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lighting Grow Lights?
- Thread starter Pepper Belly
- Start date
NatGreenMeds
Banned
Sorry man, but the problem isn't Image Shack. The problem is, as you said, "Unfortunately this site doesn't allow direct picture hosting".Txclosetgrower said:
jpg's could be limited to no more than 200K. With today's HD sizes, that's peanuts.
I'll check out PB and Flickr. I'll also add a command line to the shortcut to MAKE it open in a new browser window regardless of anything else.
NatGreenMeds
Banned
Here's the fix for those of you that want to avoid this problem:
Open IE and go to ToolsInternet Options and the Advanced tab. Scroll
down to the "Reuse windows for launching shortcuts" line under the
Browsing section. Uncheck that box, that will allow your desktop URL
shortcuts to open a new IE window. By default that box is checked.
Open IE and go to ToolsInternet Options and the Advanced tab. Scroll
down to the "Reuse windows for launching shortcuts" line under the
Browsing section. Uncheck that box, that will allow your desktop URL
shortcuts to open a new IE window. By default that box is checked.
NatGreenMeds said:
Lol problem # two is using IE. Firefox opens links in new tab by default if i'm not mistaken
But yeah my main gripe with imageshack is it's SLOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. Photobucket is best for just hosting pics you want to post on forums and flickr is great for actually hosting your photographs. Man i love flickr.
NatGreenMeds said:
For this forum you can use
www.fotosizer.com/
for any size restrictions
youll probably have to resize and then upload into photbucket and then put the url here.
Pepper Belly said:
Anyway and respectively back to topic
NatGreenMeds
Banned
hehe, Nat is over his temper tantrum now.....sorry folks, I'm pretty well known for my temper. It only goes off when something I consider unreasonable happens, but when it does, it kind of controls me, instead of the other way round.wordwiz said:
Mike, what I was going to say is that using LED's is way different than other HID's, as you no doubt know already. Light distance with LED's is much less forgiving. The lux loss due to distance is much more radical with LED's. My favorite system so far is:
http://www.led-grow-master.com/LGM5.html
8 LGM5 LED grow lights with 2 power supplies, 6 connect cables and a SolarOasis SunMount
Retail Price $2,017.60
This is the edited email I received back from the owner of that site:
You will need 8 LGM5 for peppers in your 3.5' by 5.5' area. Right now you are using about 20 watts per square foot to light your peppers. LGM5 throws a 1' x 3' beam at 28" above plants.
For a 3.5' x 5.5' area, eight LGM5s minimum over each table, drawing about 80 watts per 8 LGM5. This would be equal to a 400 watt HPS in plant usable light.
Nats,
I can't compare LEDs to HID's as far a loss of lux but it's not radical with a 45 watt panel. I had it about a yard from the plant canopy and was getting about 1500 lux. Dropping it to a foot and the lux goes up to 5300 or so.
That sounds like quite a price to pay. A guy offered to sell me a 300 watt system with 288 LEDs, for $1400 US or 3 of the 90 W for $1450, and that includes delivery from Australia.
Mike
I can't compare LEDs to HID's as far a loss of lux but it's not radical with a 45 watt panel. I had it about a yard from the plant canopy and was getting about 1500 lux. Dropping it to a foot and the lux goes up to 5300 or so.
That sounds like quite a price to pay. A guy offered to sell me a 300 watt system with 288 LEDs, for $1400 US or 3 of the 90 W for $1450, and that includes delivery from Australia.
Mike
NatGreenMeds
Banned
The only comparitive rating that can be used between LEDs and HIDs is microEinsteins. It works out to the 20 watts per/sq ft with HIDs to 4 watts per/sq ft with LEDs in this application. Quite a difference in power costs.wordwiz said:
The up-front costs have me stumped. With the costs associated with getting my hydro garden up and running this coming year, I can't possibly afford the LEDs for the indoor part of my process. I'm stuck with using the HIDs I already have. I'll just have to eat the operating costs. I have to transplant my seedlings into gallon containers next weekend. That will make me go to one of the 430 watt HPS for light. My 250 flo won't cover that much area.
It's a "Damned if I do, Damned if I don't" situation.
Nats,
You're quite the source for info about grow lights. I've seen Lux different ratings for different bulbs but never found one that broke down the cost per watt for PAR light.
But another thing growers also have to take into consideration is the Lux - it has to be, in my opinion, close to 5,000 (using LEDs) to allow fruiting, except for those peppers that short of develop but don't seem to mature.
