maxcaps 2014 grow: avoiding the freeze!

Jeff H · Mar 18, 2014

maximumcapsicum said:
Fantastic stuff. I am noticing a trend with the "yellows"... they pair well cheeses and lighter meats. Of course the peach/white/orange is a little more floral than Jamison's yellow 7, which is smooth and smokey. Reds are tangier, go excellent with tomatoes and beef. This is all powders here. Learning I hope.

It is pretty interesting that you have found out the same thing that a lot of us figured out. Yellows are for the lighter meals. To me, that means seafood. I only use yellow powder on seafood. Pizza on the other hand, I could go either way. I have a decent supply of red hab flakes. Those go darn good on pizza, but yellow would too.

Looks like you made kale chips just like my wife did. I didn't prefer the flavor, but maybe that was the store bought kale.

PaulG · Mar 18, 2014

Kale is a great crop. I grow the Red Russian, too, and love the flavor.
I usually plant in Fall and let it grow all winter here - even hard freezes
and snow don't seem to affect it too much. Mache is another good
winter green. Some folk call it Winter Lettuce, but I'm going to try a
summer crop as well this year, and of the Kale as well.

Devv · Mar 18, 2014

Sad to say I've never had Kale, but it seems I need to grow some this fall. After all Asparagus in the yard now after trying it this winter...

maximumcapsicum · Mar 21, 2014

Jeff H said:
It is pretty interesting that you have found out the same thing that a lot of us figured out. Yellows are for the lighter meals. To me, that means seafood. I only use yellow powder on seafood. Pizza on the other hand, I could go either way. I have a decent supply of red hab flakes. Those go darn good on pizza, but yellow would too.

Looks like you made kale chips just like my wife did. I didn't prefer the flavor, but maybe that was the store bought kale.

Indeed! I had noticed some discussion but have arrived at most my conclusions so far just throughout experiment. Will continue testing, trying, pairing powders with foods. Can't wait to start using fresh pods too.

Hey man, every person doesn't have to like every veggie! I am no fan of cabbage or green beans no matter how they are prepped. Think it comes form being forced to eat certain foods as a kid.

PaulG said:
Kale is a great crop. I grow the Red Russian, too, and love the flavor.
I usually plant in Fall and let it grow all winter here - even hard freezes
and snow don't seem to affect it too much. Mache is another good
winter green. Some folk call it Winter Lettuce, but I'm going to try a
summer crop as well this year, and of the Kale as well.

Kale is wonderful. Probably my second favorite crop... next to peppers that is. Maybe more than tomatoes. Tomatoes sure are tasty though.

Devv said:
Sad to say I've never had Kale, but it seems I need to grow some this fall. After all Asparagus in the yard now after trying it this winter...

Well I think you know what you have to do then Scott...

Not too much to report. Out of town right now, fretting about my shelves full of very thirsty pepper seedlings itching to get in the dirt. Before I left I did have time to do a little work on the beds.

Completely turned the soil over in one of the beds. Pulled out all the weeds and grass, pushed all the dirt on the surface to the bottom and pulled the bottom dirt up. Nice an aerated. A good workout too... feels really good to do some digging. Next I added a wheelbarrow full of compost from the farm's city pile. They collect produce scraps from all over the city and rot them in a big compost mountain in another abandoned lot. Good stuff. They added a little too much topsoil to it I think, but they were using it to fill new beds.

Going to do the same thing for the second bed. Basically turn all the soil that is in there, then dump a wheelbarrow or two of fresh compost on it and till it all together.

I want to mulch, but the community organizers aren't really biting. I think they worry I won't clean it up at the end of the season when the bed goes to someone else. I'll ask again but we'll have to see; I respect their rules.

Going to use tomato ton in each planting hole when the time comes. I think that's all I plan on using for amendments, maybe adding a bit more after the first fruit sets. I went to heavy on the ferts last year and it hurt the plants. Want to avoid that this year.

