I just processed my second fermented sauce containing jalapenos/red habs, onion, carrot, garlic. I put 2 large potatoes in the pot, and simmered it all for 45 minutes. I added some lime juice and vinegar. Still, a salt bomb. I can see where adding a bunch of fruit could minimize the saltiness, but what if you don't want a fruity sauce?
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fermenting Fermented Sauces...Too Salty
- Thread starter Roguejim
- Start date
wayright said:
or honey or agave nectar - balance the salt with sweet and/or sour - all good sauces are am amalgam of the hot/salty/sour/sweet profile. I just started processing a ferment from the garden that's been going since the end of August. Alone, straight from the jar it's VERY salty and a tad bitter (not sour but bitter - must've been the mix of peppers I used). Now it's gone through the food mill and I will balance and cook down/blend bottle. Rarely will any ferment come out 'bottle ready'; most all of them will need some balancing prior to bottling. Don't give up RJ, you'll find the sweet spot.
Margarita,,etc..
Lots and lots of distilled white vinegar. I think Tabasco only ingredient are peppers, salt, and vinegar and they use vinegar 3:1 after fermenting the peppers for 3 year in a salt cave. I like tequila with a shot of Grand Marnier in some fresh squeezed lime juice, salt on the rim please.
people shy away from vinegar but it cuts down the salty and sugar adds balance to your hot sauce. I prefer coconut sugar or cane sugar and white vinegar.Pepper Ridge Farm said:
I was told 3.6% by weight, so, that's what I used. Now, I'm wondering where that figure came from.Jeff H said:
I'd oughfully surprised if it was only 3:1 Cappy. As thin and weak as Tabasco is, seems like it should be 20:1/
RJ, how much salt did you use in the 1st place? Maybe cutting it down next time might help.
I did some searching on youtube under "fermenting vegetables", and came across this "Sandor Katz", who has several videos. He says to add salt to taste when fermenting vegetables, and this is without using a starter.
http://www.wildfermentation.com/
A little vinegar really did the trick with my ferments. You can always add a little bit of tomato or I had some peaches that were not very sweet that I used in a fermented sauce. My salt brine was 5% and the sauce didn't end up being salty.
Downriver
eXtreme
I agree with SnF, it's all about balance of tastes; they should compliment each other without one overpowering the others. In this case, salt has decided to kick ass.
Since its already been heated, the LAB are dead. So, adding more ingredient(s) and continuing the ferment is not really an option. Also, I don't think there's an effective way to remove the salt. Some say to do the potato thing, some say it's a myth. Your experience says myth, so I'll go with that lol.
One thing you could do is can it and use it as a base in future kitchen endeavors, a la AJ's Puree.
Or, try to bring the salty flavor back in balance with the other flavors. You can do this by diluting (increasing overall volume) and/or by increasing other flavors. To increase volume, just add more fruits, veggies, etc. To "cover up" the saltiness, add acid (lemon, vinegar, zest, tomatoes, etc) or sweet (fruit, carrots, honey, sugar, etc). Or, any combination. Of course, the more you add, the further away you might get from classic “fermented peppers” and into more of a blended, balanced product. Personally, that's the place I like to be.
Jm2c
Good luck with it. Let us know what you do.
Since its already been heated, the LAB are dead. So, adding more ingredient(s) and continuing the ferment is not really an option. Also, I don't think there's an effective way to remove the salt. Some say to do the potato thing, some say it's a myth. Your experience says myth, so I'll go with that lol.
One thing you could do is can it and use it as a base in future kitchen endeavors, a la AJ's Puree.
Or, try to bring the salty flavor back in balance with the other flavors. You can do this by diluting (increasing overall volume) and/or by increasing other flavors. To increase volume, just add more fruits, veggies, etc. To "cover up" the saltiness, add acid (lemon, vinegar, zest, tomatoes, etc) or sweet (fruit, carrots, honey, sugar, etc). Or, any combination. Of course, the more you add, the further away you might get from classic “fermented peppers” and into more of a blended, balanced product. Personally, that's the place I like to be.
Jm2c
Good luck with it. Let us know what you do.
Well, I'll probably just use it sparingly with certain foods. The other problem is I already have another different batch that is also salty, so, I just may end up dumping both. Next ferment, I will use a lot less salt. I do want to make at least 1 classic, fruit-free fermented pepper sauce.DownRiver said:
EDIT: I would still like to know how that Sandor Katz gets away with using so little salt.
Downriver
eXtreme
The short answer is Sandor is not afraid of mold lol.
Sandor is an interesting guy. In my conversations with him, I got the impression he "hedges his bet" a lot by “seeding” new, from scratch ferments with some old, active ferment juice/product. Also, a lot of his ferments include cabbage, which contains a higher concentration of LAB to start with, more than other fruits/veggies. And, a lot of his ferments are ongoing, like his pickles.
