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seeds i started seeds to check germination

tjg911

tjg911

i started several fatalli and long red slim cayenne seeds 9 days ago just to test the germination of the seeds and to see if i could get them to germinate. at the time it was 77 to 80 degrees in the house but over the past 4-5 days it's dropped to 63 to 70 at the most and later this week it's going to the lower 40's and 30's at night making it cooler in here. i see nothing happening so far. i have a lot of experience starting seeds of all different vegetable except for peppers. i also know that 9 days is not long enough to give up but since it is so cool in here i think these seeds won't germinate.

i figured since i heat the house with a woodstove and since in late jan and early feb it is usually 75-80 in here i could start my pepper seeds without using a heat mat or any other heat source under the containers. if need be i can move them closer to the woodstove for more heat or place them in a south window for sun if i let the stove burn lower and the temp dropped to say 70 in here.

is this reasonable or am i kidding myself? it seem reasonable that with the stove keeping the air temp in the mid to upper 70's and moving the containers closer to the stove if the air temp is not hot enough, that i can keep the containers as warm as if they had bottom heat. once germinated i think (all the times i use think substitute assume!) that again between air temps and closer to the stove i can keep them warm enough to keep them growing. if need be i can place them very close to the woodstove, no kids or dogs to up end anything just me and i'm careful.

my real concern is moving them under shop lights in the basement. if i start seeds in late jan/early feb i expect germination by mid feb. i could keep the plants in the south windows for the sun but i know that plants really do best under shop lights and eventually they have to go to the basement and that's where the shit hits the fan! by late feb the temp in the basement is going to be a toasty 48 to 52 degrees. now tomatoes do well in early to mid april at 55 degrees once germinated and plants started in feb or march do fine down there but will peppers, hot and sweet, be able to handle 50 degrees? the lights put out some heat, i keep them 1-2" above the top leaves but they are only on 16 hours per day and that 8 hours off there's no heat. if need be i can take them upstairs back near the woodstove over night until the lights come on the next morning.

so you can see i am trying to avoid paying $30+ for a heat mat. i have a setup for using rope lights in sand but that's something i have to make and i'm not sure where to find a rope light that's 3' long vs say 7' based upon what i have been told about this setup.

any ideas? is this doomed to fail once i get to the basement with those temperatures or will it fail upstairs ( think i can get enough heat from the woodstove upstairs it's the basement i'm worried about)? damn peppers are a major pita compared to everything else i have started from seed!

thanks.
 
I am still a rookie at this whole process. That being said, all the threads that ive read, and from my own limited experiance hot peppers need low 80's to germinate. get the soil/paper towel/ziplock to this temp and you are well on your way.The most economical way that you can obtain those conditions is unique to your living arrangements. I wish you great success :)
 
I use 8oz dele plastic containers placed on a heat mat. If the seed is good it will germinate!! Are you opposed to using a heat source that would maintain 85ËšF to achieve optimum germination conditions?
 
The seeds should be okay and 9 days is a bit soon. If they germinate then what will you do? I was about to say build a box using insulating foam board with your shop lights and monitor the temp. but youre spending a few bucks. I have done this in my basement that isnt heated and the plants do okay. Might have to break down Im afraid and buy a pad
 
People use heat mats to be sure of the temp. You can just as easily use a thermometer and find a place somewhere, - on top of the fridge or TV or computer- that stays at the right temp and leave your seeds there.

I get 99% my chilli seeds germinating between 7 to 18 days and after that if nothing has happened yet, it won't ever. I now use a heat mat and presoak the seeds in hydrogen peroxide and chamomile tea which has raised my germination rates but the timing has always remained the same. When I first started I just put them straight in dirt and put the container somewhere warm.
 
At the risk of everyone telling me I was just lucky and it would normally not happen, I start my seeds in soil or jiffy pellets in a mini seed greenhouse. No germinating or heat mat or anything like that, I put them in a south facing window and leave them alone (yes, it's difficult to do that). My house is rarely above 72 in the winter and at night it goes to 62. I check for moisture and occasionally take off the top to reduce any mold or mildew issues. Im not saying I have 99% but I would say at least 75% of my seeds grow, maybe I will do a test for next season.
 