No pics, but I gave Jericson (Pinoy's) #2 powder a go in a couple of dishes yesterday. It's a red powder, his li hing mui and secret blend, recommended with fries. I don't eat alot of fries, but as you guys know for the next week or so I'm eating a lot of kale, so I gave it a go! Red seems to go best with the hearty kale leaves.

Whoa, on the kale it was HOT. Maybe I used a bit more than I should have, but I used about the same amount as the Yellow 7 (Jamison), MegaMix (GA Grow), and Red Scorp (Jeff H), and it definitely was a scorcher. A different kind of heat, I'd say enveloped the front and middle of my tongue. Persistent too.

A wonderful, sweet smoky aroma complemented the heat and brought out the sweetness of the kale. The flavor contrasts with the other smoked powders I have tried... much lighter and sweeter than the bacony-goodness in Jamison's pecan smoked powders. May have been the garlic I grew along with the kale, but I suspect there were some allium flavors in the #2 as well. As Jercison recommends, it would indeed go quite well with fries, but they would be HOT fries.

Also tried it with eggs, my default dish for testing powders. Dissolved about a 1/4 tsp of #2 in 2 eggs, which I then fried up on a cast iron skillet. This really subdued the heat. Must be the fats in the yolk? Who knows. Here the heat was halved but the sweet goodness was still there. Mixed some in my sweet lime jalapeno salsa as well... upped the heat there but didn't substantially alter the flavor.

Quick conclusion: #2 is great for roasting hearty veggies and for salty dishes. Very delicious bring brings a well rounded sweet heat to a dish. I'll use it in the future on roasted potatoes.

Later today or tomorrow I am going to turn the soil in the other bed and add a wheelbarrow or two of compost there was well. Also going to ask again about mulching. Unfortunately another freeze has popped up on the 10 day, so my poor root bound seedlings are gonna have to stress for another week. Had a couple of yellow leaves, but we're getting close!

Thanks for reading!

Devv · Mar 21, 2014

I bet it feels great to be outside and working, it sure works for me!

It won't be long now! That cold is coming here too, but high 40's is all. It's the wind I hate! Next year, that won't be an issue at all.

HabaneroHead · Mar 23, 2014

Plants are looking amazing!
Pruning/stripping experiment also looks good. I am going to do the same, I just let my plants to grow bigger. :-)

Balázs

stickman · Mar 23, 2014

Boy, things have sure moved forward in a couple of weeks Adam.

Seedlings are looking stellar, foodies look delectable, and I'll be watching to see how your pruning experiment goes. Keep 'em green buddy!

maximumcapsicum · Mar 26, 2014

A bit too much time is passing between updates! I am getting bogged down in work and writing... been slowing down the glogging.

But, things are about to pick up!

Next Wednesday is gonna have to be the day. We're about a week later than I anticipated earlier, so I really wish I had potted up some of the solo plants, but most are no worse for wear. A couple have some yellow leaves... not sure if its from lack of water or too much. Or just general grumpiness. In any even they'll be outside soon!

Whenever it's above 60° I've been placing the plants on the balcony all day. This gets them tons of indirect sun. I don't have access to direct sun during the day, just not the way my apartment set up, so I am hoping the week or so in the shade is enough to harden them. Pics...

Closer...

Poor carolina reaper has started to yellow a bit:

Not 100% sure why, has to be a water issue. Keeping an eye on it.

Those lucky enough for a pot up:

Ignore the sad, spindly tomatoes. Plan is to bury most of that stem when I plant them out, hopefully letting the plants recover.

APHIDS appeared on one of the plants in the gallon containers. I have no idea how they got up here... must have had some eggs somewhere in the OW's that managed to climb across the room and spread into the plants. The affect plant has been quarantined and doused with soapy water and rinsed pretty well. Will let you know how it goes.

Pruned chinenses are staying strong. Still budding a ton, so I don't think losing the foliage slowed them down that much. I am sure they'll really take off when they go outside:

Pruned white hab had 20+ buds on it. They have been denuded of course... I'll let flowers stay once they move outside but right now I am all about the leaves!!!!

