Heat vs Pain in Hot Peppers

Nigel

Nigel

I was asked recently about why or how do I differentiate between Heat and Pain when eating superhot peppers. I wondered what other might experience, so let me know if it`s just me or whether you can detect differences in peppers between pure heat and pure pain.
 
Here`s how I replied to the question.
 
 
I feel there are at least 2 different sensations. One is heat, one is pain.
 
If I stick a knife in my tongue, I don`t feel any heat. If I drink something that is way too hot a temperature I feel both heat and pain. If it`s only normal coffee-hot I feel heat, but no pain. Make sense?
 
With hot peppers there can be both hot and painful sensations, at least I think so. With the very hottest, the initial sensation is like drinking something way too hot. You get both heat and pain. I find that the 2 sensations decay at different rates. Heat always dissipates first, leaving behind the pain. In some cases there is a ton of heat, like Judy`s Brown Moruga, but that decays and leaves little to no pain. In the case of the Madballz 7, the pain is far greater than the heat. Most superhots have a combination, but it is very variable. 
 
I also think there is a direct link, with me, between how painful a pepper is and the endorphin rush, but not how hot it is. I got a very mild endorphin rush that didn`t last very long with the Brown Moruga, even though it was insanely hot. The Madballz 7 gave me a huge endorphin rush and I was literally high for about 45 minutes afterwards, but it was nowhere near as hot as the Brown Moruga. 
 
 
 
Nigel said:
I was asked recently about why or how do I differentiate between Heat and Pain when eating superhot peppers. I wondered what other might experience, so let me know if it`s just me or whether you can detect differences in peppers between pure heat and pure pain.
 
Here`s how I replied to the question.
 
 
I feel there are at least 2 different sensations. One is heat, one is pain.
 
If I stick a knife in my tongue, I don`t feel any heat. If I drink something that is way too hot a temperature I feel both heat and pain. If it`s only normal coffee-hot I feel heat, but no pain. Make sense?
 
With hot peppers there can be both hot and painful sensations, at least I think so. With the very hottest, the initial sensation is like drinking something way too hot. You get both heat and pain. I find that the 2 sensations decay at different rates. Heat always dissipates first, leaving behind the pain. In some cases there is a ton of heat, like Judy`s Brown Moruga, but that decays and leaves little to no pain. In the case of the Madballz 7, the pain is far greater than the heat. Most superhots have a combination, but it is very variable. 
 
I also think there is a direct link, with me, between how painful a pepper is and the endorphin rush, but not how hot it is. I got a very mild endorphin rush that didn`t last very long with the Brown Moruga, even though it was insanely hot. The Madballz 7 gave me a huge endorphin rush and I was literally high for about 45 minutes afterwards, but it was nowhere near as hot as the Brown Moruga. 
 
 
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I'd say you're spot-on, in my opinion. And just like with other form of pain, it seems to last longer if you're anticipating it, rather than it being unexpected. The more worked up you are, the longer it'll last. Aka to getting a piercing, I find - only I never got the endorphin rush afterwards when getting pierced that I do from the peppers. lol
 
Naga Chomper said:
No real heat (temperature) = no pain.
 
Just a bio reaction with surprisingly memorable placebo pain.
 
Cap cramps?  Different story.
 
That shit effin' HURTS.
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Sorry, but I don`t agree with that at all. In fact it`s biologically incorrect. 
 
Nociception (perception of pain) can mediated via neurological pathways linked to activation of the TRPV1 receptor (capsaicin receptor).
 
The way capsaicin works is to lower the temperature threshold when those receptors activate the linked neurological pathways, so no change in temperature still gives the sensation of heat by changing how the receptors work. Your brain detects that exactly the same as really high temperatures. You might not suffer the physiological effects of being burned in the immediate area (blisters etc),  but as far as your brain is concerned, it is exactly the same thing. Exactly.
 
As there are both heat-detecting neurons and pain-detecting neurons associated with TRPV1, the question is, how do different peppers give different sensations of heat and/or pain?
 
Placebo it ain`t. That`s why capsaicin, it`s analogues and resiniferatoxin are currently doing well in clinical trials as anti-pain medications. 
 
mr-t-reaction-rolling-eyes-car-a-team-13785109779.gif
 
Think of pepper powder in your eye. Hurts like a mofo right? Or on your wiener from your hands... it burrrrrrnnnnnnnssssssss, same as battery acid. You want that pain to go AWAY! So yes, it is pain. In the mouth, enjoyable pain. Combined with endorphins and flavor.
 
Umm pepper spray anyone? How can anyone say there is no pain?
 
But we like it. We're all sadists. Admit it.

Naga Chomper said:
No real heat (temperature) = no pain.
Click to expand...
 
Nonsense!
 
So much for sarcasm.
 
Pardon me for not taking the pseudo science approach to humor.
 
