Fermenting garden veggies

Rairdog · Apr 7, 2015

I was just wondering what all can be fermented. I like to use what I have growing and want to avoid running around looking for stuff or ordering online.

Here is a list of what I am growing for the season and plan to ferment in different combinations.

Napa cabbage
Pak Choi
Carrots
Radish
Cucumbers
Green tomatos
Onions
Green beans
Peppers
Kolrabi
Kale, Chard and Spinach ?

Berries - Goji, rasberry, gooseberry, kiwi ?

Corriander
Mustard seed
Dill
Basil
Lime basil
Parsely
Thyme
Cummin

I will purchase daikon, ginger and a few items if needed. I have found many different recipes and there seems to be no rules. It is just a matter of making it traditionally. I have some crocks and glass square jars with rubber gasket lids which can be loose fitted.

Can I skip the fish sauce for kimchi?
What about recipes that call for apple/pear. Can honey or sugar be substituted?
Is litmus paper ok to check ph for now?

I want start experimenting to be prepared for pepper harvest. The goal is to use stuff when it's ready to harvest and dry/freeze stuff for later use.

Bluesman · Apr 7, 2015

Hi! You can ferment all the stuff you grow. Beans have to be precooked and must have a starter before the process begins.
The original Kimchi recipe has fish sauce for the flavor and for the salt that is required. You can have sea salt as a substitute.
I have fermented also mushrooms but they need some helper (cabbage, onion, carrots) before anything happens.

The latest batch has the ingredients that you can see. The frozen vacuumpackage is C.chinense Tobago sweet, little less than a kilo.
Happy fermenting!

oldsalty · Apr 7, 2015

Wow very nice!!!
You're on your way to fermentation heaven!!

How much have you done you can do kimchi,sauerkraut,pepper sauces lots of great ingredients just need to determine what kind of ferments you want.

Check out fermenting 101 you'll find all your answers and more. I have many great recipes I'd be happy to share with you!

Just check out stickman's recipes for kimchi he really rocks !!! SmokenFire is very knowledgeable about many facets of fermentation sure he'd be glad to help!

were all here for you my friend just let us know what you want to do.

CHEERS

Rairdog · Apr 7, 2015

Bluesman said:
Hi! You can ferment all the stuff you grow. Beans have to be precooked and must have a starter before the process begins.
The original Kimchi recipe has fish sauce for the flavor and for the salt that is required. You can have sea salt as a substitute.
I have fermented also mushrooms but they need some helper (cabbage, onion, carrots) before anything happens.

The latest batch has the ingredients that you can see. The frozen vacuumpackage is C.chinense Tobago sweet, little less than a kilo.
Happy fermenting!

Thanks for the tip about green beans. Okra is problably the same. Makes sense. They are harder to break down and don't hold as much water.

oldsalty said:
Wow very nice!!!
You're on your way to fermentation heaven!! How much have you done you can do kimchi,sauerkraut,pepper sauces lots of great ingredients just need to determine what kind of ferments you want. Check out fermenting 101 you'll find all your answers and more. I have many great recipes I'd be happy to share with you!
Just check out stickman's recipes for kimchi he really rocks !!! SmokenFire is very knowledgeable about many facets of fermentation sure he'd be glad to help! were all here for you my friend just let us know what you want to do.
CHEERS

I have checked out Stickmans kimchi....that's what got me starting. Then I read about cucumbers and bak choi so I started to research different veggies that I normally grow. Checked out 101 also. I just wasn't sure if there were bad combinations or stuff that shouldn't be fermented. I have some hot garlic kraut with diakon going now and have done sourdough for years. I just read the kosher salt has Prussiate of Soda anti-caking so I need to get pure salt. I have done vinegar pickles and try to grow most all the pickling spices. I will try fermenting them this year. I'm trying to get a grasp on what all can be fermented and timing of harvest. After reading, I guess freezing and drying are ok since not everything is ripe for the list of ingredients needed at the same time.

oldsalty · Apr 7, 2015

Fantastic!!! Seems like you've done your research!!

loved to see some pics. I also do pickles but fermented wife goes crazy lots of garlic and mustard seed. I really like the fact you grow your pickling spices and a really nice grow list!! Look forward to your future post Rairdog and post some pics !!!!

CHEERS

salsalady · Apr 8, 2015

just a little clarification here-

there's fermentations for things like kraut and kimchee, and pepper fermentations.

