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Jellies and acidity

Just a quick one that I couldn't find an answer too.  After doing my first batch of jelly, I am totally making a bunch now.  The first one was a straight smoked bhut and red capsicum one.  I wanted to do a lime juice and zest with some orange manzanos and goat peppers, but wasn't sure if the acidity is a factor that would impact on jelly set? 
 
Cheers, B
 
This is helpful, but it means sugar to juice ratio is dependent on acidity.. Still looking for an equation... but a work around may be reducing the amount of pectin used?
 

The Role Of Acid In Jelly Formation

Although acid is not essential for jelly formation its presence in fruit jellies is very important. Singh has reported that "between certain limits the greater the acidity of the juice the lower the amount of sugar required." He adds that it has long been known that juices of high acidity yield firmer jellies than juices deficient in acid but with as high a pectin content.
Spencer has published data showing the increase of rigidity of jellies with increase of acid when the pectin and sugar concentrations are constant. Spencer explains the action of acid in this way. The strength of a jell network depends upon the continuity and the rigidity of the structure. "Continuity of structure, by hypothesis, depends upon the number and proximity of pectin particles at the time of precipitation," which in turn is determined by the degree of dispersion and concentration of the pectin. "Differences in rigidity are due to the amount of water retained by the pectin at the equilibrium established during precipitation." Hydrogen (or hydroxyl) ions lessen the stability of the pectin sol by decreasing the hydration capacity of the pectin. Hence in an acid medium less sugar is required to bring about precipitation. Nearly neutral fruit juices will not form jelly with sugar because the sugar is not soluble enough to allow precipitation of the more stabile pectin. Hence with a definite concentration of pectin the rigidity of the jelly is determined by the sugar and acid concentrations.
Hydrogen-ion concentration and jelly. Tarr has determined the minimum amounts of several acids required to produce a jelly and also the amount of the acids to produce an optimum jelly by the hot evaporation method with pectin, sugar, acid, and water. Optimum jelly is defined as the jelly which in his judgment has the best texture. For jelly formation, when other conditions were standardized, the minimum amounts of the acids were as follows: 8.5 cc. of 0.1 N sulfuric acid; 27.5 cc. of 0.1 N phosphoric acid; 22.7 cc. of 0.1 N tartaric acid; 52.9 cc. of 0.1 N citric acid; and 583.3 cc. of 0.1 N acetic acid. The total acidity of the minimum amounts required for forming a jelly varied, but the acids were all at the same pH, 3.40. For optimum jelly the acids were all at pH 3.1.
 
Bumper that's some great starting info.  I've not done a lot of jellies, so I don't have any first hand info.  My suggestion would be to google the snot out of "jelly recipes with lime juice, lemon juice,etc, etc" and just see what recipes are out there that contain lime or lemon juice.  That should give you some general guidelines for jelly recipes containing citrus juices.  The other resource to look at is the instructions that come with the pectin.  Most over here have 3-4 pages worth of recipes, there should be something that would be a starting point.  If the recipe contains a fruit and a citrus juice, what other fruit and what other citrus juice would you think would work good with the chillis you want to use?  The ingredients are fairly interchangeable. 
 
Worst case scenario is that it doesn't set up.  You could use it as a syrup or re-batch it using more pectin.
 
Hopefully others who have done more with jellies will chime in. 
 
Have Fun and Good Luck!
 
SL 
 
salsalady said:
Bumper that's some great starting info.  I've not done a lot of jellies, so I don't have any first hand info.  My suggestion would be to google the snot out of "jelly recipes with lime juice, lemon juice,etc, etc" and just see what recipes are out there that contain lime or lemon juice.  That should give you some general guidelines for jelly recipes containing citrus juices.  The other resource to look at is the instructions that come with the pectin.  Most over here have 3-4 pages worth of recipes, there should be something that would be a starting point.  If the recipe contains a fruit and a citrus juice, what other fruit and what other citrus juice would you think would work good with the chillis you want to use?  The ingredients are fairly interchangeable. 
 
Worst case scenario is that it doesn't set up.  You could use it as a syrup or re-batch it using more pectin.
 
Hopefully others who have done more with jellies will chime in. 
 
Have Fun and Good Luck!
 
SL 
 
tctenten said:
http://thehotpepper.com/topic/44221-strawberry-surprise-jam/

I follow this recipe, with a lot less peppers and it sets fine. The ratio of limes used may help you.
Thank you both!  I'll be making it tomorrow so will post the recipe and results.  
 
another trick might be to substitute some apple juice which has a lot of natural pectin for some of the water in the recipe. 
 
Looking forward to seeing the results!
 
So the recipe I settled on was a hybrid of Nigella's Chilli Jelly:
 
150g orange rocoto manzano
150g bahamian goat peppers
2 cups lime juice
1kg sugar
zest from 6 limes
1/2 cup apple cider vinegar
3/4 pack pectin
 
Basically same ratio of solids to liquids, same ratio of low pH subbing limes for vinegar.  A little less pectin to account for the lime juice
 
I'll be cooking this up after some yard work, pics to come.
 
no sugar???
 
Nigel's recipe had strawberries and sugar.  Maybe it's a typo~  :confused:   ?
 
Oh! 2 recipes, from Nigel and Novella.....THAT is a coincidence. Looks good, looking forward to hearing how it turns out.
 
salsalady said:
Oh! 2 recipes, from Nigel and Novella.....THAT is a coincidence. Looks good, looking forward to hearing how it turns out.
 
Turned out better than I could have hoped for.  The set is great.  The lime comes through first very closely followed by the goat pepper and then the rocoto flavour rounds it out, with the lime zest kicking the lime back in when you bite it.  Made just on a kilo.
 
I think it will be awesome with Mexican dishes, spread over fresh cooked soft tortillas before you stack them..  mmm... 
 
 
Or toast...  :rolleyes:
 

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Looks great bumper.
 
I do a modified version of Nigella's recipe also.
 
Here is a pic of my batch from the weekend.....I did a 1/2 batch as I made this one stupidly hot
 

 
I think the acidity does play a big role in how it turns out. I've noticed with my own batches, the recipes without vinegar don't setup as well or as quickly than the ones with vinegar. Just an observation, sure other factors affect it too.
 
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