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hydroponic Hydroponics for dummie Pfeffer
- Thread starter Pfeffer
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I understand it's just a small health risk, in my area the water is treated with oxygen/ozon and UV. It's far superior to chlorine. I'm not that scared of HCl as it just adds very minor amounts of chlorine. Same goes for phosperic acid (you'd be surprised how much of this stuff you consume each year -> It's one of the ingredients of cola). I consumed my fair share of chlorinated (water purifying tabs) and I'm still alive, atleast I certainly hope so. I'm not much of a tree hugger, but if I have the choice to do something without chemicals I'm sure it's better. In case of drinkwater it's mainly because of pathogens like salmonella and e.coli, cholera is not much of a risk here. But well, Chlorine is a good allround desinfectant.. and besides.. it's CHEAP.
Unfortunately most raw chemicals are hard to comeby here (legislation.. mostly because of synthetic drugs production) or very expensive. I don't think there are any additives in store bought "cleaning" HCl right? (like stabilizers in H²O²). Things like HCl, sodiumhydroxide (deplumbing!) and chlorine are easy to get.. but phosporic acid is only available as de-rusting agent (which might contain a lot more additives that I don't know off). Citric acid is also easy to get, but is organic and might cause shifts in the Ph if I understand you guys correctly?
Does anyone have any good sources for these chemicals (prefebly in the UK due to the postage costs). It's not forbidden to have/buy them, just some chemicals are not allowed to be sold to non-business consumers. Therefore most stores only sell chemicals to business users (just because they are to lazy to check legislation/archive the purchasers).
Unfortunately most raw chemicals are hard to comeby here (legislation.. mostly because of synthetic drugs production) or very expensive. I don't think there are any additives in store bought "cleaning" HCl right? (like stabilizers in H²O²). Things like HCl, sodiumhydroxide (deplumbing!) and chlorine are easy to get.. but phosporic acid is only available as de-rusting agent (which might contain a lot more additives that I don't know off). Citric acid is also easy to get, but is organic and might cause shifts in the Ph if I understand you guys correctly?
Does anyone have any good sources for these chemicals (prefebly in the UK due to the postage costs). It's not forbidden to have/buy them, just some chemicals are not allowed to be sold to non-business consumers. Therefore most stores only sell chemicals to business users (just because they are to lazy to check legislation/archive the purchasers).
ozone water treatment if insanely expensive, power hungry, and inferior to chlorine disinfection. Im going to bet the amount of people on that water systtem is very small compared to an average public water system in texas. it does not have the same disinfection byproducts however, so its superior in that regard.Pfeffer said:
ozone and UV have very very little residual disinfection value, meaning water in an extended distribution system will require ether sucessive treatments, or will potentially be without any disinfection.
im guessing your system is small, not very disbursed, and hence can justify that system, but it would most certainly not fly in a more rural area where water is sent out miles from the water plant.
ironically ozone disinfection systems STILL require chlorine disinfection to clean the piping and disinfect everything prior to opening the pipes to public comsumption = ).
they usually flush them with chlorine solution up to like 40mg/l, hold it for a few hours, then pump fresh water till the levels are below 2mg/l.
i worked on small private water systems for years btw. not an expert, but i do consider myself knowledgeable.
regarding acid.
I dont know what cleaning HCl is. perhaps its a rust remover?
rust removers work by converting oxide of iron into salts of iron which are water soluble and will wash away from the rusted material.
EX:
Hcl applied to rust produces ferric chloride, Sulfuric acid produces ferric sulfate. weak acids can do this as well with phosphoric acid producing iron phosphate, and nitric producing iron nitrate. you can even get citric acid salts of iron.
IMO these products, the rust removers should be just pure acids... plus water and perhaps a gelling agent? i know some are gells for pickling stainless steel, tho perhaps not all are like this.
i would suggest reading the msds on what ever product you propose to use, it should be trivial to find these as they are manditory for most products of that type.
alternativly, since its such a pita to buy legit chemicals, perhaps just buy some more expensive hydro stuff. maby you should spend your hard earned time on other issues rather than running down this and that acid product. idk. sounds like a pita personally.
edit:
by the way, i see this alot, but let me clarify.
bleach is sodium hypochlorite. hypochlorites disassociate into among other things, hypochlorous acid (HClO)
hclo is what does the disinfection, not elemental chlorine. its a huge misconception in the public mind.
the chlorine ion resulting from HCl is called chlorite, Cl-
chlorite is not a disinfectant, not even a little bit. it wont harm anything except in stupid high concentrations where you can get isotonic stress etc.
Our water system is actually quite extensive, but the temps are a lot lower here.. underground pipes get about 11 Celsius as constant temp summer/winter (52 F) so I also think that helps a lot compared to your area. Plus everything here is heavily populated, I figure Houston is huge, but the area surrounding it (I'm only familiar to Brazoria county) is a lot less densely populated.
