lighting Indoor lighting System Question ~ Newbie

[TastyPeps]

This is the first year I'll be growing a salsa garden (peppers, tomatos, onions) completely indoors and I'm trying to figure out the best lighting set up. I'd like space for 12 plants and was planning a 5' x 7' area with a frame to hang light fixtures from. I was thinking 4 4ft dual bulb shop lights like the below.

My questions are:

Would this be enough light?
Is there a better/cheaper alternative?
Is a 5' X 7' area big enought for 12 plants?

American Fluor Corp 2Lamp Shop Light Pps232rc Light Fixtures Fluorescent Ceiling

http://www.amazon.com/American-Pps232rc-Fixtures-Fluorescent-Ceiling/dp/B000KKNEYO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1365597286&sr=8-1&keywords=shop+light

Thanks for your help!!

 

[CBarkley]

As far as your spacial concerns go, 5x7 is a lot of space. You should only need about 12 sq feet for 12 plants, especially indoors under fluorescent lights where they won't get as large as they would outside. You should be able to fit your 12 plants into a 6x2 area. 4x3 might be better so your 4ft lights run the entire course of the grow space.

As far as lights go, you will want somewhere around 3000-5000 lumens per square foot. If those lights can provide you with that, then you should be able to get a decent harvest out of your plants! Also, don't forget to get those lights as close to the plants as you can.

Edit: Looking at that link you posted, it seems like that is just the fixture, so you will need to get bulbs as well. Just make sure to check out the Kelvin rating and lumens on the bulbs before you buy. There is a good thread stickied all about lights on this forum.

 

[PHB]

Hi,

No it won't be sufficient light for your area. And you shouldn't use neon light. Personally I use a Envirolite CFL 250W (6400K°, 26K lumens) for less than 1m² (10ft&sup2. But you can also use HPS. The main advantage of CFL is that you can (must) put it very close from the top of the plant because it's not hot and because HPS is not 100% PAR (Photosyntetic active radiation). The only drawback of CFL is that the spectrum doesn't go very deep.

You can check this one http://www.amazon.co...rolite CFL 250W

So for 35ft² you will need 2 of them at least.

A good set up (in french sorry) : http://www.growshops...CFeXHtAod5BUADg

To give you an idea with HPS data :

 

[Helltaco]

My opinion is different. Look into T5 HO or T5 VHO Fluorescent . They can supply you with all the light you need in spectrum for growing and fruiting. With much less heat than HPS.

This is through the door of my 6'X5' grow room. The light is a 16 tube T5 HO at 54 watts and about 5000 lumens per tube. I use 6400K tubes for vegetating and swap half of them to 3000K for fruiting. Only 4 tubs are lit in the picture as 16 would burn up the seedlings right now. Cooling is needed with all tubes lit.

 

[Jeff H]

My opinion is different. Look into T5 HO or T5 VHO Fluorescent . They can supply you with all the light you need in spectrum for growing and fruiting. With much less heat than HPS.

But not as efficiently or economically as HID. Lets face it, the OP will need at least 600 watts and probably upwards of 1000 or more and that is a crap ton of T5 bulbs since I think they are 54watts each. A 1000 watt HPS or MH setup will be cheaper in initial purchase price as well as monthly electric costs vs. 1000 watts of T5 lights.

OP, I have a 600watt in my 4.5'x6' room and it is not enough to light the whole room. It will light an area a little larger than 4x4 very nicely, but the intensity drops off a lot after that.

 

[Helltaco]

But not as efficiently or economically as HID. Lets face it, the OP will need at least 600 watts and probably upwards of 1000 or more and that is a crap ton of T5 bulbs since I think they are 54watts each. A 1000 watt HPS or MH setup will be cheaper in initial purchase price as well as monthly electric costs vs. 1000 watts of T5 lights.

OP, I have a 600watt in my 4.5'x6' room and it is not enough to light the whole room. It will light an area a little larger than 4x4 very nicely, but the intensity drops off a lot after that.

Consider the lumens and do the math to see that you just stuck your foot in your mouth.

 

[Jeff H]

Consider the lumens and do the math to see that you just stuck your foot in your mouth.

Not so sure about that.
600w HPS is right about 100,000 lumens and a 1000 watt bulb is over 140,000.

T5HO bulbs I've seen are 5000 lumens so you would need 20 bulbs to equal 100,000 l. BUT, that puts you at 1080 watts, which is a heck of a lot more than the 600watt HPS bulb.