Got out to the beds to get a little work done. Completely weeded and aerated the soil. Shoveled it all out and back in. Looks good... light, black, and moist. On top I added two wheelbarrows of this:

This is the farm's compost they donated to the community garden. A bit twiggy, but otherwise good. Each bed got two wheelbarrows, about 3 or 4" on top of the beds. My plan is to sprinkle 12 lbs of tomato tone (espoma) across the surface of the beds (196 square feet) then till it in with a rake. Additionally, I was thinking about gently boosting the nitrogen in the soil as well with fish emulsion after the plants are in the bed for two weeks. I am dubious about the fish emulsion though, as too much nitrogen caused me trouble last year.

To recap, soil amendments are:

4 wheelbarrows of compost
12 lbs of espoma tomato tone (3-4-6)
50% dose of Fish Emulsion (Alaska brand?)

After everything is planted I was going to put pine bark mulch or pine needles over the bed.

Any thoughts/suggestions?

Jamison · Mar 26, 2014

It's all trial and error buddy! It seems like a pretty legit idea on your part. I think once their in their final homes they will absolutely explode with new growth!

PIC 1 · Mar 26, 2014

Healthy looking plants and starting them out in the shade is a good idea for the hardening off process. I always appreciate when we can get a few days of overcast skies. Still be cautious though...a full day of sun, regardless can easily bleach out the leaves of the c.chinense varieties.

Pine needles would be a better choice of the two. Also, what wouldn't hurt is a bale of sphagnum peat divided amongst the beds...and perhaps a mix of vermiculite and perlite within the planting hole/surroundings.....if the budget permits..bone, blood meals, and worm castings mixed into the planting spot. There's no such thing as overkill when sweetening up the beds....just don't use excessive amounts of chemicals or any young composted material that can burn the roots....aged is better.

Devv · Mar 26, 2014

Nice looking plants Adam!

And you got the correct advise from a master!

Can't wait for dirt day!

maximumcapsicum · Mar 26, 2014

Jamison said:
It's all trial and error buddy! It seems like a pretty legit idea on your part. I think once their in their final homes they will absolutely explode with new growth!

Thanks for the vote of confidence Jamison! Here's hoping man!

PIC 1 said:
Healthy looking plants and starting them out in the shade is a good idea for the hardening off process. I always appreciate when we can get a few days of overcast skies. Still be cautious though...a full day of sun, regardless can easily bleach out the leaves of the c.chinense varieties.

Pine needles would be a better choice of the two. Also, what wouldn't hurt is a bale of sphagnum peat divided amongst the beds...and perhaps a mix of vermiculite and perlite within the planting hole/surroundings.....if the budget permits..bone, blood meals, and worm castings mixed into the planting spot. There's no such thing as overkill when sweetening up the beds....just don't use excessive amounts of chemicals or any young composted material that can burn the roots....aged is better.

Thanks for the tips Greg! I'll ask if I can put the bale in. I actually have some perlite in there already, and I can sprinkle in vermiculite pretty easily. Do you recommend using the bone and blood meals instead of the tomato tone? If so, how do you use it? Is the Miracle Gro bone and blood meal legit, and what kinds of amounts should I use it?

Devv said:
Nice looking plants Adam!

And you got the correct advise from a master!

Can't wait for dirt day!

Thanks Scott! Gonna take as much THP knowledge as I can!

Jeff H · Mar 27, 2014

Plants are looking good Adam. Nice to see you are so close to plant out time. Is there any way you can get a few hours of direct sunlight on your plants for a few days before they stay out there permanently? If not, maybe hang some shade cloth for a week or so? As nice as the indirect light from your porch is, the sun can really do a number on your leaves if the plants aren't used to it.

If you can't do it, don't worry about it too much. The sun scald on the leaves only damages the leaf, not the plant. It will survive.

Penny · Mar 27, 2014

Great updates, nice looking plants and its so nice to see that your able to get outside and plant....keep the pics coming.

stickman · Mar 27, 2014

PIC 1 said:
Healthy looking plants and starting them out in the shade is a good idea for the hardening off process. I always appreciate when we can get a few days of overcast skies. Still be cautious though...a full day of sun, regardless can easily bleach out the leaves of the c.chinense varieties.

