HeatMiser's Keeping it Simple With Old Seeds 2020 Grow

HeatMiser · May 12, 2020

Thanks Paul,

It's interesting because the symptoms are not consistent with overwatering, which was my first thought. If you experienced something similar in soil, I take that as more evidence that overwatering might not be the real cause. This seems to be more consistent with shock... but still the root cause remains a mystery. The plants that did this did so as soon as they started flowering.

How long did your plants take to recover? It's been about a month since my chiltepins started dropping their leaves. They are coming back, but I don't think I'll have the same patience with an ornamental...

CaneDog · May 12, 2020

That's very odd and has to be frustrating. The times I've see leaf drop like that is bringing a plant into a heated house from the cold outside at the end of the season, which wouldn't seem analogous. The only idea I'd have to speed up recovery would be pruning back limbs, but that's merely an idea. I'm not sure what it would or wouldn't do in your situation.

HeatMiser · May 12, 2020

Thanks CD, and I agree, bringing a plant indoors at the end of the season will trigger this kind of leaf drop. So will a generous spraying of neem oil when battling aphids. I've experienced both, but never something like this....

I will prune that backup quite a bit just to experiment a little, but I've mostly given up on the Twilights this year.

I've started some other seeds in rockwool as a backup for the Twilights. I don't know what they are, since I picked them up at an Asian grocery store - most likely some type of Thai pepper. But I will be air pruning it to see if it makes a difference in a long-term grow in the same type of small container that those other peppers are growing in. Mostly in preparation for the next grow...

Did you have success with air pruning your plants this year? How are those plants doing?

CaneDog · May 13, 2020

Yep, Neem OD would too, definitely.

The air pruning didn't work great for me, HM, but I see others do it with great success. I'm sure I'll try it again with fewer plants and try to get the method down. The root growth I saw was slow in quite a few cases and many continued to be slow for a time after transplant to soil. Most are doing great now. I still have a couple that look perfectly healthy, but just aren't putting on size like they should be. And a third I guess - the first of the TX Tepin to sprout. It's been surpassed by the 2 that sprouted well later, which are doing great. My best guess is my heat and humidity weren't high enough, particularly heat, at least those are a couple changes I'll focus on next time.

Asian Grocery Peppers, huh? Should be interesting. Did you score them at the H Mart?

HeatMiser · May 13, 2020

Yup, Asian Grocery Peppers. Picked from the Asian Food Center in Aurora, date unknown, but it was certainly more than 6 years ago, haha.

I asked about air pruning since the big TS I have was kept in its rockwool cube the longest since it didn't want to poke its roots through the bottom. It's definitely the plant with the most robust root system now, so there might be some truth to that method. Hopefully you can nail it down next time.

BTW - took the kayak out last weekend to pester some trout. Did well early in the morning but after an hour or so, it was one car after the next. The boat ramp quickly became a zoo, so I got more concerned about how to get out and avoid people rather than fishing. I guess fishing pressure should peter out once pent-up demand is satisfied...

Devv · May 15, 2020

Hello HM,

2 things I see, whether my 2 pennies matter, is food for thought.

The light on the Scorpion (?) is too close and not able to satisfy the whole plant.

The plants dropping leaves look way too dark green. Perhaps a few days of 25% nutrient ratio may help?

The exploding pod: Stopping showing them the Alien movie :shh:

<-- that's a first for me..

I never run out of pennies..LOL

HeatMiser · May 16, 2020

Devv said:
Hello HM,

2 things I see, whether my 2 pennies matter, is food for thought.

The light on the Scorpion (?) is too close and not able to satisfy the whole plant.

The plants dropping leaves look way too dark green. Perhaps a few days of 25% nutrient ratio may help?

The exploding pod: Stopping showing them the Alien movie <-- that's a first for me..

I never run out of pennies..LOL

Thanks Dev! The light on the scorpion is something I've considered and I pulled the trigger earlier this week, switching it for the HLG 100 sitting about 18" over the top of the canopy. It has already outgrown the Sansi light it was raised under.

