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tutorial Fermenting Peppers 101
- Thread starter RocketMan
- Start date
So I'm a few days into my ferment now. I had used 1 litre mason jars, and I didn't have any airlocks so I left the lids a tad loose so they could vent. I've read that a white yeast on top is not unusual, and to just skim it off at the end of the ferment. Today I thought I saw a little white in a couple jars so I tightened the lid and swirled the jar a bit to coat the top and sides with fresh brine and acid to hopefully slow/stop any yeast. I then reloosened the lid. Do you think it's ok to do this or should I just be leaving them alone?
Just curious. How would you all describe the smell of proper lacto-fermenting peppers? Ive searched and read through tons of posts, but mostly people just say "it smells...lacto-fermented". From the gases venting out, mine smell kinda sour to sulfur/rotten egg-ish. But not so rotten eggish that its over powering, more a hint....like walking into the bathroom and saying...yea, someone was in here about a half hour ago. 
Hi all, first post. First off, this is an excellent thread...thanks to everyone who contributed. I spent last night and part of today going through it and I've picked up a few new tricks here that I'm looking forward to trying out.
Here's a few things I'd like to contribute to the discussion from questions people posted earlier:
My preferred sauce uses home grown red jalapenos. Since they ripen throughout the summer, I have no choice but to freeze them as they are picked and make sauce in the fall. They work and taste as good as fresh. An important trick though is to cut the stems while they are still mostly frozen. This keeps the juice from otherwise mushing out before they make it to the food processor.
Lots of talk here about starter cultures but only one comment on something that works great and is much easier/faster. Lactobacillus Acidophilus can be purchased at a drug/vitamin store in caplet or pouch form. A little bit (2-3 caplets) stirred into the mix gets things going quickly and (maybe its coincidence) I've never had any white mold growths at the top.
Most of my experience fermenting peppers has been at a cool (~72F) temperature. I've found the fermentation slows to almost nothing after the 2nd week. After that is really aging rather than fermenting. I had the chance to do a fast fermentation in Florida this summer with a garage temperature of between 85 and 90F. I had crazy fast fermentation going the next morning and I had to de-gas several times a day for the next 3 days before it peterred out. There was no appreciable difference in taste between the hot and cold fermentations so my conclusion is to find a good hot spot in the house (perhaps put a space heater in a small bathroom?) and do it there.
For post-ferment filtering, I use a 200 micron filter bag and squeeze the life out of the mash. The juice and color (and most importantly, the flavor) comes through without any of the chunks. After boiling, I make a small masterbatch of juice and Xanthan Gum to mix into the balance to give it some thickness. As a bonus, the Xantham Gum gives a nice texture to the sauce.
This may be a bit insulting to purists, but a little bit of liquid hickory smoke makes a great additive to the sauce as well without having to go through the process of smoking the peppers. You can find this in the grocery store(usually on the top shelf since it is not a big seller) in the same area as the hot sauces and steak sauces.
Anyway those are my two cents, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts and comments.
Thanks again for a great thread!
Here's a few things I'd like to contribute to the discussion from questions people posted earlier:
My preferred sauce uses home grown red jalapenos. Since they ripen throughout the summer, I have no choice but to freeze them as they are picked and make sauce in the fall. They work and taste as good as fresh. An important trick though is to cut the stems while they are still mostly frozen. This keeps the juice from otherwise mushing out before they make it to the food processor.
Lots of talk here about starter cultures but only one comment on something that works great and is much easier/faster. Lactobacillus Acidophilus can be purchased at a drug/vitamin store in caplet or pouch form. A little bit (2-3 caplets) stirred into the mix gets things going quickly and (maybe its coincidence) I've never had any white mold growths at the top.
Most of my experience fermenting peppers has been at a cool (~72F) temperature. I've found the fermentation slows to almost nothing after the 2nd week. After that is really aging rather than fermenting. I had the chance to do a fast fermentation in Florida this summer with a garage temperature of between 85 and 90F. I had crazy fast fermentation going the next morning and I had to de-gas several times a day for the next 3 days before it peterred out. There was no appreciable difference in taste between the hot and cold fermentations so my conclusion is to find a good hot spot in the house (perhaps put a space heater in a small bathroom?) and do it there.
