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fertilizer Milorganite Fertilizer, human sludge........

armac

armac

Take a look at the ingredients on some of the ORGANIC fertilizers.......biosolids, this particular product is from the Milwaukee Sewerage Company.

Does not seem like a good ides.
 
yep' especially considering humans eat and consume terrible things that shouldnt be called food and countless pharmecuticals.... but id still use them over miracle grow anyday....
 
Stuff is for sale in your big box stores, let management know what they are selling.

What is in MG products that is more offensive than human waste, just curious.
 
just had a similiar conversation with my neighbour yesterday, next time you are in a grocery store and you have the urge to purchase organic products made in china, just remember this thread. guess what is used on food production fields in china? and i would bet the chinese version gets zero processing.

this product would most likely be the after mass left over from prior processing to create methane gas which is then burned to produce electricity. if you haven't seen the process perhaps getting a tour to see how effecient and how modern this process is. it would give you a better understanding just how good cities operate and make use of everything. brings out the science guy in me.
 
Isn't MG produced by Scotts?
I know that Scotts sell Monsanto products over here, but I thought they were seperate companies, I never really thought about it.
So is Scotts part of Monsanto?
 
Wow!
Just because of this thread I have looked into Monsanto.
All I really knew about them was that they sued farmers for growing crops that were contaminated by their GM "experiments" instead of them being sued!
I could never work that out!
Now I know much more about the bad things they are doing, and have done in the past.
I can't however find any evidence that Scotts and Monsanto are anything other than trading partners, Scotts sell Monsanto products which of course is not nice, but that doesn't mean they are owned by them any more than Walmart own Pepsi or Coke, just because they sell it.
I am fully prepared to accept that I am wrong, and indeed I would welcome any chance of learning something new.
 
Pepper-Guru said:
yep' especially considering humans eat and consume terrible things that shouldnt be called food and countless pharmecuticals.... but id still use them over miracle grow anyday....
Click to expand...

Please tell me why?

I used to think miracle gro was "bad" until I understood fertilizer a little better. It has urea nitrogen, a cheap source of N due to low shipping costs because of its high concentration, did you know urin is nothing more then urea N? I would much rather use a stable synthetic fertilizer then an unstable random organic source. Miracle gro is the same as ANY synthetic fertilizer, just some lacking macro nutrients. it has urea N which needs to be converted into nitrate N, a reason it should only be used in soil not hydroponics. If the plant is taking in the correct balance of nutrients the fruit will have more nutritional value.
 
Funny...I used to think miracle gro was "good" until I understood fertilizer a little better. :lol:

There are a MILLION reasons why sythetic fertilizers are inferior to organics. I won't even attempt to list them all or get into the biology of soil and its relation to plant health.

The bottom line is, stick with what you're comfortable with. I have no desire to convince you either way. The facts are out there ready to be accepted or ignored. If you use synthetic fertilizers and obtain apparently good results, then my all means, don't allow me to sway you from success.
 
....Well, armac said it the best......

I just think when it comes to organics I would use something quality or I composted.
 
If you understand composting and how it works, you should be able to understand milorganite (Milwaukee sewage). It's completely sterile and useful....do you think the FDA would allow its sale if it were full of pathogens?
 
It may be a prejudice on my part, but using human waste, be it sterilized and FDA approves, seems third world to me.

There are studies that there are negatives to the use of "sterilized human waste" but the FDA has been slow to followup on the studies.

In any case I feel this type of fertilizer is not for me.

My man problem with it is the way it is described on the bag, most folks in this area would not know what "biosolids" are. There should be a clearer disclaimer.
 
I've used biosolids for one season in the past. Plants grew wonderfully, but does the fact that I've never used them again tell you anything?! :)

willard3 said:
...do you think the FDA would allow its sale if it were full of pathogens?
Click to expand...

uh....YES....lol

besides, pathogens are not what Im worried about. like I said, our society in this country eats things that shouldn't even be called food, and most everyone is HEAVILY MEDICATED....thats poop I don't wanna use in my garden
 
Pepper-Guru said:
uh....YES....lol
Click to expand...

