Has my plant contracted a virus?

[Hermansen]

Hi,
 
I recently got some help in a different thread, where I focused mostly on some spots I was seeing on the pods. (http://thehotpepper.com/topic/68732-brown-spots-on-pods/)
 
Turns out that I had different problems (maybe in addition to calcium deficiencies) too. 
At least one of them was that there are actually thrips living on this plant. (And now also all my other plants, yay)
 
This plant is not looking very healthy, but I guess I haven't been treating it so nicely either, by letting it live under a grow light in a humid (75% RH @ 22 C) basement while the weather has actually been perfect for growing chilies outside in Norway for the past 2 months - this is an extremely rare occurence. (Might see this more often in the coming years though)
 
I moved it outside just the other day (still can't understand why I didn't just do this a long time ago), so I can't yet comment on how it will react, but I'm getting very impatient because of my other plants and concerns that they can be infected by the same problems. (I have a couple of "bonchis", one that I've had for a couple of years, so I'm not looking forward to it if I have to throw it out)
 
Now, I've been googling like crazy for the past couple of days, and I had almost accepted that I should just throw this plant in the garbage, but when I noticed that the thrips had carried over to all the peppers I have, inside and outside, I think I want to find a way to treat them instead. I guess I will try to make a soap solution myself against the thrips, as there are almost no pesticides available to buy as a hobbyist in Norway, including pure neem oil which is classified as a prescription medicine. I found a site where I can buy some Orius majusculus pirate bugs for an almost acceptable price though, so I might try that if the soap fails.
 
What I'm not able to find out is what kind of secondary problems, if any, this plant has.
Is it a virus, bacteria, fungi or are the thrips just agressively feeding?
There aren't especially many thrips at all that I have been able to see, for all of the plants I just see one on a leaf here and there.
 
I figure that the tiny black dots and some of the more dispersed dead tissue are caused by the thrips, but what about the yellow spotting, the black leopard dots, death creeping in from the leaf tip, or the extreme leaf curling?
Normally I think of myself as an expert in using google, but when it comes to this plant stuff I seem to come up short. I find the lack of pictures accompanying descriptions of different pests and diseases especially disturbing - maybe most people who are really into plants aren't that into using the internet and making modern looking websites?  
 
It is a chinense, type pink habanero (from fataliiseeds), that has been living in coco for a few months after starting its life in a dwc system. I drip feed it every day on a timer before the sun warms up with a solution of about 500 ppms total. After suggestions from helpful forum members in the first thread, the solution is now both weaker and I have added some trace mineral mix in addition to calmag and coco nutrients from canna.
 
I think the pictures might be more descriptive  than the text maybe. (I wasn't able to get a good picture of a thrip, but I'm at least 95% sure they are western flower thrips, most have been in the larvae stage, but I've also seen a couple of adults)
 

 

[solid7]

Yikes.

I gotta be honest, I'd love to give  a recommendation for this, but the drip feed everyday thing, is a real turn-off to me.  My advice is just going to be to stop feeding altogether, and just straight water for awhile.
 
Even if you've weakened your solution, you're feeding EVERY DAY.  That's so unnecessary.

 

[Edmick]

I'm not an expert when it comes to this kinda stuff but have you checked it for mites? I've had mites before and it looked quite similar to that.

 

[Masher]

Over feeding is my guess. I just went through it 6 weeks back.

Straight water for 2-3 weeks. Let soil dry out before each watering.

The damaged areas will not recover but any new growth after the flush should look normal again.

My plants looked exactly like yours...same leaf curl, wrinkling, spotting and death tips.

They recovered after the h20 flushing out all the crap I was feeding them.

 

[jedisushi06]

too many nutrinets

 

[Scorchio]

Can I suggest flushing with just ph'd water and no feeding for a few days....10 maybe.
If you have bugs then shoot them with something that works.
I love coco and 2 part Cannabis nutrients are no stranger to me. There are now 3 part nutrients.....why?
But I don't grow that plant any more and have no need for those nutrients as I am a simple man.
A few gallons of neutral water through the pot and a bug spray will work wonders.
The last flush could include some Magnesium Sulphate in moderation.

 

[karoo]

I'm with all of the above , flush it leave it.

 

[Hermansen]

Thanks a lot for your answers, I'm so relieved that all of you think it's just overfeeding!
I'll try to flush it and feed it straight ph'ed water for a while and see how it reacts.
 

I'm not an expert when it comes to this kinda stuff but have you checked it for mites? I've had mites before and it looked quite similar to that.

I have studied the leaves pretty intensely and have only found the thrips so far at least.
 

Yikes.

I gotta be honest, I'd love to give  a recommendation for this, but the drip feed everyday thing, is a real turn-off to me.  My advice is just going to be to stop feeding altogether, and just straight water for awhile.
 