For post-ferment filtering, I use a 200 micron filter bag and squeeze the life out of the mash. The juice and color (and most importantly, the flavor) comes through without any of the chunks. After boiling, I make a small masterbatch of juice and Xanthan Gum to mix into the balance to give it some thickness. As a bonus, the Xantham Gum gives a nice texture to the sauce.
This may be a bit insulting to purists, but a little bit of liquid hickory smoke makes a great additive to the sauce as well without having to go through the process of smoking the peppers. You can find this in the grocery store(usually on the top shelf since it is not a big seller) in the same area as the hot sauces and steak sauces.
Anyway those are my two cents, I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts and comments.
Thanks again for a great thread!
Heisenberg said:Just curious. How would you all describe the smell of proper lacto-fermenting peppers? Ive searched and read through tons of posts, but mostly people just say "it smells...lacto-fermented". From the gases venting out, mine smell kinda sour to sulfur/rotten egg-ish. But not so rotten eggish that its over powering, more a hint....like walking into the bathroom and saying...yea, someone was in here about a half hour ago.
This is what my jars all look like right now. 3 of the 5 have had a lot of action, 2 of them not so much. I know its bad to open them, but being only a week into the ferment I risked it. I opened the 2 that havent been doing much, and one of the ones thats bubbling like crazy, and I took a spoonful from that one and put some into the 2 lagging bottles...in hopes of spreading the lacto-wealth. Hopefully they will get going like the others soon.
Still dont know what smell I should expect from them though.
salsalady
eXtreme Business
to Precursor! As this thread is an on-going discussion of Fermentation topics, I'd like to suggest you pop over to the Welcome forum and post a "hello" there. All members of the forum can give you a wazzup there and we won't clutter this fermentation discussion. Thanks for your input about fermenting. What strikes a chord with me tonight is the issue of temperature. I've only done a couple of ferments. I don't have a space that can keep the recommended warm temps so I'm trying something different.
Ground red jalapenos with onion and garlic, brine-
Set on a hot plate, the side pot with water is so I can test the water temp without opening the ferment container. I'm thinking I might want to envelope the plate and container just to retain a little bit more heat. I'll check the water temps in the AM to see how they're running.
What a great idea Salsalady! I've tried putting batches in the sink with warm water but gave up quickly when I got tired of replacing the water. You just might have the perfect answer. I'm not sure whether you are doing it or not, but to make sure that the bacteria at the bottom of the jar don't die from overheating I'd suggest putting your jar into a pot of water and then heating the pot. This will also put heat farther up the jar. I'm interested in hearing how you make out.
So I opened my jars today that are pretty much done fermenting, (i know, i know), and one of the jars had something yellow growing under the lid. Coincidentally I had opened that jar a few days ago to add a crushed up lacto acidophilus pill to it because it was one of the jars that didnt seem to have a ton of activity. I put the crushed up pill in, tightened lid, and shook it up. I guess its possible that some of the powder stuck to the lid and started growing, because I found some pics on the internet where lacto colonies can grow yellow:
Has anyone else ever seen anything yellow growing in their ferment? Any similar situations? Advice? I should add that I opened the jars today to take some samples. I work in a lab. Going to measure the pH (precisely), the lactate, and the sodium levels. Unfortunately I dont have access to the micro lab or I would culture it.
Has anyone else ever seen anything yellow growing in their ferment? Any similar situations? Advice? I should add that I opened the jars today to take some samples. I work in a lab. Going to measure the pH (precisely), the lactate, and the sodium levels. Unfortunately I dont have access to the micro lab or I would culture it.
New member, Been going through this thread for a few days now. I started my first ferment before I found your site. Mistake number one right! It's been about two days now without signs of fermentation (Currently everything is settling to the bottom). I used a LB starter packet (Caldwell's Starter packet), mistake number two was that I did not have a jar larger enough for the entire mash. so I had to split it and only ended up putting the culture and brine in one jar due two the availability of clean and sanitary jars. My question is should I try adding another packet of culture to the mash? or possibly strain the mash and follow directions according to this thread?