Let me try again here:
 
The act of ingesting a capsaicin chinense variety often results in a variety of noticeable reactionary maladies. Capsaicin is a highly irritable compound which easily but selectively bind to a protein known as TRPV1 that resides on the membranes of pain and heat sensing neurons. The symptoms of consumption start immediately. The nasal cavity often secretes watery mucous, followed by profuse tearing, and salivary gland overproduction. The oral cavity becomes slightly engorged, and somewhat irritated as the body attempts to reject what it perceives as possible ingestion of a harmful substance. In some clinical cases, all of those symptoms are also accompanied by prodigious amounts of perspiration. Capsaicin is also hydrophobic, rendering the body's defenses somewhat ineffective at repelling it. The feeling is that of a burning sensation. However, actual tissue damage rarely occurs.
 
Repeated high dosage creates a dulling condition when the neurons are depleted of neurotransmitters. However, by ceasing the high dosage, the neurons recover fully.
 
Since the capsaicin is ingested orally, one could say the pain was all in their head.
 
Naga Chomper said:
Since the capcaisin is ingested orally, one could say the pain was all in their head.
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Okay man, next time someone says it hurts, and they can't take the pain, tell them to see a shrink. :lol:
 
The Hot Pepper said:
 
Okay man, next time someone says it hurts, and they can't take the pain, tell them to see a shrink. :lol:
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I'm game, as long as the next time someone says it's incredibly hot but there's no pain, they see a proctologist. :P
 
True!
 
The most pain I've experienced is definitely from extracts, and taste testing extract sauces, multiple times, back to back... 20 minutes later... serious, and I mean serious abdominal pain, and my arm or arms went numb, I was like "I can't feel my arms" curled up in a ball debating an ambulance call.
 
As far as eating, I enjoy it. I do believe there is "actual" pain though. It just depends on your threshold. The chemical doesn't change from your eye to your mouth, and we can all agree in your eye... that is PAIN! A much more sensitive mucous membrane though. Lemon juice would hurt as well.
 
One can argue what makes it enjoyable, but it is definitely a sensation. The burn. The rush. The pain. The high. But I think we can all agree we enjoy it, for one or some of those reasons.

I think with my threshold, it it not painful.
 
Just got powder in my eye while working with some fresh ones. Sumbeech to type with 1 eye closed and raining, but I have to say I have come to enjoy and embrace it when it comes rather then gripe and fear it. I hate to be a grammar person, especially in this thread, but..
The Hot Pepper said:
We're all sadistsmasochists. Admit it.
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FIFY
 
Ah yes, the pepper is the sadist.
 
That's not grammar that's familiarity with S&M. ;)
 
I heard of someone got painted in the face with a  product called Alaska Guard. From what I understand its the only ultra hot pepper certified spray for use on Grizzly bears. All that I know, is it must have hurt like u know what.
 
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/guard-alaska-bear-defense-spray-with-bonus-holster.aspx?a=605484
 
Could you imagine if someone extracted the cap. from a morunga brown and canned it for use as a pepper spray. Then formulate it with a solvent & surfactant system, that would take the oils of the cap, causing it too disperse and penetrate the pores of the skin.
 
man alive that could stop a charging rhino  :fireball:
 
Well, since Justaguy brought out the grammar police,  I'll point out that-
 
CAPSAICIN is one of many CAPSAICINOIDS found in chiles.  Each chile has varying degrees of the different capsaicinoids and the different capsaicinoids feel different in the mouth and create different responses from the body.  Which is why some chiles will feel like a slow growing burn, some are an instant sharp smack, some are the quintessential "caning" or "back-o-ma-throat".   Google it or maybe one of our resident science pros will add more about capsaicinoids.
 
And .... The Boss and JAG are both Correct.  ;)     
 
http://www.sabrered.com/PDFs/University-of-UTAH-Study.pdf

While the different capsaicinoids have the potential to act differently, there is little evidence to suggest how they act differently in a physiological environment, i.e. your mouth. 
 
Not all effects of capsaicinoids are mediated by the TRPV1 receptor, but some are through an unidentified pathway,
 
http://chemse.oxfordjournals.org/content/30/suppl_1/i198.full

The title says it all.
 



The capsaicin receptor: a
heat-activated ion channel
in the pain pathway. 



 
http://www.hysafe.org/science/eAcademy/docs/Nature_v389_p816to824.pdf
 
salsalady said:
Which is why some chiles will feel like a slow growing burn, some are an instant sharp smack, some are the quintessential "caning" or "back-o-ma-throat".
Click to expand...
 
That's a bunch oh of hooey! Has to do with the size of the pepper, the type of pepper and cap %, and how you chew it. There is no pepper that just hits the back of the throat. No way. It can, the way you chew it, but that doesn't make it a back of the throat burner only.

That's like saying this honey is sweet but only on the left side of the tongue.
 
Sorry boss, gotta disagree 100%.  Different peppers hit different pain receptors in your mouth.  I have never had  bhut burn the tip of my tongue immediately the way a cayenne or fatalii does. 
 
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