Fruit in hotsauce

[Topsmoke]

It seems like almost no one is making superhot sauces without adding loads of fruit and i just dont get it.  I understand you can make a yummy concoction but what do you do with it?  I dont want berries on my taco, or mango on my eggs or pizza.  I guess im just trying to understand the root of this dubious practice. To clarify - this is about fruit based sauces as oppossed to small additions of fruit. 

 

[Redeemer]

It seems like almost no one is making superhot sauces without adding loads of fruit and i just dont get it.  I understand you can make a yummy concoction but what do you do with it?  I dont want berries on my taco, or mango on my eggs or pizza.  I guess im just trying to understand the root of this dubious practice. To clarify - this is about fruit based sauces as oppossed to small additions of fruit. 

 
Here's my opinion. I like adding mango and lime to chunky salsas like a pico de gallo etc but with a hot pepper sauce, yes want just the pepper flavor to stand out. I hate cloying sweetness, and want just enough to balance my sauce if needed. What you will find is there is a huge difference in flavor depending on WHEN you add the fruit. I just had good results with mango (and soon to fine out with pineapple) where I added to a pepper ferment. I wanted to tone down the heat a bit without relying on water, sugar, or too much salt. I added orange bell peppers too because I figured I could retain general pepper flavor while diluting the heat. The result, after a 4 week ferment, not a trace of sugar, or mango flavor. I think I could have improved by not using the orange bells to be honest. The mango however provided plenty of food for the lacto bacteria, as well as pectin to give me an incredible smoothness.
 
I got some pointers from Johnsmyname regarding post ferment flavors, and might do a similar sauce, adding lime at bottling time, just to see. I love the combination of lime and habanero but don't want to incorporate citrus into my ferment.
 
I will add that, depending on what flavor you are looking for, distilled white vinegar will give you the most commercial, or mass market taste. Its the cheapest and most widely used vinegar in the condiment industry. I like ACV because of the flavor (I could, and sometimes do, drink it straight out of the bottle), and because if you plan on keeping the sauce refrigerated, you can incorporate additional probiotics into the sauce using an ACV containing the "mother".

 

[Topsmoke]

Have you tried ACV in place of regular vinegar ?
The sauces I make contain peppers as the number 1 ingredient as well followed by fruit,ACV, onion,garlic and salt.

always apple cider? i only use ACV in one recipe, its just too pronounced.

 
 orange bell peppers too because I figured I could retain general pepper flavor while diluting the heat.
 
 adding lime at bottling time, just to see. I love the combination of lime and habanero but don't want to incorporate citrus into my ferment.
 
I will add that, depending on what flavor you are looking for, distilled white vinegar will give you the most commercial, or mass market taste

I think you would do better to keep the bells and lose the mango.  Nothing tastes like peppers except peppers, this is my go to for "sissy" sauce.
 
I only ferment my mash for one night, adding the citrus right away preserves color - just an observation
 
Im well aware of the bias against white vinegar, I feel like sometimes people try to distance themselves from the norm because its pedestrian or mundane but theres a reason people have been doing something for a long time usually its because it works or in this case adds acidity without overpowering the flavors of the peppers.  Not dissing on vinegar alternatives just representin, DWV in the house yall!!

 

[The Hot Pepper]

When using ACV color is also a factor, it is brown, so if you want a bright yellow or orange sauce it will dull it. Works well with fruit and complex sauces.
 
Distilled white vinegar is cheap stuff, fermented from distilled alcohol either from corn or petroleum (yes petroleum look it up.) Avoid the swill. Use it for cleaning... maybe!
 
White wine vinegar is the good white vinegar.
 
Acetic acid is also a choice. Vinegar is acetic acid diluted with 95% water. You can buy pure acetic acid and use your own liquid (water if that is your choice).
 
Cane vinegar is very good for hot sauce.
 
Rice wine too.

 

[salsalady]

several years ago, the Kid and I Iined up every vinegar we could find and did a taste on about a dozen vinegars.....
 
very informative,  I would suggest others try it if they can. 
 
edit- with locally available vinegars.....
 
 
 
 
and we live in the middle of NoWhere.........