Pine needles would be a better choice of the two. Also, what wouldn't hurt is a bale of sphagnum peat divided amongst the beds...and perhaps a mix of vermiculite and perlite within the planting hole/surroundings.....if the budget permits..bone, blood meals, and worm castings mixed into the planting spot. There's no such thing as overkill when sweetening up the beds....just don't use excessive amounts of chemicals or any young composted material that can burn the roots....aged is better.

+1 on that... aged is better. Decomposing wood has a tendency to suck up nitrogen, so you may need to lean on the fish emulsion a bit heavier in the early season (but still follow the application recommendations on the bottle), just ease off on it when they start to bud up. Too much will go into leaves rather than flowers.

PIC 1 · Mar 27, 2014

I'm not sure what Tomato Tone has in it. But MG is fine if you chose to go with the meals. I buy larger bags from each at a local nursery. I like to work a handful (around 1/4 c)of each meal into the planting hole which I make twice as big as the 1 gal size rootball. Within the hole also gets a hand shovel of bagged worm castings, shovel of yard compost and 2 tbl of either a 10-10-10 or Osmocote grandular...well mixed in. The planting hole gets a shovel of surrounding backfill then a spray of water then the plant get buried in. After 3 weeks or heavy flowering whichever comes first, I'll scatter some additioinal grandular on top of the soil around the root perimeter...also again when fruit is set to encourage future flowering.
Epsom Salts will get continually foliar sprayed every 2 weeks through the season. I have no need to plastic or fabric mulch...besides the soil warming up early (heavy winter composting) I like to be able to hand cultivate around the plants which not only helps with the weeds but loosens up compacted soil from heavy Summer rains...beds and containers get the same treatments.

Rick was right about most bark, pine and fir especially with absorbing the nutrients from the soil. The humus will eventually break down and become part of the soil cycle. In the meantime you can give an extra occasional weak solution boost or supplement with a foliar treatment. Using a cheap gallon pump sprayer will enable you to use the wand and hit all angles of the plants...especially under the leaves.

I've probably missed a few things but this info is my usual routine.........it's automatic

maximumcapsicum · Mar 27, 2014

Jeff H said:
Plants are looking good Adam. Nice to see you are so close to plant out time. Is there any way you can get a few hours of direct sunlight on your plants for a few days before they stay out there permanently? If not, maybe hang some shade cloth for a week or so? As nice as the indirect light from your porch is, the sun can really do a number on your leaves if the plants aren't used to it.

If you can't do it, don't worry about it too much. The sun scald on the leaves only damages the leaf, not the plant. It will survive.

Thanks Jeff! I am going to try to get them in the sunlight, especially now that the forecast dipped AGAIN. How destructive will one or two nights in the high 40's be to the plants? What is the cheapest/easiest way to cover them should it become necessary?

Penny said:
Great updates, nice looking plants and its so nice to see that your able to get outside and plant....keep the pics coming.

Thanks Penny! Will do! Need to do a good lineup like HJeff.

stickman said:
+1 on that... aged is better. Decomposing wood has a tendency to suck up nitrogen, so you may need to lean on the fish emulsion a bit heavier in the early season (but still follow the application recommendations on the bottle), just ease off on it when they start to bud up. Too much will go into leaves rather than flowers.

The veggie compost provided by the farm has been aged around a year, so I think it's pretty good. I suspect nitrogen is needed... the beds were produce kale and broccoli last season, both big nitrogen gobblers. Moreover there are more big hunks of wood in the mix than I'd like. I rake a bunch out when I prep the beds but they're always floating in there. I really need my own yard, HAH! So that is why I was thinking about compensating with the fish emulsion. At the same time I am dubious because last year I definitely over did the nitrogen for fear of sawdust in my potting mix, and my plants dropped a ton of flowers early on.

