fertilizer Fertilizer Dilution...

Hi guys,
 
Just letting you know all your knowledge you showed me is not lost.... I'm working on the garden project (iGarden hehe)
 
I will submit a grow log once everything up and running around may.
 
Software is half-done! :)
 
iGarden_progress.png
 
Just want to add:
 
Called many hydro shop and CNS17 grow is on it's way out...many don't carry anymore citing it's old stuff.
 
Even Canadian hydro website far away all back order and will not restock.
 
I have to find an alternative grrrr
 
 
 
What do you think about this (Click to read)?
 
It's common everywhere can find easy a bit expensive though.
 
Of course I will be using it at low concentration...
 
flora_grow.jpg
 
Again, numbers out of whack. Why 10 on the K?
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CNS17 might be old stuff to a hydro store that wants to sell you the latest thing. After all, it's how they stay in business. But I will guarantee you that once you get a good fertilizer, you won't be interested in the latest thing - not even in the least.
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Chemistry and physics aren't really subject to, nor can they be negated by, marketing hype. I find them to be rather constant.
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Don't listen to the grow shop for anything more than "what aisle can I find CNS17 on". Most of the guys that work in those stores knew less than you 2 months ago, if not still today.
 
solid7 said:
The stuff is mad expensive in Canada. Don't you have some way to get the government to pay for this stuff for you? LOL

https://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/161-8689658-7710705?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=cns17+grow
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I know i've checked everywhere... even ebay is damn expensive.
 
let say the least expensive per ml (5 gallon CNS17 grow) would cost me around 300$ (230 USD) to get delivered to my door. And this is being sold under MSRP.
 
But anyway thanks for the recommendation...sent two emails to Botanicare and twice being ignored when asking where to buy in Quebec this product.
 
I'm throwing the towel and went with FloraNova boom since this guy convince me. ---->>>http://thehotpepper.com/topic/54322-35-kg-harvestpod-yield-vs-pot-size-comparison-and-thoughts/
 
 
 
I used Floranova bloom for a lot of the season and at the end was just using plain water for the last 2 months..
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Ever make any trips to the US?  Got any friends to meet you at the border?
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I guess this is the flip side of the cheap health care and drugs in Canada.  We can grow our own medicine much cheaper. :D
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Regardless of the fancy graphs that fella posts, there is no need to use a bloom formula.  It's a debate that's been had many times over, and it's been found wanting, every single time.
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Try this, as an alternative:
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https://www.amazon.ca/gp/offer-listing/B000E1VXVA/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1487450748&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=dynagro+foliage&condition=new
 
solid7 said:
Ever make any trips to the US? 
Click to expand...
 
Yes but it's kind of awkward to carry a 5G container with my motorcycle ;)
 
 
 
 
Regardless of the fancy graphs that fella posts, there is no need to use a bloom formula
Click to expand...
 
 
Honestly I don't care bloom or grow formula its just I think the grow formula has too much N in it. I choose by product content analysis not name (ex: grow,bloom,ripe etc)
 
I like the micronutrients added to it. It has Calcium & Mag (at proportion like CalMag would have)
 
novabloom.png
 
So following the 3:1:2 recommendation, you think that what has too much N?
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What you've posted has nearly twice as much P and K as N.  It's pretty well established that no plant on earth uses more P and K than N at any point in its lifecycle.
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Most fertilizers require multi-part formulas, because they haven't found a way to make a one part, without the calcium binding to other elements, thus making it, and the other element, unavailable.  Plus, having to buy Cal-Mag as a separate product is big business.
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I get that you are having a hard time getting hands on the Dyna-Gro and CNS17, but if I'm just considering plant needs, that guaranteed analysis doesn't catch my attention for any good reasons.  Ultimately, you will use whatever you have access to, but you are, unfortunately, caught in the web of marketing bullshit. 
 
Powelly said:
In my "Australian fertiliser" thread there was a lad that gave a shout out to a fertliser you can pick up from walmart that is just about perfect
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A fertilizer will always help what ever the kind for sure.... used MiracleGro for Tomatoes (never buy again) for until I understood the calcium deficiencies I had in the garden last year...
 
What I don't understand is why they omitted the Calcium in a fertilizer for tomatoes (blossom end rot much???) 
 
 
mgrotomato.png
 
ELCouz said:
 
A fertilizer will always help what ever the kind for sure.... used MiracleGro for Tomatoes (never buy again) for until I understood the calcium deficiencies I had in the garden last year...
 
What I don't understand is why they omitted the Calcium in a fertilizer for tomatoes (blossom end rot much???) 
 
Click to expand...
 
It's hard to add calcium to fertilizers, for the reason I mentioned in my last post.  It has a tendency to bind to other things.  That's what makes that CNS17 and Dyna-Gro so special.  It's the only thing you'll ever need. (they are both calcium based fertilizers)
 
You can use Calcium Nitrate which will also have the added benefit of other salts not turning into sulfates which is the disadvantage with gypsum 
 
solid7 said:
Worst case, I'd use this:
 
https://www.amazon.ca/Alaska-Fish-Fertilizer-1-Gal/dp/B002RH0B26/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1487452498&sr=8-1&keywords=alaska+fish
 
Along with this:
 
https://www.amazon.ca/Seaweed-Plant-0-0-1-Neptunes-Harvest/dp/B009HQRHS6/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1487452443&sr=8-7&keywords=neptunes+harvest
 
You can use that as a complete feeding regimen.
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Both product mentioned are organic derived nutes... this will turn to sludge into the barrel.
 
