hydroponic Hydroponics for dummie Pfeffer

hogleg said:
 
You sure know a lot about hydro for someone who doesn't know about the many uses of Sm-90. You must do a lot of reading QQ. Oh and one more thing I think your a Dick also.
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thats fine. you said as much earlier.
i dont recall any conversations between yourself and me...but i have a hard time with names( tho i do better with the avatars).
 
i do read alot.
 
Hogleg I'd never heard of sm90 either but I source most my stuff (Mycorrihzae, sm6, fytocel, etc) direct from greenhouse suppliers not from Hydroponic grow shops or wholesalers so my products are often branded differently also all the products I use I know are food certified I would not want to eat chillies grown out with Canna nutrients and PGR laced boosters.
 
SM90 might be a US thing but if it's a wetter it's probably yukka extract which changes the surface tension of water. I would be interested to know what concentration of yukka extract I can get very pure stuff direct from manufacturer but it's expensive potentially the price of SM90 is very good depending on concentrations.
 
By law in the UK (And the EU I think) SM90 would have to have it's active ingredients listed on the bottle (Although the law is flaunted all the times by hydro products in grow shops.) if a product doesn't have it's ingredients listed I distrust it and would not retail the product or use it myself.
 
Hi VC,
 
Regarding those mycorrihzae, I figure you can't use them with hydroponics - But does that stuff work? And is it safe to use with veggies?
 
Pfeffer said:
Hi VC,
 
Regarding those mycorrihzae, I figure you can't use them with hydroponics - But does that stuff work? And is it safe to use with veggies?
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Yes it works in hydro very well and yes it's food safe all my products are food safe I don't source my products from the grow shop wholesalers I source them from commerical greenhouse wholesalers. I went to a lot of effort to source food safe products as I'm aiming my products at food growers not the illicit market.
 
You pay postage I'll send you 300g's Mycorrihzae free to test and 250ml of sm6 both food safe, the SM6 is organically certified UK.
 
queequeg152 said:
oh a reading comprehension jab. boy my supposed diatribe must have stung. perhaps you should pick apart my grammer and spelling as well.


i asked you, in the if it was meant for only organic grows, and if you knew how it worked.

then i asked why should the OP, in a non organic grow bother with such a thing.

prior to that i asked if it was a regular disinfectant like bleach, just repackaged as something else, as i understand they do.
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You do act the fool when it pleases, but I've had sand in my knickas for awhile now and catch myself reacting to imaginary blubbery.

Vertically Challenged said:
Hogleg I'd never heard of sm90 either but I source most my stuff (Mycorrihzae, sm6, fytocel, etc) direct from greenhouse suppliers not from Hydroponic grow shops or wholesalers so my products are often branded differently also all the products I use I know are food certified I would not want to eat chillies grown out with Canna nutrients and PGR laced boosters.
 
SM90 might be a US thing but if it's a wetter it's probably yukka extract which changes the surface tension of water. I would be interested to know what concentration of yukka extract I can get very pure stuff direct from manufacturer but it's expensive potentially the price of SM90 is very good depending on concentrations.
 
By law in the UK (And the EU I think) SM90 would have to have it's active ingredients listed on the bottle (Although the law is flaunted all the times by hydro products in grow shops.) if a product doesn't have it's ingredients listed I distrust it and would not retail the product or use it myself.
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Explained above, and listed on the bottle, coriander, sulphonated canola oil, triethylamine, sold as a fungicide that supposedly only effects anaerobes.
 
SM6 would be comparable to liquid Maxicrop or another such concentrated kelp extract.
 
Curiousity, what supplier are you using for a mycorrhizal fungi innoculant?
 
Sm-90 is not certified organic. If it interest you, I suggest look at the ingredient list and look up how they are derived. Then, judge for yourself if its safe for food. The reason I suggest it, is because its been in my repertoire for over a decade. I've seen it turn bad root pathogens around when it seemed all was lost. And a great preventive of bad pathogens as well as keeps irrigation lines clean. As Mig said dont waste it as a folliar. Use it as a additive to nutes 1ml-2ml per gallon. Also IMO I would never run multiple plants in slabs of RW. That system is prone to root rot IMO unless you use sm90 :rofl:
 
I use a UK supplier (Made in UK to) it's not brand anyone would have heard of I'm branding it Myco+ simply because I need to brand it something.
 
It's 8 strains (I think have to check that was a while ago I sourced the stuff) of myco & over 20 different bacteria for the rootzone in a hydro application I assum the bacteria will do bugger all I used it on all the plants I grow for quite some time now. I know it has nitrogen fixers in it but how much use I see is debateable as I grow hydroponically.
 
I know a lot of Myco did come from Canada until recently in the UK but now it's produced on large scales over here.
 
hogleg said:
IMO I would never run multiple plants in slabs of RW. That system is prone to root rot IMO unless you use sm90 :rofl:
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that opinion is without merit, greenhouses all over the world do just that, and achieve truely remarkable results.
3 plants in each slab. you can grow tomatos, three of them 30+ feet tall in a single slab under the right circumstances.
 