I agree with megamoo, I too use a peroxide soak followed by an overnighter with a mild dose of potassium nitrate,
the germination rate is really good, and after a period of time the ones that haven't sprouted were probably dead to begin with
 
SuperHot said:
I use 8oz dele plastic containers placed on a heat mat. If the seed is good it will germinate!! Are you opposed to using a heat source that would maintain 85ËšF to achieve optimum germination conditions?
Click to expand...

i am not opposed to using a heat mat what i am opposed to is spending money! :lol: i thought (i should check this out to be sure) that a heat mat was small like 12" X 16" and cost around $30. if you have a dozen plants once they are in individual pots a mat that size won't be able to keep them all warm. maybe the heat is just to get them to germinate?


LUCKYDOG said:
The seeds should be okay and 9 days is a bit soon. If they germinate then what will you do? I was about to say build a box using insulating foam board with your shop lights and monitor the temp. but youre spending a few bucks. I have done this in my basement that isnt heated and the plants do okay. Might have to break down Im afraid and buy a pad
Click to expand...

if they germinate i'll toss them, i have no desire to raise them over the winter but i'd like to know if i can do it. starting peppers seems to me, rightly or wrongly, to be like getting a car to do 0-60 in 3.9 seconds, possible but not for me!

i am surprised that some of the replies indicate there is no special attention given to the seeds or methods used other than put seeds into starting mix and wait and without heat to boot!

no one answered my questions about warmth via the woodstove vs being in a cold basement. a big issue for me is a 47 or 50 degree basement in late february going to kill small plants? i have an extra grow light stand and if worse came to worse and the basement is too cold i could set it up in the upstairs near the windows for warmth in a room kept warm in the day and very warm at night.
 
tjg911 said:
maybe the heat is just to get them to germinate?
Click to expand...

yup thats it exactly. once they pop, they will continue to grow at room temp no problem. If you place your seeds in moist paper towels inside ziploc bags, you could probably get 100+ seeds on a 12"x16" heat mat. Transfer them to pots once they sprout.

Someone posted an awesome link outlining how they built a seed starting chamber out of a rubbermaid container and a aquarium heater, maybe try searching for that if you are trying to save dough.
 
Becareful germinating seeds in a basement, that's when "damping off" usually occurs, the soil needs to stay warm, and semi moist not soaked...
 
thanks. i would germinate the seeds upstairs where the air temp would be 72 to 78 since it would be in late jan to early feb. i'd start them either in promix or on a paper towel, not sure yet which. it's once they germinate and i transplant them into 6 packs 1 seedling per cell filled with promix that i question if they can take the 47 to 50 degrees in the basement under shop lights without any heat under them? leaving them upstairs in a window would cause them to get leggy, it only takes a few cloudy days and they start to get leggy.

another question, if i used promix in 6 packs to germinate vs a damp paper towel in a baggy i assume i can put 8-10 seeds of a variety into 1 cell in a 6 pack thereby having 6 different varieties in 1 6 pack and then taking 2-4 seedlings that germinate and transplant them into individual cells in a 6 pack like i do with tomatoes? this allows me to start many varieties with limited 6 packs, each cell having a different pepper. of course each cell needs to be labeled to keep straight which peppers are which.
 
wow! i looked at my peppers and 4 of the 10 fatalli seeds have germinated and tiny plants are pushing thru the promix! the long red slim cayenne still 0 out of 10 seeds.

i am really shocked cuz it has been pretty cool in here for several days in the lower to mid 60's and no bottom heat. maybe this pepper thing is not as hard as i thought! :woohoo:
 
Man, that's a lot of questions.

The heat mat is nice because it provides consistent conditions. But you can germinate stuff anywhere relatively warm. I use the top of my hot water tank. It ranges from 65 to 80F. Works fine.