Even if you've weakened your solution, you're feeding EVERY DAY.  That's so unnecessary.

 
I might come across as really ungrateful now, but I didn't actually use to feed every day until I read your post in my last problem thread;
 

 
In general, I find that if you're doing soil, DTW, or container gardening, it's much better to feed/water more often, but in LESS volume.  Superficial watering, as opposed to deep soak.  Instead of saturating your container every time, give it a quick hit, and move on.  You'll quickly figure out how often to water, so that the plants get what they need.  I find that growth is much more rapid this way.
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Just fine tune that process to the point that you don't incur wilting.  Wilting is caused by a loss of turgor pressure, and we don't really want to do that, if we're trying to maintain optimum plant growth.  If your plant wilts between today's light watering and tomorrow, water a little more tomorrow. (no "fine tuning" in the same day - let it be wilted until the next watering - but get it sorted quickly)
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Back your nutrient solution off by around 200 ppm, to start with. 

 
Maybe I misunderstood your meaning from this post though.
 
However I've gotta say that switching to the drip water/feeding half the amount every day as opposed to every other day has really been working great for my two other chilies that have been outside, and also in coco, for a couple of months now. Almost all the "good looking" growth on the attached picture has come after I switched to every day feeding. They are actually being fed a little bit stronger nutrient solution than the problem plant(700ppm vs 550ppm).
 
Of course they are not all being fed the same amount of water, I've tuned it so that the containers are pretty light by the end of the day, both by the drip timer length and the valve openings. The coco dries out really quickly outside with the weather we have been having this summer.
 
After reading all your comments it seems pretty obvious that I've been doing it wrong for this plant at least, but I'm thinking that a big part of the problem might be the humidity and a bit stale air in the basement, leading to the plant not transpiring enough. (although I am running an oscillating fan for about 50% of the time) 
I've just taken the cannabis grower bro science to heart and treated the coco like hydro, i.e. always feeding.
 
Thanks again for all your input!
I'll update with some progress in a while.

 

[solid7]

I apologize if my comments weren't clear.  However, from this point going forward, I'll draw the distinction.  
.
Even though everyone says to treat coco like hydro, coco is NOT hydro.  Yes, you have to keep it moist, like any media.  But you do not have to feed it every day.  Even at low concentrations, nutrients can, and will, accumulate, over time.
.
What you are describing as your feeding regiment, I would typically associate to a once per week feeding, in addition to any required waterings.   So, if you for some reason you REALLY wanted to feed every day, you'd need to know how many times you were going to water in a week, and cut your dosage by the amount needed (preferably per package instructions), divided by the number of waterings.
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Also, when I gave you the advice before, i seem to remember it being to correct an overwatering condition - not to set you up on a fertigation schedule.  Again, my apologies for the misunderstanding, but I'm not a daily feeder.

 

[Masher]

Here's a shot of previous over feeding damage still visible.

And now after 3 week flush and then new regrowth.

 

[Scorchio]

I apologize if my comments weren't clear.  However, from this point going forward, I'll draw the distinction.  
.
Even though everyone says to treat coco like hydro, coco is NOT hydro.  Yes, you have to keep it moist, like any media.  But you do not have to feed it every day.  Even at low concentrations, nutrients can, and will, accumulate, over time.
.
What you are describing as your feeding regiment, I would typically associate to a once per week feeding, in addition to any required waterings.   So, if you for some reason you REALLY wanted to feed every day, you'd need to know how many times you were going to water in a week, and cut your dosage by the amount needed (preferably per package instructions), divided by the number of waterings.
.
Also, when I gave you the advice before, i seem to remember it being to correct an overwatering condition - not to set you up on a fertigation schedule.  Again, my apologies for the misunderstanding, but I'm not a daily feeder.

I have spent many years growing and breeding and sex changing a particular plant in Coco.
Daily feeding is not necessary.
You will get a salt build up which needs flushing out.
Go back to basics with a good flush.
Then start again but in moderation.
Healthy new growth is the aim.

 

[Hermansen]

Alright, thanks again to all of you! It's comforting to see those pictures!

I'll try to calculate a much lighter feeding schedule going forwards. (The amount I am feeding is already 1/4 strength of the recommendation on the bottle, but it's always good to get a reminder that they are trying to sell as much fertilizer as possible)

I was also able to get my hands on some pyrethrum today, but unfortunately/amazingly spinosad is more strictly controlled here. I think I'll try to start with some soapy water to spare the bees that happen to be nearby first.

 

[Scorchio]

Plants are quite complicated things.
Let's take a Chilli like...let's say Moruga Scorpion and another plant like....let's say Pineapple Express.
Within that strain are what are called "Pheno types".
Like some kids might have ginger hair in a family.
Sub divisions of strains can then be used for selection of certain traits for breeding purposes.
One plant may be intolerant to high nutrient levels for example.
Point being they all differ.....like not all kids in families look the same.
Flush and start over.
I am 99% sure you have just over done it.