There a LOT of overlapping in methods etc, but they are 2 different things. Priobiotic fermentations (like kimchee, kraut and such) are done for the live "good bugs" that grow, they are kept cold, not processed with heat, the GoodBugs stay alive in the product. The goods are eaten cold and live with all the probiotic stuff still happening.

The other Fermentation method commonly used is to ferment chiles and whatever else, Cook And Hot Pack the sauce (which kills all the naturally occuring bacterias in the fermentation process, but does allow the FLAVOR of that process to stay in the sauce.

Rairdog · Apr 8, 2015

salsalady said:
just a little clarification here-

there's fermentations for things like kraut and kimchee, and pepper fermentations.

There a LOT of overlapping in methods etc, but they are 2 different things. Priobiotic fermentations (like kimchee, kraut and such) are done for the live "good bugs" that grow, they are kept cold, not processed with heat, the GoodBugs stay alive in the product. The goods are eaten cold and live with all the probiotic stuff still happening.

The other Fermentation method commonly used is to ferment chiles and whatever else, Cook And Hot Pack the sauce (which kills all the naturally occuring bacterias in the fermentation process, but does allow the FLAVOR of that process to stay in the sauce.

That makes sense. I'm just trying to look at it from a typical garden year and when things are ready to harvest without running to the store to get what I don't have for a recipe. I have a spring crop of radish, napa cabbage, kolrabi, bak choi and other cool weather crops. They are high in water content and react well with salt to make the liquid and "goodbugs" The cucumbers, carrots and others aren't ready for harvest when the latter are done. The dill, peppers and others don't match up with the harvest for what they are added to for flavor.

I may have a berry crop that comes in with peppers. It's more about matching the season with what's growing and available. What's not available can be dried/frozen. Either way I want to have options besides running to the store to follow some recipe.

oldsalty · Apr 8, 2015

Rairdog said:
I was just wondering what all can be fermented. I like to use what I have growing and want to avoid running around looking for stuff or ordering online.

Here is a list of what I am growing for the season and plan to ferment in different combinations.

Napa cabbage
Pak Choi
Carrots
Radish
Cucumbers
Green tomatos
Onions
Green beans
Peppers
Kolrabi
Kale, Chard and Spinach ?

Berries - Goji, rasberry, gooseberry, kiwi ?

Corriander
Mustard seed
Dill
Basil
Lime basil
Parsely
Thyme
Cummin
I will purchase daikon, ginger and a few items if needed. I have found many different recipes and there seems to be no rules. It is just a matter of making it traditionally. I have some crocks and glass square jars with rubber gasket lids which can be loose fitted.

Can I skip the fish sauce for kimchi?
What about recipes that call for apple/pear. Can honey or sugar be substituted?
Is litmus paper ok to check ph for now?

I want start experimenting to be prepared for pepper harvest. The goal is to use stuff when it's ready to harvest and dry/freeze stuff for later use.

Ok you can ferment almost anything as long as there is enough sugar for the labs to consume.
You don't have to follow any particular recipe for kimchi just stay close to the basic guidelines if your not a fan of fish sauce don't add.
Any sugar sources will work but won't add sweetness to the final product as the labs will devour the sugars.
Most of your veg like carrots and Apple have enough sugar in them to start the process. You can add sugar like honey or liquid sugars like agave or sugar in the raw but you need enough veg for the fermentation. I usually add sweetener like honey to the finished product during final process.
All depends on what you want to ferment.
Litmus paper will work but I would recommend purchasing a ph meter as the are fairly cheap. Definitely worth the expense. For the peace of mind.
I often freeze my excess peppers to use in ferments later frozen will make peppers soft to mushy but matters not to fermentation process.
Salsalady is spot on as usual!!

while both products start the same way the finished product is processed differently the kimchi or kraut like pickles are ready right from the crock. But your fermented sauces should be heat processed to kill off active cultures or your bottles of sauce will be explosive!!!
You can keep fermented sauce in fridge and take right from jar this is unprocessed so you retain the macrobiotic benefits.
As far as containers I use open crock method for pickles and kraut/kimchi but for fermenting peppers or any other veg that requires making a mash I prefer the 1/2 gallon ball jars with plastic lids and an airlock there are many schools of thought on subject but I use this method without a hitch so far!!
For starters I use whitelab starter but many members use sourdough starter,or active labs from kimchi/kraut
Or the lab in pill form. All work well.
Just have fun you'll find that many things work well together just what you looking for as far as flavor profile. Experiment I've yet to make a ferment I didn't like whether you use as is or a base for other ingredients. Just practice practice practice and get ready for a house filled with ferments my place looks like a mad scientist laboratory!! Haha haha. Hope this helps.
CHEERS