Once plants are started, I've heard the ideal temp is around 65F for growing. Your basement is probably pushing the lower limits at high 40s, but with the slight amount of heat coming off of shop lights you might be okay.

Why not keep on growing a few of what you've started? Bust out a shop light and see how far along they get. One shop light burning 18 on, 6 off should support 3 or 4 plants for a couple of months. Maybe your sunniest window will come into play later. See what happens, gain additional confidence as you head toward your primary grow in late Jan / Feb. Don't overdo with too many so you don't cause an early growing mess to contend with when it is game time---but maybe target one or two test plants to push through to Spring. Worst case scenario, you'll know what a leggy pepper looks like.

And yes, I also think peppers are the biggest PIA vegetable of them all. It's probably why they are so cool.... :cool:
 
thanks. good news - on 10/4 i had 4 fatalli appear then on 10/6 another 2 popped up and now today 10/7 i'm surprised to see 2 more coming up. that's 8 out of 10 seeds since 9/25. i don't want to toss them, starting seeds is addictive but it's 8 months before i can plant them out! i'm going to transplant them and see how they do.

not 1 of the 10 long red slim cayenne seeds have germinated. both are in the same 6 pack so they have gotten the same treatment. the cayenne seeds were from peppers i have had in the freezer from last fall, could that be the reason?
 
Low night temperatures are ok for germinating imo. ~40F is pretty low but I'm not surprised at all that some are germinating. The daytime temperature is more important imo. You don't need a steady mid 80s temperature 24/7, that's not how it works in nature. I get better results with ~80-85F 18 hours a day and ~60F for 6 hours a day than with ~85F 24 hours a day. There are studies that have found that fluctuating temperatures seem to be preferable.

E.g. http://www.jstor.org/pss/20051127

50F night temps in the basement won't kill your seedlings, but they'll probably grow a little more slowly than they would with say, 60-70F at night.

8-10 seeds per cell is a little extreme. Newbies tend to underestimate (as I did) how many seeds are going to germinate. If you plant 8-10 seeds you'll probably get at least 6-8 seedlings packed in a tiny cell, and might even get 10. I wouldn't go higher than 4-5. 4-5 seedlings in a cell are pretty easy to separate unless you let the roots get out of control, I've never tried 8-10 but I don't think it would be a good idea. 32-cell mini greenhouses sell for $2.50 here, so why pack so many in?

You don't need a heat mat, just temperatures preferably in the 75-85F range for at least a large portion of the day.
 
tjg911 said:
... i don't want to toss them, starting seeds is addictive but it's 8 months before i can plant them out! i'm going to transplant them and see how they do....

not 1 of the 10 long red slim cayenne seeds have germinated. both are in the same 6 pack so they have gotten the same treatment. the cayenne seeds were from peppers i have had in the freezer from last fall, could that be the reason?
Click to expand...

I like your approach, checking seed viability and doing a 'test run' of your grow area. Just don't overdo it with those early birds. I dont know if the freezer affected your cayenne seed viability, but at least you know now before your main grow time line. Another method to consider, is the 'baggie' or cup germination just for checking seed viability fairly easily.

+1 on AB's comments. I was doing okay with my germination temp range on the hot water tank.... :cool:
 
thanks, i pretty much have given up on the lrsc seeds, nothing by now probably means i'll get nothing. so i decided today to do the damp paper towel in the bag test on another batch of the lrsc seeds. i'm interested in knowing if these seeds are going to be good in late january rather than scrambling when it's time to go! i already know the fatalli seeds are good.

the fatalli seedlings have not grown or changed at all since they formed the seedling leaves. i read hot peppers can be slow to grow, tomatoes at this stage would be starting the 1st true leaves or at least the plants would have grown a bit taller. i put them in a sunny window all day and give them a little water just enough to dampen the soil, they are way to young to fertilize.

i got a box of peppers from a friend and have 8 different hot and superhots, i'm saving seeds but not sure what i'll start next winter.

