Lactobacillus

[Fatalalanus]

I'll be doing my first fermented sauces. since I'm a homebrewing, I already have glass jugs, stoppers and airlocks, and everything I need.

Also, since we are looking for lactobacillus fermentation, I find more.. logic... to pay few bucks for a White Lab 100ml vial of pure Lactobacillus culture instead of paying even more few bucks to get it from yogourt.

Anyways, my question is: How much lacto is needed for a ''x'' volume of fermentation? I will be fermenting in 1gal jugs, and I was thinking I could inoculate 4 or 5 jugs with a vial. What do you think?

 

[RocketMan]

Hi, also being a homebrewer I would tend to think that there would be a greater concentration of Lacto in the White labs vial that there would be in a container of Yogurt. When I use the whey from Yogurt I usually add 1/2 cup to a gallon jar. If you knew the concentration of each you could calculate it. Not knowing though I think what I would do is to make a starter for the Lacto, just like preping to pitch to a brew, and give them a good 24 hours to get going. You could then add a good cup of starter, 1000ml beaker will give you about 4.23 cups of starter, to the jar. If your starting them all at the same time then you have an easier measure then trying to measure it out of the vial and if your only doing 1 then refrigerate the rest till ready for the next batch.

JMHO there but it never even dawned on me to try the White Labs lacto, which makes perfect sense, so I'll deffently be following. don't forget to post pics and what process your doing. We love to follow each other and no pics, didn't happen is the unofficial rule in these parts

Cheers,
RM

 

[Fatalalanus]

Hi, also being a homebrewer I would tend to think that there would be a greater concentration of Lacto in the White labs vial that there would be in a container of Yogurt. When I use the whey from Yogurt I usually add 1/2 cup to a gallon jar. If you knew the concentration of each you could calculate it. Not knowing though I think what I would do is to make a starter for the Lacto, just like preping to pitch to a brew, and give them a good 24 hours to get going. You could then add a good cup of starter, 1000ml beaker will give you about 4.23 cups of starter, to the jar. If your starting them all at the same time then you have an easier measure then trying to measure it out of the vial and if your only doing 1 then refrigerate the rest till ready for the next batch.

JMHO there but it never even dawned on me to try the White Labs lacto, which makes perfect sense, so I'll deffently be following. don't forget to post pics and what process your doing. We love to follow each other and no pics, didn't happen is the unofficial rule in these parts

Cheers,
RM

I was wondering about a starter. Would lactobacillus reproduce as fast as saccharomyces? I guess so... So what I used.. 1.040 malt extract wort?

I don't really get what you mean by ''You could then add a good cup of starter, 1000ml beaker will give you about 4.23 cups of starter, to the jar.''

Don't know if it's my ignorance or my bad english comprehension...

Thanks!

 

[RocketMan]

Votre première langue est-elle française? My French is pretty rough though

I wouldn't use a Malt Extract wort, I think making a vegetable juice from what ever you have around the fridge, I wouldn't use ready made juice as it most likely has chemicals in it to prevent bacteria getting in, and clean pure water into a 1000ml beaker. That way the lacto are starting out with the same kinds of sugars they're going to get in the jar.

Sorry, wasn;t thinking in metric. I meant you could then add 200 to 250 ml of the starter to each fermentation jar when your ready to start them.

 

[Fatalalanus]

Votre première langue est-elle française? My French is pretty rough though

I wouldn't use a Malt Extract wort, I think making a vegetable juice from what ever you have around the fridge, I wouldn't use ready made juice as it most likely has chemicals in it to prevent bacteria getting in, and clean pure water into a 1000ml beaker. That way the lacto are starting out with the same kinds of sugars they're going to get in the jar.

Sorry, wasn;t thinking in metric. I meant you could then add 200 to 250 ml of the starter to each fermentation jar when your ready to start them.

Oui, je suis francophone.

Ok, I get it now.
Vegetable juice seems a good idea, but i'm wondering about reproduction time of these bacterias... Not sure what gravity to use neither. Maybe juste pitching 1/4 vials directly would work. They will reproduce anyway, and since i'm gonna use clean satinized jugs with airlocks, even if fermentation take few days to start (due to reproduction lag time), it wouldn't be a probleme in a ''clean'' environnement and a ''salted top''. White lab doesn't say how much cells are in a vial, but for saccharomyces, it's normally 75 to 150, according to the cells size of each variety. I'm pretty sure bacteria is way smaller than yeast, so I wouldn't be surprise if there 200,300 billions cells in a vial. I don't know if there are numbers available for a lactofermentation...

anyway, thanks for the input. I will give it a try and will share it with you.

 

[RocketMan]

Ah, très bon.

Ayez l'amusement avec lui et je te souhaite un bon voyage sur la route à la fermentation.

à tout à l'heure

have to write in Word to get the French letters and yes i did have to look up a few words

Told you my French is rough. Lived in France from 1963 to 1966 and was speaking French really good when I cam back but lack of use and it goes away pretty fast.

 

[Fatalalanus]

Ah, très bon.

Ayez l'amusement avec lui et je te souhaite un bon voyage sur la route à la fermentation.

à tout à l'heure

have to write in Word to get the French letters and yes i did have to look up a few words

Told you my French is rough. Lived in France from 1963 to 1966 and was speaking French really good when I cam back but lack of use and it goes away pretty fast.

Not so bad
You must see a few Quebecois in Florida in winter, no?

 

[RocketMan]

Yes, down around the attractions mostly.

 

[sudostahp]

Told you my French is rough. Lived in France from 1963 to 1966 and was speaking French really good when I cam back but lack of use and it goes away pretty fast.

I hear you mate. I've spent a total of 7 years taking french between high school and college, and it's still a struggle following conversations even half a decade later. I spent about a month in France, and fortunately I was able to converse with Parisians, but Quebecois and the sud de la France is a whole 'nother animal. Especially the Cajun French from around these parts.

 

[RocketMan]

We lived in Nancy so the Parisan French which is more glatal gave me problems. I was stationed in Grrmany in the late 80s early 90s and our sister unit was a French Artillery Unit. I was surprised at how much I could catch the jist of a conversation without really knowing a lot of the words. My daughter has taken French through high school and had no problems understanding Creole when she went in a mission trip to Hati. In fact they were really glad to have her along as a translator.

Now, lets see some pics of that sauce!

 

[Fatalalanus]

News on Lactobacillus, I ordered a vial of Lactobacillus Delbrueckii from White Lab.... to ferment a beer

Would you think I can harvest the lacto cake after the fermentation and keep it alive in some way for a few months, so I can reuse it to ferment my peppers at the end of summer?

Edit: Oh by the way, White Lab told me I can do a regular starter to multiply the bacteria, but it takes longer (about a week), and have to be anaerobic, in opposition to yeast starter that have to be aerobic.

 

[Fatalalanus]

Another update.

I did a starter for the lacto, a 1030 pilsner wort and I had a great cell multiplication in a few days. This weekend I'll pitch it in a Berliner Weisse wort, and in a few weeks, after fermentation, I'll save some lacto from the cake to ferment a gallon of Jalapeno. I'll give you news about it.

 

[RocketMan]

Good stuff going on there. I know that wheebz has used lacto in Beers, if you have any questions post them in the Ask Wheebz thread in the Homebrewing section. He can probably give you some info on collecting and storing that cake till your ready for it.