 

[solid7]

I'll try to calculate a much lighter feeding schedule going forwards. (The amount I am feeding is already 1/4 strength of the recommendation on the bottle, but it's always good to get a reminder that they are trying to sell as much fertilizer as possible)e.

 
Every time you run a concentrated solution, you're just adding nutrients upon nutrients to whatever you put in there before, that hasn't been used.  And, if you've already locked out nutrient uptake, you're just making the problem progressively worse.
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Have you flushed the affected plant?
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Have you done a slurry test?

 

[Masher]

Alright, thanks again to all of you! It's comforting to see those pictures!

I'll try to calculate a much lighter feeding schedule going forwards. (The amount I am feeding is already 1/4 strength of the recommendation on the bottle, but it's always good to get a reminder that they are trying to sell as much fertilizer as possible)

STOP feeding. Switch to plain water for at least 2 weeks+.

The plants are choking on all those nutes.

Flush out the soil and let them heal...might even need 3 weeks.

Solid is giving great advice/info

Happy growing

 

[AndyW]

It's much better to underfeed than overfeed. There's nothing wrong with plain water and using a more diluted nutrient isn't going to flush very effectively vs water. The point is to rinse out the nutrient that's already there, so why add more?

 

[Hermansen]

 
Every time you run a concentrated solution, you're just adding nutrients upon nutrients to whatever you put in there before, that hasn't been used.  And, if you've already locked out nutrient uptake, you're just making the problem progressively worse.
.
Have you flushed the affected plant?
.
Have you done a slurry test?

Yeah, gave it a thorough flushing yesterday. I didn't take any measurements this time, it just slipped my mind for some reason.
 
The last time I did a slurry test was about a month ago right before the last time I flushed it.
Both that slurry test and the run-off after 5L came out at around 150ppms and a pH of ~6.5. I didn't really think these measurments the last time made much sense, as it already looked like it was overfed and the nutrient solution is always pH'ed to right below 6. I'm pretty sure now that I didn't dig deep enough in the coco for the sample because I didn't want to damage the roots, and probably the run-off I measured was too soon, so a lot of it was just the water I used to flush going straight through before everything was completely wet. 
 
The last time I flushed I tried to do it indoors, so I don't think I used enough water. This time I used around 5x the volume of the container and had some pauses inbetween, so I think it got rinsed out a lot better. (About 10L container, so 50L of flushing water)
 
 

STOP feeding. Switch to plain water for at least 2 weeks+.

The plants are choking on all those nutes.

Flush out the soil and let them heal...might even need 3 weeks.

Solid is giving great advice/info

Happy growing

It's much better to underfeed than overfeed. There's nothing wrong with plain water and using a more diluted nutrient isn't going to flush very effectively vs water. The point is to rinse out the nutrient that's already there, so why add more?

 
Thanks. To clarify, my comment about the lighter feeding schedule going forwards, it was meant for after I had flushed and fed it straight water for a while

 

[AndyW]

That makes more sense, but imo it wouldn't hurt to stick with watering with plain water for a while to see if the plant improves. I can't really think of anyone who feeds at every watering either.

 

[Hermansen]

I see your points regarding not feeding every time, but a lot of the fun in this whole ordeal for me is trying to engineer an automatic set up, where I'd only refill a reservoir once every 2 weeks or so. It would be possible to do it in a different way of course, and make a separate reservoir with plain water running on alternating timers, or even just have a container with pre-mixed nutrient solution that I used to hand water like once a week and the rest of the time use the plain water reservoir. 
That actually sounded pretty good when I typed it out. Less maintenance and risk of salt buildup in the drip valves etc. as well. I guess it's time to rethink 
 
It's probably not ideal to start out like this, before having done a grow in soil with hand watering etc. a couple of times first, but I'm not a particularly patient person, and so I'm just going through different hydro solutions and various ways of using them for almost every new variety.
 
Also, I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but I guess you would all recommend me to step down the feeding a lot on my other outdoor coco plants, even if I think they look like they are doing good for now?
 
Did a slurry test for one of them yesterday, and it came out with a pH of 5.8 and ppm of ~900 - I'm feeding with a ppm of 700.
This most definitely points to the need for a flush and at least milder solution, maybe even some plain water for a while for these plants as well?
 
 

 

[solid7]

trying to engineer an automatic set up

If you want to "engineer" a solution, then you must think like an actual engineer.   Which would be highly contradictory to the next statement...
 

I'm not a particularly patient person

 
That is a big obstacle to overcome.
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I definitely think you answered your own question on the reduced feeding for outside plants.