or you could just build something, if it was me I'd want something I could place/remove as 1 piece & better yet if I could keep the rock in until ya dumped it into a barrel for storage til next season.
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January 2009 Garden Project
- Thread starter AlabamaJack
- Start date
The pictures are great.
Please don't separate the gravel from the soil. The roots will enjoy growing in it. Just use shallow (1 inch deep) dividers to keep it looking neat.
Gravel channels will be supportive for walking and to pour water through, also provide airflow at the root-zone. But the soil will seep into them, lowering the level of the plants and planted area relative to the paths. The middle sections of soil will slowly (or quickly after heavy rains) become lower than the gravel paths. That's okay just add more soil on the planted areas. Try not to use a muddy soil.
Roots grow where they want to; you can't control it. Keeping them in buckets will cause tight tangled surface roots.
Roots want air too. They will colonize near the surface, go deep, and every level in-between . Loose compost on top will still preserve surface moisture and be a good place for the near-surface roots to thrive. Unhealthy roots are caused by tight anaerobic conditions, not because they are near the surface. If you're concerned about the upper roots drying out when it's hot, and getting moldy when it's wet, cover with a non-toxic mulch like large pine bark, a thin layer of gravel, grass clippings, or brick chips (I don't like that orange, dyed, or "cypress" mulch).
It would probably be a good idea to put a layer of mulch on the gravel paths too for moisture retention.
Please don't separate the gravel from the soil. The roots will enjoy growing in it. Just use shallow (1 inch deep) dividers to keep it looking neat.
Gravel channels will be supportive for walking and to pour water through, also provide airflow at the root-zone. But the soil will seep into them, lowering the level of the plants and planted area relative to the paths. The middle sections of soil will slowly (or quickly after heavy rains) become lower than the gravel paths. That's okay just add more soil on the planted areas. Try not to use a muddy soil.
Roots grow where they want to; you can't control it. Keeping them in buckets will cause tight tangled surface roots.
Roots want air too. They will colonize near the surface, go deep, and every level in-between . Loose compost on top will still preserve surface moisture and be a good place for the near-surface roots to thrive. Unhealthy roots are caused by tight anaerobic conditions, not because they are near the surface. If you're concerned about the upper roots drying out when it's hot, and getting moldy when it's wet, cover with a non-toxic mulch like large pine bark, a thin layer of gravel, grass clippings, or brick chips (I don't like that orange, dyed, or "cypress" mulch).
It would probably be a good idea to put a layer of mulch on the gravel paths too for moisture retention.
AlabamaJack
eXtreme
thanks for the ideas guys...brainstorming is great for ideas before starting a project...
I want 6-8" edging. I figure after I use a tiller on the whole area, the soil will be soft enough for me to easily push the edging down about 4-5", then dig out between the edging and put that soil I have taken out of the trenches onto the plant beds. This will make the raised beds about 4" higher than the gravel level of the channels. This will essentially be making raised beds...
removing the gravel: I don't plan on removing the gravel after the grow season...I want to make these channels "permanent". I have a dry bed I made on the east side of my house (I live in a 5' property line neighborhood). I dug a trench deep enough to put a 6" french drain, layed down the weed cloth over the whole area, put the drain pipe in and then covered with rock...the rock has not punched through the weed cloth and very few weeds have grown there...it has been there for about 6 years...
I understand what you are saying ABM, but I want the weed cloth and gravel to be able to: support my weight without sinking too much into the soil, keep the soil and gravel from mixing, keep the plants roots out of the gravel, provide a method of watering "underground"...
I am still in the planning stage and trying to find the most cost effective solution for this project. Gravel is fairly cheap...I need 3 yds. What I am having trouble finding is the edging material in the size I want/need. I am going to need about 300 linear feet of edging material what ever I choose....
I want 6-8" edging. I figure after I use a tiller on the whole area, the soil will be soft enough for me to easily push the edging down about 4-5", then dig out between the edging and put that soil I have taken out of the trenches onto the plant beds. This will make the raised beds about 4" higher than the gravel level of the channels. This will essentially be making raised beds...
removing the gravel: I don't plan on removing the gravel after the grow season...I want to make these channels "permanent". I have a dry bed I made on the east side of my house (I live in a 5' property line neighborhood). I dug a trench deep enough to put a 6" french drain, layed down the weed cloth over the whole area, put the drain pipe in and then covered with rock...the rock has not punched through the weed cloth and very few weeds have grown there...it has been there for about 6 years...