I know what you mean about having money for lights. I would love to have the dough to get that 300 watt LED but no way can I afford it. But if I can spend $360 on lights that will allow me to grow 800 seedlings that I can sell, I'll be able to afford it next year.
My grow test is only about 10 days old but I don't like the all red panel. The seedlings are slightly taller but the foliage is smaller than that of the the plants under the all-blue light. Plus, the leaves are curling quite a bit. That's normally a sign the lights are too close to the plant, but if I lower the plants, they get leggier. Of course, it is too soon to tell for sure.
Mike
You're quite the source for info about grow lights. I've seen Lux different ratings for different bulbs but never found one that broke down the cost per watt for PAR light.
But another thing growers also have to take into consideration is the Lux - it has to be, in my opinion, close to 5,000 (using LEDs) to allow fruiting, except for those peppers that short of develop but don't seem to mature.
I know what you mean about having money for lights. I would love to have the dough to get that 300 watt LED but no way can I afford it. But if I can spend $360 on lights that will allow me to grow 800 seedlings that I can sell, I'll be able to afford it next year.
My grow test is only about 10 days old but I don't like the all red panel. The seedlings are slightly taller but the foliage is smaller than that of the the plants under the all-blue light. Plus, the leaves are curling quite a bit. That's normally a sign the lights are too close to the plant, but if I lower the plants, they get leggier. Of course, it is too soon to tell for sure.
Mike
NatGreenMeds
Banned
Thanks Mike, I'm a learning freak. I read everything I can get my hands on and remember most of what I read. I love to learn.
I agree with you on 5K lux being the minimum for fruiting. 7.5K will work almost as well as outside light.
Most of the time, when plants start the leaf curling, it's infrared that's the culprit. All artificial lighting has varying amounts of IR, and if the light is close enough for the IR to be of sufficient quantity, then it starts cooking the plant. The first sign is a slight wilt and then a rapid, tight curling of the edges with a rippling effect. At that point, the damaged leaves won't heal, but if the IR is backed off, the plant will recover with no harm done in most cases. Having a light that is strong enough at a distance that precludes IR damage is the goal.
If I win the Lottery, I'll send you some LEDs.....hehe....a truck full.
I agree with you on 5K lux being the minimum for fruiting. 7.5K will work almost as well as outside light.
Most of the time, when plants start the leaf curling, it's infrared that's the culprit. All artificial lighting has varying amounts of IR, and if the light is close enough for the IR to be of sufficient quantity, then it starts cooking the plant. The first sign is a slight wilt and then a rapid, tight curling of the edges with a rippling effect. At that point, the damaged leaves won't heal, but if the IR is backed off, the plant will recover with no harm done in most cases. Having a light that is strong enough at a distance that precludes IR damage is the goal.
If I win the Lottery, I'll send you some LEDs.....hehe....a truck full.
I am pulling for the lot of you folks who can plug a light in to the wall and grow a pepper. In fact I am just this close ( > I < )
to adding a few solar panels so we can do something on a small scale ourselves. I watch all grow light threads with delight and high hope. I guess I should point out we live off the grid so we are watt watching amp saving sun loving folks.
to adding a few solar panels so we can do something on a small scale ourselves. I watch all grow light threads with delight and high hope. I guess I should point out we live off the grid so we are watt watching amp saving sun loving folks.
Nats,
I don't think there is any IR from the lights - they are 650nm LED bulbs. Plus, no wilt or anything and the seedlings are growing their second set of leaves. But that is one reason for doing this test - to see how seedlings grow. I figure I have time for at least one more test after this one is done before growing for $$$ starts. I'm also hoping to have a least one completely ripe Bhut Jolokia by then.
A bold prediction - by the fall of 2010, AJ will have a 15x20' grow room either built or altered with three, 300 watt LED lights in it, posting weekly pictures of 15 pound harvests of peppers. By then, the panels will include white, green, amber and purple flood bulb among the 288 other LEDs , as well as a couple of bulbs that provide the low width and high width sprectrum of IR light. Plus, one will be able to easily dial the amount of Red and Blue intensity but even better, these lights will cost less than $500 each. And, I'll have my first Grow Your Own Way store open!
Mike
I don't think there is any IR from the lights - they are 650nm LED bulbs. Plus, no wilt or anything and the seedlings are growing their second set of leaves. But that is one reason for doing this test - to see how seedlings grow. I figure I have time for at least one more test after this one is done before growing for $$$ starts. I'm also hoping to have a least one completely ripe Bhut Jolokia by then.