With cleaning HCl I simply refer to store bought HCl solution (usually 6% - 10%). With additives for the rustremover I indeed mean gelling agents, stabilizers, a sniff of smell nice aroma etc. These are usually not mentioned on the MSDS I think? (as they are not part of the risk).
With cleaning HCl I simply refer to store bought HCl solution (usually 6% - 10%). With additives for the rustremover I indeed mean gelling agents, stabilizers, a sniff of smell nice aroma etc. These are usually not mentioned on the MSDS I think? (as they are not part of the risk).
hot stuff One word
Stunning
you're going to have so much fun.
Also bubbling the reservoir for 24-48 hours will dechlorinate the water.
I wouldn't use pool acid but it's easy to get nitric or phosphoric acid over here in 25l tubs.
1l last's me ~ 5000l's of reservoir.
Stunning
you're going to have so much fun.
Also bubbling the reservoir for 24-48 hours will dechlorinate the water.
I wouldn't use pool acid but it's easy to get nitric or phosphoric acid over here in 25l tubs.
1l last's me ~ 5000l's of reservoir.
I missed that I can see now looks very cool
im condescending because i asked you how it works?miguelovic said:
or because i dont understand why one would want to use it in a non organic grow where more obivious solutions are available?
do you really have access to large quantities of nitric acid? if you do thats surprising given the things ive heard about the uk.Vertically Challenged said:
though i dont condone the nanny state restrictions on chemicals, guess what acid one needs most to make high explosives?
Btw, coming back on those slabs;
Cheapest I can find are the 100 x 15cm ones for €1,65 each (they're on sale). It might be interesting to see what a parcel to the US/UK would cost. www.growxl.nl
Cheapest I can find are the 100 x 15cm ones for €1,65 each (they're on sale). It might be interesting to see what a parcel to the US/UK would cost. www.growxl.nl
you could start an import business = )
queequeg152 said:
That doesn't even make sense. Comprehension increases with reading repetition. Go back to the original quote and start again?
The attitude presented in the original post quoted, and from the general tone of your comments towards organics. Why am I explaining this? Seems quite simple... For the second time, I never suggested using it in a non organic grow, just explained what it is as I understand it. If you want specific mode of action, look it up. Sulphur is going to pop up quickly.
oh a reading comprehension jab. boy my supposed diatribe must have stung. perhaps you should pick apart my grammer and spelling as well.miguelovic said:
i asked you, in the if it was meant for only organic grows, and if you knew how it worked.
then i asked why should the OP, in a non organic grow bother with such a thing.
prior to that i asked if it was a regular disinfectant like bleach, just repackaged as something else, as i understand they do.
queequeg152 said:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nitric-Acid-69-5-Litre-5L-/140573783968?pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Lab_Supplies_ET&hash=item20bad9b7a0
I can order it by the 1000l IBC pretty easy locally to me but ebay is a good example of what's available.
good god man. if you bought 1000l of nitric acid in the states... even at a lower concentration. a swat team would likely boot down your door and shoot your dogs...Vertically Challenged said:
on the otherhand maby im offbase here. nitric acid is used for alot of stuff. perhaps its watched less than i believe.
queequeg152 said:
Is shooting the dogs essential part of checking if your a terrorist lol.
It certainly proves they mean business... : -)
(but please go back on topic, I'm getting alerts)
I figure I'm going to try a semi soil based dripped (DTW) and a rockwool slab based drip (DTW) as DTW seems to most practical way. Just get a pump, reservoir, tubing+connections, slabs with trays and a timer, that should be it right?
(but please go back on topic, I'm getting alerts)
I figure I'm going to try a semi soil based dripped (DTW) and a rockwool slab based drip (DTW) as DTW seems to most practical way. Just get a pump, reservoir, tubing+connections, slabs with trays and a timer, that should be it right?
yea, much of the components you will/should use are identical to what you use on a regular drip irrigation system.Pfeffer said:
poly pipe. inline filters etc.
the timer i use is a simple lawn irrigation box. its programmable down to a single minute.
the only thing i can tell you to be aware of... is that rockwool needs to be watered very frequently at low volumes. so your drippers should be sized such that the volume produced does not exceede your targed, in the minimum time that you can irrigate for.
if i recall correctly,
when slabs out pace other slabs.. you are best off just adding more stakes to the thirsty slab. i would reccomend you get at least two flow rates,
the alternative to this is to simply add more zones, but its not necessary really.
edit:
ok i misspoke i just checked my emitters, and i used 1/2 gph and 1gph emitters. i havent run slabs since that those photos, so im sure you will forgive my error lol.
im trying to think back, and if i recall corectly, i chose very low volume emitters because i was worried about the 1minute minimum time settings on my irrigation controller. AND i was worried my 6gpm pump would not keep up if i chose to scale the system up, but i did not.
if you get something with more time resolution, you can use a much higher volume emitter... just make sure your pump can supply that flow.
just do the math, its all easy as cake.