Wicked Mike · Apr 26, 2015

Just my two cents, but I'd make wine with the berries, if you grow enough of them. I do it with my passionfruit, and it's the bomb.

oldsalty · Apr 29, 2015

Wicked Mike said:
Just my two cents, but I'd make wine with the berries, if you grow enough of them. I do it with my passionfruit, and it's the bomb.

Passionfruit chop top take spoon scoop and eat!!!!! Thanks Mike!

salsalady · Apr 29, 2015

one other note- I took a class in March from a local lady who's been fermenting kimcee-type things for years and working on going commercial. She said the only thing that didn't ferment well was cucumber. Said it just turned to slime instead of keeping that nice crunch like most other veggies.

Wicked Mike · Apr 29, 2015

salsalady said:
one other note- I took a class in March from a local lady who's been fermenting kimcee-type things for years and working on going commercial. She said the only thing that didn't ferment well was cucumber. Said it just turned to slime instead of keeping that nice crunch like most other veggies.

I can verify this.I suspect it has a lot to do with the variety used.

oldsalty said:
Passionfruit chop top take spoon scoop and eat!!!!! Thanks Mike!

Lol...good, aren't they?

Rairdog · Apr 30, 2015

salsalady said:
one other note- I took a class in March from a local lady who's been fermenting kimcee-type things for years and working on going commercial. She said the only thing that didn't ferment well was cucumber. Said it just turned to slime instead of keeping that nice crunch like most other veggies.

I would think the first pickles made were fermented. I have yet to try them. I know from a vinager hot pack that cutting off blossom end and adding grape or oak leaves help.

Wicked Mike said:
Just my two cents, but I'd make wine with the berries, if you grow enough of them. I do it with my passionfruit, and it's the bomb.

I am a long way off from having enough berries to make wine....it's on the list. I was reading about kiwi added to hot sauce ferments. That seemed like a good combo. I wish my zone would allow passionfruit.

Rairdog · Jul 22, 2015

I have been fermenting pepperocini's but they have a slight bitter taste. I have been using a 2 cup water/2 TBS vinegar/1 TBS salt ratio. I slipped in some serrano's and they are perfect with no bitter after taste so I figure it's the pepperocini's. They have a slight bitter taste raw.

Using that same ratio I decided to do some cucumber's, serrano's and onions since that is what's ready to harvest. For the spice's I used dill sprigs, coriander, grape leaves and mustard seed from the garden. I also added store bought peppercorn's and garlic since mine drowned.

I have seen this same water to salt ration on a few websites. Some use vinegar and some don't. Since I have high ph well water, I figure it's better to use the vinegar to knock the ph down. I have not bought a ph meter or air locks yet. I just fill in to the brim with lid on loosely and let it spill over. It's not the same tangy flavor as my normal refrigerator pickles but it it much less salt and vinegar. Maybe I should try adding some lemon juice/zest or bump up the vinegar?

oldsalty · Jul 24, 2015

salsalady said:
one other note- I took a class in March from a local lady who's been fermenting kimcee-type things for years and working on going commercial. She said the only thing that didn't ferment well was cucumber. Said it just turned to slime instead of keeping that nice crunch like most other veggies.

The trick with cucumber is to keep your fermentation time minimal no more than 12 days then process to hot pack or to keep the good bacteria place in fridge I make awesome dills using this method must be whole to ferment.

Rairdog said:
I have been fermenting pepperocini's but they have a slight bitter taste. I have been using a 2 cup water/2 TBS vinegar/1 TBS salt ratio. I slipped in some serrano's and they are perfect with no bitter after taste so I figure it's the pepperocini's. They have a slight bitter taste raw.

Using that same ratio I decided to do some cucumber's, serrano's and onions since that is what's ready to harvest. For the spice's I used dill sprigs, coriander, grape leaves and mustard seed from the garden. I also added store bought peppercorn's and garlic since mine drowned.