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they do not use sm90, nor do they necessarily use chlorine or other disinfectants either.
for the most part, from what i understand, chlorine tends to only be injected into recirculated systems.
in a reg. DTW setup,  as far as i can tell, they use it only intermittently to sanitize poly pipe and what have you. the only exceptions being cases where the greenhouses are using surface water, or otherwise contaminated water.
 
 
regarding bacteria and fungi for hydro. what is the point? as i understand it, these organisms are supposed to aide in the biological break down ammonium and other minerals, so as to make them available to plants? the hydro nutrients however are already in a readily absorbable form, save for a small amount of ammonium in some bottled fertilizers. 
and dont these organisms need to feed on organic matter to survive in the first place?
 
ive heard of some symbiotic fungi that help trees take in more water by essentially growing a sheath over roots thereby increasing their effective size among other things. is that what these organisms are supposed to do?
 
queequeg152 said:
 
regarding bacteria and fungi for hydro. what is the point? as i understand it, these organisms are supposed to aide in the biological break down ammonium and other minerals, so as to make them available to plants? the hydro nutrients however are already in a readily absorbable form, save for a small amount of ammonium in some bottled fertilizers. 
and dont these organisms need to feed on organic matter to survive in the first place?
 
ive heard of some symbiotic fungi that help trees take in more water by essentially growing a sheath over roots thereby increasing their effective size among other things. is that what these organisms are supposed to do?
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Mycorrihzae is a symbiotic fungi that lives on the roots, drastically increasing surface area of the roots which enables it to absorb more nutrients and more water than without.
 
They will happily live on hydroponic nutrition they're are not suitable for recirculation (Sorry Pfeffer I forgot that) as the fungi will grow inside the reservoir and clog the dripper lines it is DTW compatible only.
 
In a hydroponic application real world means you can drop your ec's and still get super healthy plants I never took my EC's over 1.2.
 
SM6 is a super concentrated 30% seaweed maxicrop is 8% I think the real advantage of the seaweed extracts are the macro nutrients again healthy plant with lower ec's.
 
Myco is well worth using in pots ( Rockwool too I'm sure) but when used in the ground to treat soil you will see miracles :)
 
Myco form a symbiotic relationship with 95% of plants tested so far.
 
http://www.planetnatural.com/product/mykos-mycorrhizal-inoculant/
 
that price is very good I cannot compete with that price in the EU BUT you do not need 1kg that will treat acres I'm going to sell it in 100g tubs which is enough to treat 30-50 plants in pot.
 
If you want to KISS you really don't need anything other than A&B and ph down and you can get excellent results.
 
Vertically Challenged said:
 
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regarding the myco and helping plants drink more.
can you perhaps reference anything regarding that particulart mode of action? forgive my skepticism but Ive found  lots of info about myco and bennificial bacteria previously, but it always turns out to be wildly overstated, or provably wrong.
 
on the other hand, if the product is half as good as people claim it to be( something i doubt), i would surly like to incorporate it into my dealings.
 
like i said above im aware of your assertion, but only in the case of some specific trees, and the impression i got was that the fungi helped the trees obtain more water from the soil than they would otherwise naturally, due to dry conditions.
 
do you think that is the case when there is an abundance of water available to the plants?
 
with respect to hydro. this stuff as far as ive seen, always seemed to be a marketing product.... like the HP promix with added myco etc.
 
i dont doubt that a strong innoculant of microbes to something like a semi sterilized compost... as if gets so god damned hot, can do wonders, but from what ive read, most unsterilized soils contain adequate populations already, and need no tremendous infusion.... they just need the food(organic material) to multiply.
edit:
 
i actually just found a small study that supports your claim, tho they used osmocote, not hydro nutrients.
 
all seems to be related to california native species of tree and brush. 
 
http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_PLANTMATERIALS/publications/capmctn489.pdf
 
Myccorhizae are also widely used for planting roses. The roots are "occupied" by good fungi and therefore fight of some bacterial pathogens (penicillin effect).
 
Myco is compatible with most plants (Including Chillies, Toamtoes, Cucumbers, Strawberries)  if you use generous sized pots (Or rockwool slabs)  you will probably not notice much difference but if you intend to grow plants for several months in the same pot or treat the ground you will notice a difference.
 
The way it was explained to me was to think with myco a 4l root system is more comparible with an 8l root system.
 
Myco really comes into it's own if you reuse your media (Which I do) I always see a 10-15% increase in yield on my second use of a media when it's been treated with myco the first time.
 
I believe so much in the power of Myco I'm going to give away enough with every grow system I sell to treat media for one grow so people can make there own call on whether they think it's worth purchasing.
 
I'm a big believer you should make your own informed choices and all I can do is tell you (And sell you) what works for me.
 
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