A bold prediction - by the fall of 2010, AJ will have a 15x20' grow room either built or altered with three, 300 watt LED lights in it, posting weekly pictures of 15 pound harvests of peppers. By then, the panels will include white, green, amber and purple flood bulb among the 288 other LEDs , as well as a couple of bulbs that provide the low width and high width sprectrum of IR light. Plus, one will be able to easily dial the amount of Red and Blue intensity but even better, these lights will cost less than $500 each. And, I'll have my first Grow Your Own Way store open!
Mike
NatGreenMeds
Banned
Sorry Mike, I was talking about non-LED lights with IR. I didn't realize you were talking about leaf curl in regards to your LEDs.wordwiz said:
You're getting leaf curl from LEDs being too close? How close? This is a pure red test? No blue light at all?
Tell me exactly what it is you're testing and your parameters, or the thread you explained them please.
Nat
(No "s") hehe
Nat (sans the S!),
I plan on sowing about 864 seeds late this winter, with an eye on selling most of them so I have money to spend on lights.
Being sold on LEDs, I started a test with only two goals to see how if the potting soil I am using is good for toms and to see how long it would take to raise a seedling to the point it would be large enough to put into a coldframe for hardening off. The six-cell planter went under a 14 watt LED light that has the normal Red/Blue ratio.
But along the way, something strange happened. A couple of the seedlings started growing toward a specific bulb, almost at a 45 degree angle. I had no idea if it was a blue or red bulb but felt I needed to find out.
I get most of my lights from a lovely lady in the Show Me State and wrote her - she had both a red and blue 14-watt panel that had been damaged in shipping. Nothing wrong with the lights, just the frame or underside. She sold them to me for $15 each. So I planted three differnt groups of Red Delicious toms. One of them is under a Red light, one under a Blue and the other under a R/B panel. The goal of this test is to see which light produces the bushiest plants and again, how long it will take.
I stuck all three flats under lights before any seeds germinated, all within 1/16" the same distance from the lights. Since they have sprouted, I have been trying to keep the top leaves of the tallest plant in each flat no less than 1/8" or more than 1/4" from the light, though some plants have grown enough that by the time I get to check them, they may be almost touching the bulbs.
That hasn't really happened with the seedlings that are curling, at least not enough to void my test. I think what is happening is that the red light is encouraging growth that the roots cannot support, even though the plants have plenty of water. They are basically trying to avoid absorbing light by having less surface area exposed to it.
BTW, I have these three flats in the same chamber but with a piece of paneling between each light and the front, back and top are covered so no ambient light reaches them.
I also had the same thing (leaf curl - only worse) when I moved a flat from a 14 watt panel to the 45-watt one; it almost died.
Too bad I don't have a good camera for taking close-up pics or I would post them.
Mike
I plan on sowing about 864 seeds late this winter, with an eye on selling most of them so I have money to spend on lights.
Being sold on LEDs, I started a test with only two goals to see how if the potting soil I am using is good for toms and to see how long it would take to raise a seedling to the point it would be large enough to put into a coldframe for hardening off. The six-cell planter went under a 14 watt LED light that has the normal Red/Blue ratio.
But along the way, something strange happened. A couple of the seedlings started growing toward a specific bulb, almost at a 45 degree angle. I had no idea if it was a blue or red bulb but felt I needed to find out.
I get most of my lights from a lovely lady in the Show Me State and wrote her - she had both a red and blue 14-watt panel that had been damaged in shipping. Nothing wrong with the lights, just the frame or underside. She sold them to me for $15 each. So I planted three differnt groups of Red Delicious toms. One of them is under a Red light, one under a Blue and the other under a R/B panel. The goal of this test is to see which light produces the bushiest plants and again, how long it will take.
I stuck all three flats under lights before any seeds germinated, all within 1/16" the same distance from the lights. Since they have sprouted, I have been trying to keep the top leaves of the tallest plant in each flat no less than 1/8" or more than 1/4" from the light, though some plants have grown enough that by the time I get to check them, they may be almost touching the bulbs.
That hasn't really happened with the seedlings that are curling, at least not enough to void my test. I think what is happening is that the red light is encouraging growth that the roots cannot support, even though the plants have plenty of water. They are basically trying to avoid absorbing light by having less surface area exposed to it.
BTW, I have these three flats in the same chamber but with a piece of paneling between each light and the front, back and top are covered so no ambient light reaches them.
I also had the same thing (leaf curl - only worse) when I moved a flat from a 14 watt panel to the 45-watt one; it almost died.
Too bad I don't have a good camera for taking close-up pics or I would post them.
Mike
jbeery said:
You also live in a desert (plenty of sun).