I have seen this same water to salt ration on a few websites. Some use vinegar and some don't. Since I have high ph well water, I figure it's better to use the vinegar to knock the ph down. I have not bought a ph meter or air locks yet. I just fill in to the brim with lid on loosely and let it spill over. It's not the same tangy flavor as my normal refrigerator pickles but it it much less salt and vinegar. Maybe I should try adding some lemon juice/zest or bump up the vinegar?

I've never seen a ferment using vinegar seems counter productive since the sour is coming from the fermentation process.

Bluesman · Aug 1, 2015

Fermenting cucumbers is a bit tricky. If you´ve ever eaten a russian dinner, there is always fermented salty cucumbers served.
I use russian varieties and ferment them when small and solid, max 12 cm long and 4 cm thick.
My recipes include cucumber, brushed and soaked in cold water overnight. Next day I put in a 10 liter plastic bucket layers of cucumbers (whole, not sliced), flowering dill, mustard seeds, blackcurrant and oak and cherry leaves, garlic, onion, horseradish pieces and salt 2%. Fill the bucket with cooked and cooled water. I put a ceramic plate to keep all the stuff under water. Then the bucket´s own plastic lid on but not very tight. Keep in +20C for 3 days. The fermentation is very rapid and if you leave it in +20C for a week it surely is mushy. You can measure the pH on the 3rd day and it should be 4,1 or less. Sometimes it goes slower and the pH is 5 but it goes down in most cases. Tighten the lid and put in a cool place (+4-6C) for a month. Enjoy!

oldsalty · Aug 2, 2015

Bluesman said:
Fermenting cucumbers is a bit tricky. If you´ve ever eaten a russian dinner, there is always fermented salty cucumbers served.
I use russian varieties and ferment them when small and solid, max 12 cm long and 4 cm thick.
My recipes include cucumber, brushed and soaked in cold water overnight. Next day I put in a 10 liter plastic bucket layers of cucumbers (whole, not sliced), flowering dill, mustard seeds, blackcurrant and oak and cherry leaves, garlic, onion, horseradish pieces and salt 2%. Fill the bucket with cooked and cooled water. I put a ceramic plate to keep all the stuff under water. Then the bucket´s own plastic lid on but not very tight. Keep in +20C for 3 days. The fermentation is very rapid and if you leave it in +20C for a week it surely is mushy. You can measure the pH on the 3rd day and it should be 4,1 or less. Sometimes it goes slower and the pH is 5 but it goes down in most cases. Tighten the lid and put in a cool place (+4-6C) for a month. Enjoy!

Hi Bluesman very informative thanks!!

from the time I start the fermenting process my pickles have taken anywhere from one week to 12 days. I use grape leaves for the tannins, is this the reason you use oak and cherry leaves? Is this to help pickles stay firm?
Cheers

Bluesman · Aug 2, 2015

oldsalty said:
Hi Bluesman very informative thanks!! from the time I start the fermenting process my pickles have taken anywhere from one week to 12 days. I use grape leaves for the tannins, is this the reason you use oak and cherry leaves? Is this to help pickles stay firm?
Cheers

Well I use these leaves just for the taste. The idea comes from Estonia. Of course I forgot that I put in also chili. Normally mildish baccas but also one bucket/season with Naga.
Milder sorts that I use are Omnicolor, Aji cristal, Inca red drop and CAP220. The smaller your cucumbers are the better and firmer the end result is gonna be.

oldsalty · Aug 2, 2015

Bluesman said:
Well I use these leaves just for the taste. The idea comes from Estonia. Of course I forgot that I put in also chili. Normally mildish baccas but also one bucket/season with Naga.
Milder sorts that I use are Omnicolor, Aji cristal, Inca red drop and CAP220. The smaller your cucumbers are the better and firmer the end result is gonna be.

I grow Boston cukes great for pickling. Make mixed batches as well lots of friends and family love them just no chilies hahaha but I love them spicy!! Never heard of using the black currant and cherry leaves. Is there a significant flavor advantage to using these,
what kind of taste do they impart?

Bluesman · Aug 2, 2015

oldsalty said:
I grow Boston cukes great for pickling. Make mixed batches as well lots of friends and family love them just no chilies hahaha but I love them spicy!! Never heard of using the black currant and cherry leaves. Is there a significant flavor advantage to using these,
what kind of taste do they impart?

Blackcurrant leaves are very aromatic. Rub a leaf and smell the odor.Hard to find replacement. Cherry isn´t as strong but good in use.