I understand what you are saying ABM, but I want the weed cloth and gravel to be able to: support my weight without sinking too much into the soil, keep the soil and gravel from mixing, keep the plants roots out of the gravel, provide a method of watering "underground"...
I am still in the planning stage and trying to find the most cost effective solution for this project. Gravel is fairly cheap...I need 3 yds. What I am having trouble finding is the edging material in the size I want/need. I am going to need about 300 linear feet of edging material what ever I choose....
AJ - I didnt know you wanted it permanent, I assumed it'd be removable so you can till the whole garden. as is, would there be a build up of nutrients under the rock ? that would be better if you tilled the whole garden up once a season ?
as for destroying the weed mat I was talking about if you removed the rock by shovel, I know rock once placed wont destroy the weed mat.
the only questions I have now is
are you gonna water them from the top since young plants wont have a developed root system yet.
will that distance be enough to sustain the plants since not every part of the roots will get wet. to me it seems kinda far from the main root system, or am I wrong to think this ?
I find this an interesting method of watering & I'm just curious
as for destroying the weed mat I was talking about if you removed the rock by shovel, I know rock once placed wont destroy the weed mat.
the only questions I have now is
are you gonna water them from the top since young plants wont have a developed root system yet.
will that distance be enough to sustain the plants since not every part of the roots will get wet. to me it seems kinda far from the main root system, or am I wrong to think this ?
I find this an interesting method of watering & I'm just curious
Chili,
When we raised tobacco, tomatoes, beans, cucumbers, carrots, clover, corn, etc., the plants were always watered from the top - via rainfall. Plants' roots grow toward moisture and if one sets up a system where they get most of the water from close to the top of the soil, they will not develop deep roots. That's why rainfall, especially in the spring when it rains enough to moisten the ground several inches deep is so valuable. When a dry spell happens, the roots are digging down to where the moisture is and that area hardly ever dries out, except in an extended drought.
Mike
When we raised tobacco, tomatoes, beans, cucumbers, carrots, clover, corn, etc., the plants were always watered from the top - via rainfall. Plants' roots grow toward moisture and if one sets up a system where they get most of the water from close to the top of the soil, they will not develop deep roots. That's why rainfall, especially in the spring when it rains enough to moisten the ground several inches deep is so valuable. When a dry spell happens, the roots are digging down to where the moisture is and that area hardly ever dries out, except in an extended drought.
Mike
cool- I like your idea.AlabamaJack said:
Mike,
Just a thought- How about digging/drilling some 3-4 inch diameter holes about 16 inches deep filled with gravel around the plant so water can immediately go down deep when watering, or when it rains a little? To keep these gravel conduits from getting clogged with dirt, make tubes out of weed cloth.
These brainstorms are great, but the thunder and lightning inside my head concerns me.
AlabamaJack
eXtreme
chilehunter said:
the plan right now is to have enough room between the channels to till the soil with a small tiller...I don't have a tiller and will be renting one...the one I am looking at renting from Home Depot has about a 21-24" width...
chilehunter said:
I will probably give them some top water to begin with then just use the channels once they get established...
wordwiz said:
Exactly why I am putting this system in...plus the fact that I don't like splashing water/soil up on the bottom leaves of the plants while watering...
ABurningMouth said:
I had thought of the conduit idea too, but with so many plants it would be a pain filling each piece of conduit up...I will definitely use the conduit idea when (if ever) I plant a new tree...feed the conduit right into the middle of the root mass...
This is really a great idea and sure will be alot easier as the years go by also. As I have seen you do AJ tweek here and there and the next thing is its picking time. I know I still looking at my garden spot trying to decide which way I want to go. I right now have a limited space but looking at some other places as soon asd I figure out the best way to go. Only problem I have is CLAY CLAY CLAY and it takes alot to break it up to where its not so compact. I been thinking about going to this tree removal service to see how much a good load of wood chips would cost me and till that in with some sand. The problem I have with most sand out here is those sandburrs they are everywhere and a real pain in the fingers.
I know you will be looking at it as the season progresses. Oh when you look at getting that tiller try to get the rer tine for the front ones will jar the daylights out of ya. And also you can get some real good depth with them. I have experience with the front one layed me up for about a week jumping up and down.
I know you will be looking at it as the season progresses. Oh when you look at getting that tiller try to get the rer tine for the front ones will jar the daylights out of ya. And also you can get some real good depth with them. I have experience with the front one layed me up for about a week jumping up and down.
okie joe,
I had zero luck mixing sand in with the clay. Or with top soil either. What I end up with is separate layers after a few rains and a winter of freeze/thaw cycles.