The math for a MH bulb isn't as impressive, but the plants don't seem to notice a difference. 600 watt bulb is 60,000 lumens. With a 5000 l T5 bulb, you are at 12 bulbs or 648watts to get 60,000 lumens from a T5 system.

 

[Helltaco]

Now kick it up a notch with the math using T5 VHO tubes.

And consider cooling costs.

And tube life.

And you can throw in safety to boot.

 

[Jeff H]

Now kick it up a notch with the math using T5 VHO tubes.

And consider cooling costs.

And tube life.

And you can throw in safety to boot.

Sorry HT, you're going the wrong way here. VHO bulbs are less efficient than the HO ones. How about this, since you pay for electricity by the watt, lets compare lumens per watt.

T5 HO - 54 watts, 5000 l. = 92 l/watt.
T5 VHO- 94 watts, 7200 lumens = 76 l/watt
600 HPS- 600 watts, 96,000 lumens = 160 l/watt
600 MH- 600 watts, 60,000 lumens = 100 l/watt.
Just for reference, incandecent bulbs are 16 l/watt.

Now we could have a more meaningful discussion about color, but as far as initial cost and cost of use, HID wins. And NO, they don't run that hot. Plants like it a little warm anyway.

 

[millworkman]

HID vs T5HO will be debated forever. No one side will win. 1000watts of each will cost the exact same to run monthly. The T5 will output a bit more heat than the HID at that wattage but is spread over a much larger area so it seems cooler. The plus side for HIDs is penetration. Lower branches will still receive light where as with a T5HO it will not be as much. T5s are brilliant lights and grow some seriously impressive plants and are less of a hassle than HIDs since you can put them much closer to your plants. Either way is a great way to go.

If it were me I would pick up one or two cheap high bay lights off craigslist for 20-40 bucks a pop for 400-1000watters. Remote mount the ballast and put the lights up on the ceiling. BAM!

 

[Helltaco]

Thanks for the math Jeff H, good job. I disagree still on the heat issue and that adds greatly to the expense. HIDs also diminish in output quickly.

I'll save the rest 'till I need to piss again

 

[Jeff H]

[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]HIDs also diminish in output quickly.[/background]

We can agree on that, but the HID charts are posted above by PHB so you know what you are getting with HID and they have superior penetration for sure. The initial purchase price of T5 is extreme though vs. the Chinese HID packages that you can get for a reasonable price.

 

[Helltaco]

Chu gets wat chu pay for.

 

[TastyPeps]

Awesome, thanks for the responses!. What Ive gathered so far is 5' x 7' is more space than Id need for 12 plants and 4 of those fixtures would not be enough light for my needs.

If I were to make a 4' x 4' area for 12 plants would that be enough?
Also, could you provide links to the bulbs/fixtures you are referring to? I'm still kinda lost on that.

Edit: Would two or three of these do the trick in a 4' x 3' area?

http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-FLCDG125D-125-Watt-Compact-Fluorescent/dp/B001UV6P9I/ref=sr_1_1?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1365651907&sr=1-1&keywords=cfl+grow+lights

 

[CBarkley]

4 by 4 should be plenty of room for 12 plants. The square foot gardening method can be applied indoors, so check that out if you haven't already.

 

[willard3]

Nobody that designs lighting for a living agrees that any fluorescent is more efficient than HID.
Nobody that designs lamps agrees, either.

 

[Helltaco]

Who is this Nobody?

Designs what lighting for a living ?

Is he a salesman?

 

[millworkman]

Now you are just baiting an argument taco.

 

[Helltaco]

I don't lose gracefully.

 

[Jeff H]

Who is this Nobody?

Designs what lighting for a living ?

Is he a salesman?

You aren't listening are you.

I know you want to defend your decision to buy a really expensive $300 light fixture, and there is nothing wrong with that at all, but florescents are not more efficient.

We do seem to be getting distracted from the OP in our little debate.

Awesome, thanks for the responses!. What Ive gathered so far is 5' x 7' is more space than Id need for 12 plants and 4 of those fixtures would not be enough light for my needs.

If I were to make a 4' x 4' area for 12 plants would that be enough?
Also, could you provide links to the bulbs/fixtures you are referring to? I'm still kinda lost on that.

Edit: Would two or three of these do the trick in a 4' x 3' area?

http://www.amazon.co...cfl grow lights

In your 4x4' area, I would use 4 of those for a total of 500 watts.

Something like this would put out more light and would be cheaper, but at 600 watts, will cost a little more to run, but you could stretch your grow area to 5x5'. .

http://www.ebay.com/...?hlp=false&var=