out!
 
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Has anyone tried an acid base extraction?
Seems that would result in much more pure capsaicin than going straight to ethanol or acetone.
Not that I see the point beyond for the sake of doing it. Bear spray is cheap.
 
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