Is Culling Really Necessary?

[KingLeerUK]

As the topic asks, is culling really necessary? My reason for asking is two-fold.
 
One, I started multiple seeds (6-8) in each starter cell as a hedge against old seed stock with the thought that this would improve my germination rates (it sort of worked).  The youngest of my seed stock was at least 3+ years old, with some seeds being 5+ years old.  For those seeds that did start, I tended to have 2-4 seedlings come up with the exception of some of the Aji varieties from Lindberg which I only got 1 or 2 seedlings out of an 8 seed planting.  I sort of waited too long to do the water separation that I've done in the past to gently tease apart seedling roots without destroying them.  This year I'm very limited on space and am going to be restricted to growing in fabric pots.
 
Two, thinking beyond the domestic garden scenario, in the wild when pepper seeds are distributed there is no guarantee that the seeds will be disseminated in any optimal fashion.  A few use cases come to mind:

• an entire pod drops to the ground and all of the seeds within it are "sown" at the same location
• a bird or other animal consumes a pod (spicy squirrel farts for sure) and some portion of the seeds are deposited in various locations, again no guarantee that it's just a single seed
• individual seeds are dispersed across an area leading to our gardener ideal of single-seed sowing and germination

Now, obviously having a single plant in a container or in ground will lead to less competition when compared to a scenario where sibling plants are all crowded together, but is there really a large disparity in production between a single plant given no competition, versus a few plants together and the sum of their production output?
 
Discuss!

 

[karoo]

Nope , not always necessary.
I germinate in small square pots and often place 3-4 seeds per pot.
With good germination I will get 2-4 plants per small pot . If I want more of a certain plant I will transplant with a simple teaspoon into a new container.
 
I often leave 2- 3 plants per container , maybe to cull much later or keep growing as twins.
Some of my best producers have been twins.

 

[solid7]

I am working on braiding triples this season.  I have  a year long growing season, and I want to try growing "trees".  This, for me, seems the fastest way to get there.

 

[Dalia]

Not sure if you've ever seen any of the Hippy Seed Company's youtube videos, but it seems like I've noticed multiple times that they have more than one plant in the containers they bring into the vids during pod tests to show what the plant that they're sampling the pods from looks like . 

 

[Dalia]

I am working on braiding triples this season.  I have  a year long growing season, and I want to try growing "trees".  This, for me, seems the fastest way to get there.

 
^ That sounds super cool ! 

 

[KingLeerUK]

I am working on braiding triples this season.  I have  a year long growing season, and I want to try growing "trees".  This, for me, seems the fastest way to get there.

 
This brings up an interesting advantage that having multiple plants in close proximity could yield:  by binding the stems together, or in your case braiding, all of the plants could derive some protection against stems breaking due to high winds.  Hmm...

 

[Ghaleon]

Would you just triple the water?

 

[KingLeerUK]

Would you just triple the water?

I think you would just water the plants as they appear to need it using the same rules that would apply for a single plant: water when the soil appears dry and the plant(s) look like they need it, don't keep their feet wet.

 

[solid7]

I think you would just water the plants as they appear to need it using the same rules that would apply for a single plant: water when the soil appears dry and the plant(s) look like they need it, don't keep their feet wet.

 
Nothing wrong with the roots staying moist, as long as you have a well built potting mix, that follows the cardinal rules. (structure, drainage, aeration, moisture retention, nutrient retention)  I don't subscribe to the theory of letting them go until they wilt, unless it's advice being given to an overwatering newbie.
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I keep my plants very well mulched, and the roots are constantly moist. (unless I'm doing hydro, then I do frequent shallow waterings)  I have a couple beds that literally never need any water help from me.  Granted, it rains more than average here.  But that just lends credence to the idea that we don't need to let plants dry out.
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But quite simply, no.  It doesn't require 3 times as much water.  In most cases, if you have your mix right, you lose more to evaporation than uptake, until some given point in that plant's lifecycle. 

 

[solid7]

Follow up to a previous reply...
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Later on, they sorta just become 1 plant...