HI WhacedBear, what temperature are you keeping the mash at (and did you start it from peppers you had in the fridge)? At room temp (72F) it usually takes a batch of "already at room temperature" mash about 2 days before you can see anything (or hear it if you are using a sealed jar and loosen it a bit to listen for escaping CO2). I'd leave it for another day or so and bring up the temperature if possible. If that doesn't work then you can try adding more culture. I wouldn't strain it now though since no matter what, it will be "raw". You might have some mold growth at the top after a few days, but that can be gently removed with no worries. Let us know how things work out.WhackedBear said:
Hi Heisenberg, I've never run across this. When I've added LB to the mash, I've always stirred it in. I think you are onto something though when you say that it is LB that stuck to the lid when it was shaken. So the next question is, "do you scrape it off and stir it in or rinse it off"? I have no idea. Btw, in answer to your question a while ago about the smell of lacto fermentation, the best description I can think of is musky with a slight bit of acidity and a touch of smokey (like a ham).....but that's just my nose. Others who have smelled the same batch say it smells like a tropical swamp, so take that for all its worth.
The peppers were at room temputre but room temp at my house is around 64-68 degrees. The mash was placed in a pint mason jar with a air lock and being stored in a cabinet for a nice dark place. Everything the mash touched was sanitiized with boiling water. I also tried the maing the whole sauce method rather than just peppers. The whole sauce was chipotles, smoked habenaros, tomato sauce(should of done whole) garlic and black beans.
Heisenberg said:
I have never used the crushed up pills for a starter before so I supposed it's possible. I'l looking at trying some of the Lacto from White labs next. There have been a couple of ferments done on here using is that came out good. So far as getting the lacto colonies on the lid, never seen that before either.
WhackedBear said:
WhackedBear said:
Even when I've used ingredients that have a Ton of sugars in them, Golden Raisins, Sweet Potatoes, Pineapple and all in one fermentation, I have seen them work slowly enough to not have mush activity in the bubbler. You can't think or a lacto fermentation the same way as you would fermenting beer. If you can see trapped gas in the mash you can be assured that it's working. Temperature is going to be a big factor and at 64 - 58 degrees it's going to slow it down. You might want to think about putting a heating pad on the lowest setting in the cabinet with it and see if it helps.
As of now it looks like all of the sauce is settling to the bottom and nothing looks like it is getting trapped. I'm not worried about spoilage as of now everything is air tight and be somewhat canned (mash was put in the jar when the jar was warm to the touch).
Ok so did some testing on my 5 jars of habanero mash last night. 3 of my jars always had good activity and they ended up having high lactate levels, and low pH. Of 2 jars I was concerned with (low activity), one had a higher pH, and low lactate level (which is of major concern), and the other had a decently low pH and fairly high lactate (but not as high as the first 3), but this is the jar that I mentioned had the unknown yellow growth under the lid. I had suspected it of being lacto colonies, but under the microscope it appears to be a yellow yeast. So here's the problem: Im thinking of tossing the jar with the higher pH and low lactate, because if it isnt already spoiled, then it will be...as its vulnerable to pathogens since the ferment never really took hold. With the other jar of concern, I dunno...the pH and lactate level is acceptable, but it has the yellow yeast, which since Im not able to speciate it, I dont know whether its harmful.
Here is the yellow yeast, its at the bottom of the field, and you can see tons of lactobacillus as well.
Here is a stained view of the lacto, and some pepper flesh/cells.
Any thoughts, opinions or advice on my 2 jars of concern?
On a side note... I started fermenting a jar of garlic mash and a jar of shallot mash today.
Here is the yellow yeast, its at the bottom of the field, and you can see tons of lactobacillus as well.
Here is a stained view of the lacto, and some pepper flesh/cells.
Any thoughts, opinions or advice on my 2 jars of concern?
On a side note... I started fermenting a jar of garlic mash and a jar of shallot mash today.
about to start my first ferment experiment. Wild Brazils, Onion, Garlic, and harvested Whey. I am going to use the loose lid method. I seem to remember reading that after fermentation starts the lid is suppose to tightened? Is that correct? Or does the lid stay loose through the ferment process to allow c02 to escape?