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There is also the presence of toxic metals, hormones, prescription drugs. Plus who knows what kind of chemicals are present from toilet paper, makeup, shampoo, dish soaps, or whatever people decide to pour down the drain or flush down the toilet. One study found that plants can actually absorb a lot of these drugs from the biosolids: http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/newscience/soy-plants-accumulate-drugs-antibacterials-from-biosolids/

If you read the EPA 503 rules about biosolids they use the language "pathogen reduction" and "minimizing the potential for regrowth of pathogenic bacteria." Thermophilic composting is not sterilization. According to the EPA "Composting is not a sterilization process and a properly composted product maintains an active population of beneficial microorganisms that compete against the pathogenic members. Under some conditions, explosive regrowth of pathogenic microorganisms is possible." If you just heat it to extremely high temperatures to kill all the pathogens, you also kill the beneficial bacteria too, which makes it more susceptible to pathogens colonizing the sterilized material, and takes away a lot of a major benefit of using compost in the first place (supressing diseases).

They test the sludge for some things, but don't test for a lot of other stuff (some heavy metals, carcinogens, endotoxins, etc). The workers at these plants have to wear full body suits and breathing masks. From a study on people living near farms where biosolids were applied:

"Results revealed that some reported health-related symptoms were statistically significantly elevated among the exposed residents, including excessive secretion of tears, abdominal bloating, jaundice, skin ulcer, dehydration, weight loss, and general weakness. The frequency of reported occurrence of bronchitis, upper respiratory infection, and giardiasis were also statistically significantly elevated. The findings suggest an increased risk for certain respiratory, gastrointestinal, and other diseases among residents living near farm fields on which the use of biosolids was permitted."

Sound like something you want to spread around your backyard? I understand they have to do something with the sludge, and it's illegal to dump it in the ocean. It's a noble thing to try to recycle it especially since phosphorous mines are supposedly going to run out eventually. The risk is probably pretty low, and there are toxic metals and pathogens found naturally in all soils, but it still isn't something I would use. There have also been major EPA budget cuts and deregulation the last 10 years. Class B biosolids have certain restrictions like they must be applied 20 months before planting anything and animals can't graze on land for 30 days after application. Especially now with the budget cuts and deregulation, who wants to bet some farmers are jumping the gun and not waiting the full period? Who knows, maybe some of these e. coli, salmonella, listeria (like the canteloupe one that killed 125 people) outbreaks are linked to biosolids?

I'll pass. I don't know for sure, but I would bet that those 40 lbs bags of "composted manure" and "topsoil" that sell for $1.XX probably contain sludge. They're pretty poor quality anyway.

Also, if it's OMRI certified it can't contain biosolids...

OMRI considers that sludge is synthetic for several reasons. Sludge composition varies widely, but inevitably
contains a number of constituents. In addition to organic matter from human waste, sludge also contains a broad
range of synthetic substances that have been intentionally or accidentally introduced into wastewater. These
include synthetic polymers, surfactants, metal salts, and industrial by-products. Commonly used household
products form another source of synthetic constituents found in sewage sludge. These include soaps, detergents,
cleansers, solvents, and drain cleaners. Many of these products are surfactants based on alkylphenol ethoxylates
(Talmage, 1994).
Click to expand...

Crops also cannot be certified organic by the USDA NOP they were grown with biosolids:

Organic crops. The USDA organic seal verifies that irradiation, sewage sludge, synthetic fertilizers, prohibited pesticides, and genetically modified organisms were not used.
Click to expand...
 
So. With the facts mentioned the inuendos hinted at, i guess I am at the point of admitting I do not understand the mechanics of composting, the biology of soil, and I am willing to accept substandard crop production.

Miracle Gro here I come, for I cannot see myself using human waste to grow an extra pepper or two.
 
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