 

[Chili]

I really like what you have going on there solid. You've inspired me to try this next season. Not trying to hijack this thread but... can you elaborate on your technique? Does the braid hold by itself?Do the plants require any direction training or do they just naturally point away from each other?

 

[solid7]

I start them when they're really young and bendy.  You may need to put a twist tie loosely around them, at some point.  But right there, they just hold on their own.  It helps that the leaves get sorta tangled, and prevent the stems from passing back through.
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Also, I don't think that you're hijacking this thread, because I posted it to show that multiples is perfectly fine. Even good, in certain cases.
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Also, I grow these in my porch when they're young, and they get filtered light every day.  Therefore, they want to grow a little leggy.  I would encourage you to maybe try this now, instead of next season.  In this case, the legginess helps.  Aji Amarillo (as in this pic) is a good candidate, because they really get tall fast.  They make a nice big jump, right from the start.
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If you do indoors now, you'll be able to either turn it into Bonchi, or harden it off outside next season.  Use sub-optimal growing to your advantage...

 

[Chili]

Thanks for the knowledge. I'll start them tomorrow.

 

[Chili]

Is it best to start them all in the same solo cup or transfer them?

 

[solid7]

Is it best to start them all in the same solo cup or transfer them?

 
I plant 4 seeds in each hole - they are literally all touching.  Figure out which 3 grow at closest to the same rate, pluck the 4th.  Also, in the case that one doesn't germinate, it can also work out.
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To be honest, I almost always grow multiples.  Even if you only want one, it lets you figure out which is the strongest of the bunch.  Besides...  whatcha gonna do with all those seeds, anyway?  This is one more facet of culling.  I know very few people who are able or willing to plant out all of their seed stock while it's still viable.  Again, use the situation to your advantage. 
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The braiding thing is just fun.

 

[Mr. West]

I am working on braiding triples this season.  I have  a year long growing season, and I want to try growing "trees".  This, for me, seems the fastest way to get there.

I'm curious how this mini project is progressing.
They getting along?

 

[solid7]

I'm curious how this mini project is progressing.
They getting along?

 
I haven't up potted them yet.  But yes, they are getting along nicely.
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Braiding plants is NOT easy.  It requires finesse skills, and lots of leaf trimming.  Some people don't like to take leaves off. (understandable)  Also, I have really strong, ape hands.  I snapped off several plants in my attempts.  This is why I stated somewhere, that it's really good to take advantage of low light conditions at the first, and get them growing leggy, if you want to braid.  Lots of Nitrogen, cool temps, and low light will give you something that is spindly enough to work with.  At least, that's what I've found.
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No pic at the moment, but I only braid about the first 3-4", and after that, they start hardening off to the point that I risk breakage.  It's OK, I want a nice fat stump at the bottom.
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Thanks for asking.  Will update a pic later.

 

[solid7]

Brazilian starfish would be a REALLY good choice for braided multiples.  It has excellent growth characteristics for such a thing...

 

[Mr. West]

Cool beans. I was just perusing other braiding forums.
Sounds like in some cases there's a heavy feeder and the others get dwarfed, or the 2 choke the 1.
Some of them have an interesting visual effect, once they become woody.
But i think their tendency is still to grow apart.
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/59064-braided-plants/?fromsearch=1
This example looks like the plants began to separate once the binders were removed.
So, i think plants done like this could never fully graft together their vascular systems, because the braiding is done when the starts are new, but they still develop independent xylem layers with no integration of the cambium.
Maybe if you acted during the plants' first season, at the stage of life when stems harden, you could
perform surgery.
But with them being so close together already, that seems more difficult than plain grafting.
Particularly with your simian hands.

 

[solid7]

Yes, you would want to abrade the plants where the stems touch, if you really wanted them to truly join.  And, of course, you'd have to be careful not to fully break the outside layer.
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I don't think mine are going to ever separate.  However, I would have loved to have braided just a bit more on this one.  However, I went to NY for over a week, and that put me out of the game.
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