 

[The Hot Pepper]

Yup
 
SL another thing you can do is test each vinegar with tomato paste for savory and apple sauce/fruit baby food for sweet to see how they play. Take 5 vinegars and mix the same amount of vinegar and base and taste. You get a better idea of how it melds.
 
Write results down.
 
Also makes tasting vinegar easier.

 

[Lucky Dog Hot Sauce]

It seems like almost no one is making superhot sauces without adding loads of fruit and i just dont get it.  I understand you can make a yummy concoction but what do you do with it?  I dont want berries on my taco, or mango on my eggs or pizza.  I guess im just trying to understand the root of this dubious practice. To clarify - this is about fruit based sauces as oppossed to small additions of fruit. 

All of my fruit-based sauces are savory.

Pink Label has Bartlett pear & dates, but it's an applewood smoked Serrano / Habanero /Ghost sauce. Habanero is the dominant flavor. I designed it for carnitas or pulled pork.

Black Label is my fruitier sauce, but again, with roasted garlic & fire roasted jalapeño, it's more of a savory sauce, for oysters, fish tacos, civeche, steak, pizza, etc.

My most savory sauce is my Brown Label and I use just a little fig and pear to balance the acidity of the mustard. Flavor-wise it's Imperceptible other than adding balance and tempering other notes.

Just because someone uses fruit doesn't mean they're making a sauce for ice cream.

 

[The Hot Pepper]

 

[dragonsfire]

Peppers are botanically fruits, but are generally considered in culinary contexts to be vegetables, Mushrooms are fruit as well

 

[Topsmoke]

Just because someone uses fruit doesn't mean they're making a sauce for ice cream.

im not sure if its me or people didnt read my whole post. i wrote "To clarify - this is about fruit based sauces as oppossed to small additions of fruit."  

Peppers are botanically fruits, but are generally considered in culinary contexts to be vegetables, Mushrooms are fruit as well

berries to be exact and although the mushroom is refered to as the fruit of the mycelium they're actually more closely related to humans than they are to plants.
 

talk_amongst.jpg

true enough, but we're getting off topic debating what constitutes a fruit when what i really wanted to discuss was fruit flavored sauces.

 

[The Hot Pepper]

LOL it's just a meme.......... relax people......... going to make a fruit smoothie, you know... mushrooms and peppers....

 

[Redeemer]

When using ACV color is also a factor, it is brown, so if you want a bright yellow or orange sauce it will dull it. Works well with fruit and complex sauces.
 
Distilled white vinegar is cheap stuff, fermented from distilled alcohol either from corn or petroleum (yes petroleum look it up.) Avoid the swill. Use it for cleaning... maybe!
 
White wine vinegar is the good white vinegar.
 
Acetic acid is also a choice. Vinegar is acetic acid diluted with 95% water. You can buy pure acetic acid and use your own liquid (water if that is your choice).
 
Cane vinegar is very good for hot sauce.
 
Rice wine too.

Good discussion here. Vinegar is subjective so when I say ACV is the ONLY vinegar I use, it shouldn't limit someone else's choices. For salad I like white wine vinegar, and sometimes even balsamic. I hate using distilled white because of the smell and keep it on hand mostly for cleaning purposes. Thats just me. I find ACV has a neutral flavor with a slight natural sweetness and also can contain probiotics. Ultimately, use the one you think tastes the best for your sauce blend.
 
Oh and I thought DWV was made from fermented malt. But I could totally see the industry cheaping out even further. I now have new info gained from this thread to start more ferments! Who doesnt want that?

 

[The Hot Pepper]

Vinegar is fermented, WDV is made from distilled alcohol (and fermented into vinegar), but the distilled alcohol can be made from anything, sometimes a grain, sometimes it is a synthetic alcohol made from natural gas or petroleum. The big gallon jugs cleaning ladies have, you wouldn't want that anywhere near your food (but FDA says it is okay). Heinz says they only use corn. Other brands don't say. Stay away from those, most definitely.
 
White wine vinegar uses wine of course. Rice wine (or rice) vinegar uses rice wine (or rice) and sugar. These are not near as harsh and better tasting.