as far as 10 seeds in a cell, i know someone that does this with tomatoes in fact he probably put 15 to 20 seeds in 1 cell! i have seen videos of this and it's a jungle in each cell and they get 1 1/2 to 2" tall before transplanting! it makes sense especially as he starts hundreds of different tomato varieties each year growing thousands of plants! it's easy to take apart tomato seedlings and transplant them into individual cells and leggy seedlings are no big deal as you can just plant them deeper. i'll be putting all of 1 variety of tomatoes into 1 cell and i'll use a fraction of the containers vs the way i have done it in the past. all you need to do is mark each cell to know who's in it otherwise you're doomed. :rofl:

i assume (?) peppers work the same as tomatoes - ie they come apart easily and roots are not super delicate? as long as you handle the leaves and not the stems the seedlings will transplant ok? same family as tomatoes so it seems likely to be the case. never had any troubles with tomatoes so i am thinking peppers will be the same. my concern was how to germinate but it appears they are not all that difficult to germinate.

i have 3 different pamphlets (15 or 20 page booklets) on starting tomatoes from seed and growing them. it was great when i started but no i seldom look at them. i need one on how to do peppers!

i read about putting seedlings on top of a fridge, mine is not the least bit warm. i can't place them on top of the satellite receiver cuz it's under a shelf and there's no room. the vcr and tv are also hard to place 6 packs on. at the most i'm going to look into using a 25 or 40 watt bulb under a shelf with 6 packs vs buying a heat mat when i get the garden put to bed for the season.
 
I've grown stuff for several years, but first year grower from seeds, so don't know much. But what I observed is tomatoes rocket through the early growth stage. The peppers are kind of fussy about every damn thing. They might get to the 4-leaf stage and mope along there unless you gave them the right light, heat, soil, nutes. They still grow, but just take their dear sweet time.

And you never know if it is a real problem, or if they are just chillin. Eventually they blast off, but never on a scale like maters.

Tomatoes also totally kick butt in transplanting, planting deep, watering, soil conditions and utilizing fertilizer if you put in too much. They work through any issue quicker. They will still react to all of those, but being quicker and more vigorous, usually get through gardening mistakes and especially thrive if you correct the mistake. Peppers whine and moan and poke along.

For multi cell transplant splitting, tomatoes no problem. They rock on. Peppers can also handle it, but like everything else mentioned. they react slower. This is especially true if you are doing this indoors in a cold climate on a limited light budget (like me).

If you have sufficient time to account for their transplant shock, it is not a problem. They eventually come around and within 2-4 weeks are all happy again. You can also plant peppers deep during a pot up transplant. Just not to the extreme as those uber 'maters.

All IMHO. From your posts, it sounds like you are up for the pepper growin challenge.... :cool:
 
thanks siliman.

it's 85 out right now and the fatallis are on the deck getting air and sun, something that won't happen too often especially in another week when normal day time temps here are in the lower to mid 60's.

i plan on starting my pepper seeds the last week in january. that seems ridiculously early as i don't start onions until the 1st week of feb and that used to seem early too but the past couple of years i moved from 2/22 to 2/2 for seeding onions. the extra 3 weeks gives me larger seedlings to transplant in early april. as for peppers, late january hopefully is early enough! i'm sure it is but this poky thing makes me wonder. i put out peppers on memorial day weekend here. so counting from 1/31 to 5/30 that's 119 days! i was planning on doing this like 1/23 or 1/25, is january too early or wise to have the extra time? i assume your plant out time in idaho is as late or later than mine?
 
Next thing you know, you'll be posting pix of a scraggly fatali in your south facing window in January with a frozen tundra in the background. Good stuff! It's fun to be thinking sprout times for next year already.

I'm with you on the onion start dates, similar to here. I think I'll stage out some peppers starting late January for those that take a long time to mature. Maybe spread out half my starts by a couple of weeks or a month. My main interest for production are C. annuums which I think are good to go in mid to late-Feb. (Will be checking La Nina before deciding...)
 
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