He tells a story about his pickle barrel in the basement. Whenever he needs to add cucumbers or remove pickles, he has to dig through or scrape off a solid layer of healthy mold. He says mold is not necessarily bad. Can't say I agree with him.
Sandor is an interesting guy. In my conversations with him, I got the impression he "hedges his bet" a lot by “seeding” new, from scratch ferments with some old, active ferment juice/product. Also, a lot of his ferments include cabbage, which contains a higher concentration of LAB to start with, more than other fruits/veggies. And, a lot of his ferments are ongoing, like his pickles.
He tells a story about his pickle barrel in the basement. Whenever he needs to add cucumbers or remove pickles, he has to dig through or scrape off a solid layer of healthy mold. He says mold is not necessarily bad. Can't say I agree with him.
Downriver
eXtreme
RJ, here's another guys' opinion on measuring and using salt.
http://fermentationrecipes.com/using-measuring-salt-fermentations/1014
Just an fyi.
http://fermentationrecipes.com/using-measuring-salt-fermentations/1014
Just an fyi.
Thanks. I'm not giving up, yet.DownRiver said:
Looking at this guy's chart (correct me if I'm wrong), if I have a 32oz jar ~3/4 filled with the mash, and I only need 2 cups of brine to cover, then I would need 1.25 TBS of salt(24 grams). If that's correct, I think I've been over salting.
Sandor is a trip. He plays a lil fast and loose with ferments for my tastes, but I don't begrudge him any of his success. He's still here despite his indifference to salt and toleration of mold, and he's put out several books that I still refer to when fermenting vegetables. It's him (and other users of this forum) who got me 'seeding' ferments with touches of previous ferments after all. Plus some of the links on his website are truly unique. Like unique in a way I find completely comical and wondrous.
I use 4% salt by weight in every fermented pepper mash I make, in addition to cabbage 'caps' at the tops of the jars. This is more than I technically 'need', and does indeed result in a salty finished mash, but I don't mind as the extra salinity provides some insurance against nasties. I then take that finished fermented mash and balance with various measures of acid (vinegar, lemon juice, etc) and sweetener (honey, agave, sugar) to achieve my final product prior to bottling. At the end of the day you work with what's given you the best results. Dialing back the salt and bridging the gap with some starter might be the path for you RJ. Rocketman's posts are a wealth of just such info.
I use 4% salt by weight in every fermented pepper mash I make, in addition to cabbage 'caps' at the tops of the jars. This is more than I technically 'need', and does indeed result in a salty finished mash, but I don't mind as the extra salinity provides some insurance against nasties. I then take that finished fermented mash and balance with various measures of acid (vinegar, lemon juice, etc) and sweetener (honey, agave, sugar) to achieve my final product prior to bottling. At the end of the day you work with what's given you the best results. Dialing back the salt and bridging the gap with some starter might be the path for you RJ. Rocketman's posts are a wealth of just such info.
Thanks, ralphster. Can you comment on the post right above yours? I want to make sure I'm understanding the info in the link.SmokenFire said:Sandor is a trip. He plays a lil fast and loose with ferments for my tastes, but I don't begrudge him any of his success. He's still here despite his indifference to salt and toleration of mold, and he's put out several books that I still refer to when fermenting vegetables. It's him (and other users of this forum) who got me 'seeding' ferments with touches of previous ferments after all. Plus some of the links on his website are truly unique. Like unique in a way I find completely comical and wondrous.
I use 4% salt by weight in every fermented pepper mash I make, in addition to cabbage 'caps' at the tops of the jars. This is more than I technically 'need', and does indeed result in a salty finished mash, but I don't mind as the extra salinity provides some insurance against nasties. I then take that finished fermented mash and balance with various measures of acid (vinegar, lemon juice, etc) and sweetener (honey, agave, sugar) to achieve my final product prior to bottling. At the end of the day you work with what's given you the best results. Dialing back the salt and bridging the gap with some starter might be the path for you RJ. Rocketman's posts are a wealth of just such info.
Roguejim said:
I've made the fermented salsa from the 'fermentation recipes' page with good results.
Regarding your question, It's hard for me to ascertain your line of thinking. EXP: Are you thinking you'll make your mash with no salt at all and then cover it with a brine at X salt percentage? If so I can't speak to its safety or likely results as I have no experience with it. IF you're talking about topping an existing or future ferment that has *some* salt in it with a brine (which I have done) then you're safe with 2% brine imo. By 2% I mean about 10 grams of salt per 2 cups of water.
The author on that site talks about 'dry brining' - using salt mixed in with the mash - which is what I do for pepper mashes. For cucumber/carrot/etc pickles I use the 'brining' method he describes. I don't really use the 'pre brining' or 'buoyancy bringing' methods he describes. Hope that helps!