PIC 1 said:
I'm not sure what Tomato Tone has in it. But MG is fine if you chose to go with the meals. I buy larger bags from each at a local nursery. I like to work a handful (around 1/4 c)of each meal into the planting hole which I make twice as big as the 1 gal size rootball. Within the hole also gets a hand shovel of bagged worm castings, shovel of yard compost and 2 tbl of either a 10-10-10 or Osmocote grandular...well mixed in. The planting hole gets a shovel of surrounding backfill then a spray of water then the plant get buried in. After 3 weeks or heavy flowering whichever comes first, I'll scatter some additioinal grandular on top of the soil around the root perimeter...also again when fruit is set to encourage future flowering.
Epsom Salts will get continually foliar sprayed every 2 weeks through the season. I have no need to plastic or fabric mulch...besides the soil warming up early (heavy winter composting) I like to be able to hand cultivate around the plants which not only helps with the weeds but loosens up compacted soil from heavy Summer rains...beds and containers get the same treatments.

Rick was right about most bark, pine and fir especially with absorbing the nutrients from the soil. The humus will eventually break down and become part of the soil cycle. In the meantime you can give an extra occasional weak solution boost or supplement with a foliar treatment. Using a cheap gallon pump sprayer will enable you to use the wand and hit all angles of the plants...especially under the leaves.

I've probably missed a few things but this info is my usual routine.........it's automatic

This is very helpful Greg! This looks like a pretty good plan. So the bone and blood meal give you 10-10-0, and the Osmocote evens everything out. Worm castings improve the biology of the soil (luckily there are tons of earthworms in the compost I used), and you add a little more granular after the first major flowering cycle. I am wondering if the tomato tone (3-4-6 according to the company) would mitigate the need for the meals and Osmocote, maybe be a little gentler and more idiot proof. I overdid the nutes last year and hope to avoid that problem this year. Will also look into a sprayer and maybe some epsom salt, though I am a bit unclear as to what the epsom salt does.

Thanks for all the help guys, and keep the advice comin! Will have to start making a move next week, but Thursday's forecast snuck in a 42° so I may have to stay my hand. I think I've stunted my guys I've been denuding and keeping them in solos so long =(.

Devv · Mar 27, 2014

They'll do fine Adam.

They'll probably sit there for a week or two and then start to kick.

maximumcapsicum · Mar 27, 2014

Devv said:
They'll do fine Adam.

They'll probably sit there for a week or two and then start to kick.

That is what I'm thinking. I just went through the plants and fungus gnats and stress are picking up again. I think I'm gonna have to get them out sooner rather than later.

Forecast has a couple days of 41-42° before temps start picking up. Think the indoor stress or low temps will hurt them more? I do not think there are any more sub 30's days on the way. Any more thoughts?

Jamison has decided to kick my goat's weed habit up to a higher level...

I ran out of the flakes he sent so he sent some pods! I am spoiled. Gonna get these ground up as soon as possible. I've been using this goat's weed in just about every Italian style dish I've been making lately, including a ton of pizza sprinklin'. Bet this whole bag'll be gone by June. All the beautiful pube shots floating around piqued my interest as well so he sent me some monzano/rocoto seeds. Excellent! I am thinking about starting a couple of these in the grow set up after everything moves outside and babying them in pots until the winter, overwintering them and the shooting for pods in 2015.

One more question... when leaves yellow from the outside in that's a nitrogen deficiency right? Yellowing on the bottom is from too much water. I've also noticed leaves pale if they get too close to lights.

MeatHead1313 · Mar 27, 2014

maximumcapsicum said:
Thanks Jeff! I am going to try to get them in the sunlight, especially now that the forecast dipped AGAIN. How destructive will one or two nights in the high 40's be to the plants? What is the cheapest/easiest way to cover them should it become necessary?

Still new to this, but I don't think 40's will damage them too much. I've had a few of the plants I started last summer out in the elements since the last of the 30's temps passed and have had no ill effects. Even have some of the plants setting pods even with the odd nights going into the 40's. Even the plants I started more recently that were doing well enough that I thought they'd do ok outside are growing well even with the odd 40's nights. Only problem I noticed was even with the vents open in the greenhouse they weren't hardened off enough to the wind we're getting so a few are bending due to that.