The plants dropping leaves - I will try anything at this point, haha. Those plants are now experiments. Will dilute the nutrients and see where that takes them.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

HeatMiser · May 16, 2020

Well, finally some good news

One of the chiltepins and one of the TS are coming back to life now. The more frequent nutrient changes are definitely helping and I'm keeping a schedule rather than just wait for the nutrient to drop down to a certain level. Also, in my quest for getting the TS to set pods, I have replaced the Sansi light it was under for the HLG100. It's become increasingly evident that a plant that big needs some more oomph in the amount of light it gets. Devv has also confirmed this. Hopefully I'll see some improvements in pollen production/pod setting in the next few weeks.

Some pics
TS - now under HLG100. The plant is now 2.5 ft tall and about as much wide. Still only one pod, haha

Chiltepin - Finally some actual leaves coming.

DWC Jalafuego and TS under T5 lights
New growth is now evident in the TS after a month of looking like s**t. I'm excited about this plant since it should confirm whether the big TS needed more light for the pods to take.

Close-up of the new growth on main stem:

There are some bigger leaves coming out of another branch:

Kratky Jalafuego and TS under T5 lights
Nothing much here - the Jalafuego is still focusing on developing pods. The TS is a week or two behind the other plant with regards to new growth, so hopefully I'll have some good news to share with regards to this plant in the next post or two

And finally, a question
Both of my Jalafuego plants have most pods looking like this

This must be from the screwing up the nutrients about a month ago. The plants are not putting out more leaves at the moment. I'm wondering if the peppers will turn out fine or if it would make sense to cut some of these pods off to promote more growth, either vegetative or better looking pods.

CaneDog · May 16, 2020

That's crazy how much potential with the TS under the HLG100, but only one pod. Hopefully it will get busy soon. Re your question, I think I'd lean toward some pruning and bad-pod removal, myself - just my $0.02 to go into your change jar along with all of Devv's pennies.

And, hey, I meant to ask. Where did you take your kayak trout fishing the other day, Lake Sammamish? Cutt's or Rainbows?

HeatMiser · May 17, 2020

CaneDog said:
That's crazy how much potential with the TS under the HLG100, but only one pod. Hopefully it will get busy soon. Re your question, I think I'd lean toward some pruning and bad-pod removal, myself - just my $0.02 to go into your change jar along with all of Devv's pennies.

And, hey, I meant to ask. Where did you take your kayak trout fishing the other day, Lake Sammamish? Cutt's or Rainbows?

Thanks CD!

To be fair, the TS has been under the Sansi since it was a seedling. I just moved it under the HLG100 to see if this will help with flower drop.

I took the kayak to Lk Alice chasing after rainbows. I thought a smaller lake would be less busy, but it was a zoo anyway! I did manage to snap a pic before people started coming in...

And hey, I appreciate all the pennies. Never a bad thing to hear people's opinions and experiences!

HeatMiser · May 17, 2020

Early harvest - deformed jalafuegos

The inside of the peppers seems to be OK, and there's a little bit of heat, but the walls are really thin.

Hopefully this causes the plant to redirect its energy towards the better pods and new leaves.

PaulG · May 17, 2020

Really odd corking on those pods, HM.
Is that normal? Never had any experience
with the Jalafuegos. Those are really packed
with seeds!

HeatMiser · May 17, 2020

PaulG said:
Really odd corking on those pods, HM.
Is that normal? Never had any experience
with the Jalafuegos. Those are really packed
with seeds!

That corking is not normal Paul. In fact, the Jalafuegos don't usually cork!

I think this was a result of the plant not uptaking nutrients properly for a while, which dried out the pods from the outside. Once the problem was fixed, the peppers kept growing on the inside, but couldn't stretch properly. It definitely is an odd situation. I still have some good-looking pods on the plant, so I hope those will turn out fine.

PaulG · May 18, 2020

HeatMiser said:
That corking is not normal Paul. In fact, the Jalafuegos don't usually cork!

I think this was a result of the plant not uptaking nutrients properly for a while, which dried out the pods from the outside. Once the problem was fixed, the peppers kept growing on the inside, but couldn't stretch properly. It definitely is an odd situation. I still have some good-looking pods on the plant, so I hope those will turn out fine.

Agree with that!

Thanks for the backstory.
Will be following this one with interest, HM!

HeatMiser · May 19, 2020

I've been noticing these little black spots on some leaves of my big TS. The plant is doing great except for the flower drop, but I'm wondering if this is something I should be concerned of. From my research, bacterial leaf spot seems unlikely since the spots look different and this plant has been grown indoors.

This leaf is one of the biggest ones at the bottom of the plant. Some younger leaves show these spots too, but not as many.