Not that this has proven to be bad - quite the opposite. The soil seems to drain extremely well in the spring when we get lots of rain, as well as after a heavy summer deluge. My garden looks like a rice paddy with an inch or so of water but two days later I can walk on it and not have muddy shoes.
Then when the summer dry conditions set in, the soil under the clay stays moist.
Mike
I had zero luck mixing sand in with the clay. Or with top soil either. What I end up with is separate layers after a few rains and a winter of freeze/thaw cycles.
Not that this has proven to be bad - quite the opposite. The soil seems to drain extremely well in the spring when we get lots of rain, as well as after a heavy summer deluge. My garden looks like a rice paddy with an inch or so of water but two days later I can walk on it and not have muddy shoes.
Then when the summer dry conditions set in, the soil under the clay stays moist.
Mike
I didn't mean actual conduit, but that sounds alright too, I guess.
I just called the cloth-wrapped gravel tubes that.
I love this forum; a person can get some great tips.
I just called the cloth-wrapped gravel tubes that.
I love this forum; a person can get some great tips.
AlabamaJack
eXtreme
I really didn't meazn conduit, I really meant 4" PVC pipe for the tree...I have used 2" on tomato plants before I made my "cement farm"
wordwiz said:
I know this, but was just thinking that bottom watering was when you placed the containers (like seedlings) directly in water til' the soil is soaked.
with the watering troughs being a certain distance away from the main root system, I was just wondering if they'll be able to get all the water they need ?
like with trees their root systems only go out as far as their branches do, do chile plants kinda work in the same way ?
if so would only the end tips of the roots be getting wet/soak up the water & would this be enough to sustain the plants ?
vs if you were able to place water right underneath them or pipe going through the root system to bottom for watering.
I like the idea of a pathway for walking.
since you brought up the point about bottom soil stays moist vs top soil, depending on what type of gravel/rock AJ uses wouldnt this also be a concern for drying out that bottom soil ?
I mean you are making it so its more porous than the surrounding soil.
ABurningMouth said:
I'd forego the rock & just use pvc pipe & drill holes in the pipe bottom & use a funnel to pour into the pipe. but AJ's trough idea seems easier & faster.
ABurningMouth said:
you'll be fine as long as you dont use a key to clean your ears out 
I will make the assumption AJ that you wont have a pressurised watering system.
If you did my suggestion would be to lay the soaker hose in the gravel bed, and pump the water into it, thus no requirement to carry around a watering can, or drag a hose up and down the rows.
The other suggestion that I would make, and has been used by stillmanz, is the wet pot system, they work on no pressure, and deliver water as needed to the plant.
Still, it looks a great plan, and I'm sure it will produce excellent plants.
Please post pics as you progress on the the development of your yard!
RS
If you did my suggestion would be to lay the soaker hose in the gravel bed, and pump the water into it, thus no requirement to carry around a watering can, or drag a hose up and down the rows.
The other suggestion that I would make, and has been used by stillmanz, is the wet pot system, they work on no pressure, and deliver water as needed to the plant.
Still, it looks a great plan, and I'm sure it will produce excellent plants.
Please post pics as you progress on the the development of your yard!
RS
AlabamaJack
eXtreme
ring sting said:
I just looked at the wetpot systems for inground and they are high as a cats back....165 for a 10 pot system is way too much for me to spend...that would meanover $600 for this one end of the bed and I will still have another 200+ plants...I love the idea and if I were on a smaller scale, it seems to be worth it...
POTAWIE said:
If you get them Potawie, please let me know how they work...
Since I'm a relative newbie when it comes to growing peppers I don't have anything pertinent to add. I just wanted to thank you guys for all the great ideas you're tossing out there and discussing. Great way to learn.
AJ, how ever you decide to do this I'm extremely confident you'll be successful. I cannot wait to see the pictures of the growing plants and the harvested produce. You're a pepper growing machine!
AJ, how ever you decide to do this I'm extremely confident you'll be successful. I cannot wait to see the pictures of the growing plants and the harvested produce. You're a pepper growing machine!
AlabamaJack
eXtreme
Thanks Patrick...I'm just ramping up for retirement (this coming summer)...wife has told me the budget is going to shrink massively when I retire...
and again I will say...I've learned 90% of what I know growing peppers from here
and again I will say...I've learned 90% of what I know growing peppers from here