 

[Topsmoke]

Vinegar is fermented, WDV is made from distilled alcohol (and fermented into vinegar), but the distilled alcohol can be made from anything, sometimes a grain, sometimes it is a synthetic alcohol made from natural gas or petroleum. The big gallon jugs cleaning ladies have, you wouldn't want that anywhere near your food (but FDA says it is okay). Heinz says they only use corn. Other brands don't say. Stay away from those, most definitely.
 
White wine vinegar uses wine of course. Rice wine (or rice) vinegar uses rice wine (or rice) and sugar. These are not near as harsh and better tasting.

was just at the FDA website and they explicitly say "For this reason, we have advised inquirers that we do not regard this synthetic alcohol as a suitable food ingredient. This position, however, has not been the subject of any court review." but if youre relying on a government agency to keep you safe you have more to worry about than how your vinegar was made.  Told you everyone be hatin on DWV!

I find ACV has a neutral flavor with a slight natural sweetness

Apple cider isnt neutral flavored that means it has no flavor, you yourself said its sweet.  Neutral is vodka, youre talking rum. 

Its a really interesting process, sauce making.  Crafting a flavor ment to enhance rather than be enjoyed on its own.  I think ill start a new topic, Flavor crafting, whats your process or something like that.

 

[salsalady]

TopSmoke, I think everyone agrees that ACV has a distictive flavor.  Some like it, some hate it.  Same with a lot of distinctive ingredients.  Lavender, cilantro, black pepper, vinegar of any flavor~~~  I'm not sure what Redeemer was meaning other than maybe ACV is a bit more mellow than DWV?  I consider rice wine vinegar a lot more flavor neutral than ACV, but that's just me~  :shrug:  It's probably just an interpretation.
 
 
Flavor Crafting would be a good topic.  My first hot sauces were crafted specifically with ACV as the vinegar to go with the chipotle.  Since then, the process has changed a bit.  I won't get into all that now since you'll be starting a new thread.   

 

[Lucky Dog Hot Sauce]

im not sure if its me or people didnt read my whole post. i wrote "To clarify - this is about fruit based sauces as oppossed to small additions of fruit."  

 
I read your post in its entirety. I quoted it. How much more in-depth was I expected to study? 
 
In the sauces I mentioned, fruit is pretty prominently used,

LOL it's just a meme.......... relax people......... going to make a fruit smoothie, you know... mushrooms and peppers....

 
Don't forget the tomatoes. snap peas, avocado, cucumber, eggplant, summer squash and olives! 
 

 

[salsalady]

and NO Rhubarb!!!  

 

[Topsmoke]

 
I read your post in its entirety. I quoted it. How much more in-depth was I expected to study? 
 

No reason to get uppity Lucky Dog, we're all friends here.  I just wanted to make sure we all understood what exactly the discussion is, because its not about putting fruit in. its about using a lot of fruit and some of the posts dont reflect that.

 

[SavinaRed]

topsmoke if I understand you correctly you are talking about a sauce where fruit would be the 1st or 2nd ingredient listed is that correct ?

 

[Topsmoke]

 
 My first hot sauces were crafted specifically with ACV as the vinegar to go with the chipotle. 

chipotle makes sense as its a strong heady flavor that can stand up to ACV and it might be flattened by DWV. I cant imagine you could preserve some of the more delicate flavors like the floral notes of a ghost pepper if you used ACV.   I only use ACV in one recipe because its chocolate habs and they really have no flavor by themselves.(Bring the hate, i know im inviting it with that one )

topsmoke if I understand you correctly you are talking about a sauce where fruit would be the 1st or 2nd ingredient listed is that correct ?

that is what i ment, but i can refine it further lets say sauces were fruit is the predominate flavor or at least a very strong element.

 

[SavinaRed]

chipotle makes sense as its a strong heady flavor that can stand up to ACV and it might be flattened by DWV. I cant imagine you could preserve some of the more delicate flavors like the floral notes of a ghost pepper if you used ACV.   I only use ACV in one recipe because its chocolate habs and they really have no flavor by themselves.(Bring the hate, i know im inviting it with that one )

that is what i ment, but i can refine it further lets say sauces were fruit is the predominate flavor or at least a very strong element.

This is just my opinion but I think the general public(not THP members) prefer a vinegar or fruit flavored sauce and not a predominantly Pepper based sauce. We here are the exception to the rule where we like the peppers in a given sauce to shine through and not be covered up by other ingredients.