CaneDog · May 19, 2020

Huh, that's odd. I know with many "spot" infections an active border of a different color/shade can be an indicator or the appearance of a tan center to the spots, but that might not be discernible with such small spots. Also, some "spots" are fungal rather than bacterial and high humidity and lower temperature can contribute. And lack of air circulation. Maybe that might affect leaves down near the reservoir. Not saying that's what it is - just considering possibilities. I'd probably consider removing the leaves and ramping up the air circulation if I thought it should be higher. Then seeing if any new leaves developed the same.

Just my $0.02. Maybe someone will chime in who actually knows what it is. That a great-looking plant. I hope there's no issue with it.

HeatMiser · May 19, 2020

CaneDog said:
Huh, that's odd. I know with many "spot" infections an active border of a different color/shade can be an indicator or the appearance of a tan center to the spots, but that might not be discernible with such small spots. Also, some "spots" are fungal rather than bacterial and high humidity and lower temperature can contribute. And lack of air circulation. Maybe that might affect leaves down near the reservoir. Not saying that's what it is - just considering possibilities. I'd probably consider removing the leaves and ramping up the air circulation if I thought it should be higher. Then seeing if any new leaves developed the same.

Just my $0.02. Maybe someone will chime in who actually knows what it is. That a great-looking plant. I hope there's no issue with it.

Thanks CD, yes - agree on the active border of a different color being a telltale sign of spot infections. These are all black and mostly on older leaves, but some new-ish leaves halfway up the plant have a few as well.

I removed more leaves today (I did remove a few yesterday). I'll see how it progresses. And yes, this is my only good-looking plant, haha, so I'm a little paranoid at this point.

PaulG · May 20, 2020

The larger spots look like they have a sunken center,
so that rules out some kind of powdery mildew or
black soot of some kind, to my way of thinking. The
yellowing leaf margins and appearance of yellowing
spots on the leaf make me think it's a leaf spot of
some kind. I tried to find more info and images that
looked like yours, but nothing exactly like what your
picture shows.

My own 2¢ says bac spot of some kind. Removing leaves
is a good idea. Maybe a spray with a fungicide/Neem mix
might help just as a sort of shotgun approach if there is no
improvement.

Sorry I can't be more definitive. Will keep digging around.

Edit: Is it possible that something you sprayed on the plant
caused the spots?

HeatMiser · May 20, 2020

PaulG said:
The larger spots look like they have a sunken center,
so that rules out some kind of powdery mildew or
black soot of some kind, to my way of thinking. The
yellowing leaf margins and appearance of yellowing
spots on the leaf make me think it's a leaf spot of
some kind. I tried to find more info and images that
looked like yours, but nothing exactly like what your
picture shows.

My own 2¢ says bac spot of some kind. Removing leaves
is a good idea. Maybe a spray with a fungicide/Neem mix
might help just as a sort of shotgun approach if there is no
improvement.

Sorry I can't be more definitive. Will keep digging around.

Edit: Is it possible that something you sprayed on the plant
caused the spots?

Thanks Paul,

I must add that I attribute the yellowing of the leaves to a nute issue that has been fixed. So first the plant got the yellowing edges, and the spots came afterwards. Probably should have clarified that.

I did a search around the site, and the closest I could find was this:

http://thehotpepper.com/topic/72801-is-this-the-dreaded-bacterial-leaf-spot/?hl=%2Bleaf+%2Bspot

Also grown hydroponically, similar leaf structure.

HeatMiser · May 22, 2020

Well, finally getting to enjoy some peppers, and since PaulG asked about those gnarly looking Jalafuegos...

Since we're having nachos tonight, I decided to check one of the not-so-bad looking pods from one of the Jalafuego plants to see if they are growing fine on the inside or if we should just pick them all and wait for more fruit to set.

This was the chosen one - the bottom part of the pepper has that corking, but the top part seemed to be growing fine

Slicing the bottom part of the pepper, we can see much thicker walls than the ones I previously posted. So far so good

The top part looks a lot better

Biting into it, you get a good Jalapeno flavor with a nice kick! That's what we were looking for... Definitely much hotter than store-bought ones.

Even though this is not a very good-looking specimen both in terms of size and looks, it's good enough for eating. At least I now know that I can remove the remaining pods as needed. This should help those plants put some more green growth, which they haven't done in a while.