 
It's hard to add calcium to fertilizers, for the reason I mentioned in my last post.  It has a tendency to bind to other things.  That's what makes that CNS17 and Dyna-Gro so special.  It's the only thing you'll ever need. (they are both calcium based fertilizers)
Click to expand...
 
I know...I've tried hard to locate the CNS17 even today did 3 other places... as for the Dyna-Gro I've never seen it yet locally. Shipping sucks, the price vs US amazon are ridiculously high.
 
What I see around is 90% of the place carry GH,Technaflora,Big bud,MiracleGro,Optimum,Nutri+ products ... the remaining 10% is niche fertilizer that cost an arm and a leg to buy.
 
The rest is online but shipping is expensive because it's basically water and salt so anything bigger than 1 quart is gonna cost more than 20$ alone to ship.
 
 
 
K is high yes (4-8-7) ...but that's the nute that plants don't care if its high ... I mean it will not lock-out anything from what i've read.
 
Phosphorus is higher sure... it would had been the same with the PH Down (P. acid) use anyway since it breaks down into phosphorus.
 
 
Spend countless time around finding the best all round fertilizer with what I have access to.
 
ELCouz said:
Both product mentioned are organic derived nutes... this will turn to sludge into the barrel.
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True, but I've completely lost sight of the original conversation, so if you can't go organic, it's out, for sure.

 
ELCouz said:
K is high yes (4-8-7) ...but that's the nute that plants don't care if its high ... I mean it will not lock-out anything from what i've read.
 
Phosphorus is higher sure... it would had been the same with the PH Down (P. acid) use anyway since it breaks down into phosphorus.
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I think that a lot of people believe that plants don't care if it's high. I also believe that most people don't know how to properly diagnose plant issues, and wouldn't know if that were the case, or not. If some concept is not widely accepted - rightly or wrongly - then most people won't consider it, as they don't seem to have the ability to believe that people who say other stuff than what they've first heard, could possibly be telling the truth. It's better to keep an open mind, and realize that if there is a pretty sizable body of research (which there is) that says this is proportionately 8 times higher than the needed plant amount, then there is a chance that lockout could happen, unbeknownst to the unsavvy user.  
 
Phosphorus lockout absolutely can occur.  I am of the growing opinion that it does, in fact, happen.  Maybe more often than we might realize, but we can't/won't recognize it, because we've been conditioned to believe that we need so much P in our feeding schedule.  P is easier to overdose than Calcium, but we talk all the time about Calcium lockout.  Why?
 
Yes, the PH down was the whole reason that I took you down the lower phosphorus road.
 
Seriously it's not hard you just lay down some organic material and let nature do it's work
 
Fish emulsion
Protein hydrolysates
Kelp / seaweed
composted poo from a multitude of different animals 
mushroom compost
worm compost
blood and bone
 
Any liquid or soluble fertiliser that contains two or more the above will be good
You're not using hydroponics so forget about hydroponic nutrients. Just laying down some cheap mushroom compost and watering it in is 80% of the way to being perfect. Don't fall into the trap of spending 80% of your time and effort trying to get that extra 20% when it can be spent on low hanging fruit like building your soil or better quality light
 
I'm trying to be in the big boys league (producer quality) in my garden. 
 
We have very short growing season (< 3 months without a freezing night)
 
Organics (emulsion,compost,wormcastings,etc) and pellets are slow release fertilizers.
 
Calcium nitrate is a good example given by Powelly (15.5-0-0)... in fact very cheap but normally sold in big 50 lbs bags.
 
 
I read commercial blogs mostly and some hotpepper posts. 420 like forums are the worst mess around regarding facts backed opinions.
 
 
 
Ready-made fertilizers may contain additional elements, such as iron, manganese and other trace elements. Growers are familiar with 20-10-20, 20-8-20, 12-2-14, and many other combinations. These numbers indicate per cent nitrogen, per cent phosphoric acid, and per cent potash. Many experienced growers don’t realize that per cent phosphorus will be 43 per cent, and per cent potassium will be about 80 per cent. Thus, 20-10-20 will look like 20-4.3-16 on the N-P-K basis. 
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Ok this might sound stupid but let's say you have a 20-10-20 fertilizer if you dilute by 10 times the normal application does it make a 2-1-2 fertilizer?
 
 
 
 
Source: ------>>> http://www.greenhousecanada.com/inputs/fertilizer/growing-points-fertilizers-fear-factor-3160
 
 
 
 
I get that you are having a hard time getting hands on the Dyna-Gro and CNS17, but if I'm just considering plant needs, that guaranteed analysis doesn't catch my attention for any good reasons.  Ultimately, you will use whatever you have access to, but you are, unfortunately, caught in the web of marketing bullshit. 
Click to expand...
 
 
 
Understand the basics: Plants need 17 elements for growth and they are non-selective. It means that the presence of an element in plant tissue does not mean that they are essential. 
 
Out of these 17 elements:
 
carbon, hydrogen and oxygen are supplied through carbon dioxide from the air and water through the roots. So we have to supply nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium, calcium, magnesium, sulphur, iron, manganese, copper, zinc, boron, molybdenum and chloride. Silicon is being recognized more and more as an element found in plants, and it is provided as part of a fertilizer program or is available from water.
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Micronutes aren't BS though! :)
 
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