No matter what the original intent was, the present intent is to incite violence, drugs, crime and whatever other lovely "statement" of the day they choose. How many times a month do you hear about these "rap idols" (lower case) getting into a shooting match in a public place? It's f**king pathetic. All that garbage sounds the same, and the thump thump thump of subwoofers is nothing more than annoying at 3am. The entire 'rap culture" (lower case) has distilled down to glorifying crime and violence. Punk had angry undertones in its inception, before its interception of "clone rock" of the 90's. However, you didn't see punk bands toting Glocks as status symbols.
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music Music time
- Thread starter Shooty*
- Start date
Ah, now we have a dilemma here.
Two dilemmas, actually: the first relates to keyboards. They have no place in a traditional "rock" band. I almost vomitted when Guns 'n' Roses added a keyboardist to their line up. Axl playing piano is OK, but how is a guy meant to "rock out" at a concert when he's behind a keyboard? Except the guys in Nine Inch Nails and Marilyn Manson, who seems to manage to do it quite well. And violently, it must be said.
But I digress: Do kids rebel agaist their parent's music taste? If I bring shooty* Jnr up on a diet of rock, will he listen to dance and rap just to establish his own identity? Should I be buying lots of CDs of car alarm music to steer him down the correct rock path?
Or do I just take it easy, and assume he'll do the right thing?
Chuk: I'll have to check out the early clash stuff.
Any of you lot ever heard of Mediaeval Babes? Bit different, quite relaxing.
Defcon: there was a headline on the front page of the BBC website the other day, "Rapper John 1 shot!" or something. Can't recall the guys name. Anyway, it struck me that this was hardly newsworthy for 2 reasons: 1: no one over here has ever heard of the guy. However, now he's been shot, commercial success can't be far behind! (though as he's only been shot once, presumably he'll only have 1/9th of the success of 50 cent) and 2: show me a rapper that's not been shot. (kid rock?)
Two dilemmas, actually: the first relates to keyboards. They have no place in a traditional "rock" band. I almost vomitted when Guns 'n' Roses added a keyboardist to their line up. Axl playing piano is OK, but how is a guy meant to "rock out" at a concert when he's behind a keyboard? Except the guys in Nine Inch Nails and Marilyn Manson, who seems to manage to do it quite well. And violently, it must be said.
But I digress: Do kids rebel agaist their parent's music taste? If I bring shooty* Jnr up on a diet of rock, will he listen to dance and rap just to establish his own identity? Should I be buying lots of CDs of car alarm music to steer him down the correct rock path?
Or do I just take it easy, and assume he'll do the right thing?
Chuk: I'll have to check out the early clash stuff.
Any of you lot ever heard of Mediaeval Babes? Bit different, quite relaxing.
Defcon: there was a headline on the front page of the BBC website the other day, "Rapper John 1 shot!" or something. Can't recall the guys name. Anyway, it struck me that this was hardly newsworthy for 2 reasons: 1: no one over here has ever heard of the guy. However, now he's been shot, commercial success can't be far behind! (though as he's only been shot once, presumably he'll only have 1/9th of the success of 50 cent) and 2: show me a rapper that's not been shot. (kid rock?)
Being a drummer for 30-some-odd years and listening to music with a different ear than "Joe Public" is both a godsend and a cruse. I have an overly critical ear when it comes to music. If I hear a guitar just slightly out of tune, or a singer with a voice that just doesn't cut it, I'm out. Can't take it.
If you ask me, the 90's ruined the music industry with just two bands. Hanson and Nirvana. Both of those bands brought out all of the record companies marketing freaks and broke down music into demographics. If there was a good band out there that didn't fit into the demographic that was selling millions, they didn't get signed. If they did, the album was shelved and the band went into debt.
With Hanson, it brought the new age of bubble-gum that hasn't really let up. Tasteless, mindless, mall-rat "music" that is entirely disposable and forgettable.
Nirvana? Don't get me started with them. Cobain was neither a musical or lyrical genious. I doubt he even knew how to tune a guitar...and that brought on a wave of people who thought that sound was cool and purposely tuned their D string flat.
I just long for the days when bands had to have some kind of talent in order to be picked up by a label.
If you ask me, the 90's ruined the music industry with just two bands. Hanson and Nirvana. Both of those bands brought out all of the record companies marketing freaks and broke down music into demographics. If there was a good band out there that didn't fit into the demographic that was selling millions, they didn't get signed. If they did, the album was shelved and the band went into debt.
With Hanson, it brought the new age of bubble-gum that hasn't really let up. Tasteless, mindless, mall-rat "music" that is entirely disposable and forgettable.
Nirvana? Don't get me started with them. Cobain was neither a musical or lyrical genious. I doubt he even knew how to tune a guitar...and that brought on a wave of people who thought that sound was cool and purposely tuned their D string flat.
I just long for the days when bands had to have some kind of talent in order to be picked up by a label.
I remember my brother standing with his nose in the corner for two hours after he defended Rick James (MaryJane) to my dad. Dad said “turn that s**t off” and then he flung that vinyl across the yard, followed up by flinging my brother into the corner to think about it for a while. Therefore eliminating the identity crisis.
Hillbilly Chili said:I remember my brother standing with his nose in the corner for two hours after he defended Rick James (MaryJane) to my dad. Dad said “turn that s**t off” and then he flung that vinyl across the yard, followed up by flinging my brother into the corner to think about it for a while. Therefore eliminating the identity crisis.
LOL! Great stuff.
I agree with much of what's being said here. However, the thought that these thugs (rap bipeds) are deemed as nearly iconic is again, pathetic. Granted, I don't and won't have kids, however, if my kid started listening to that crap, wearing his pants at his ankles, started talking "ghetto" complete with gang hand symbols, I don't think he'd be seen within the walls of a public school. I myself went to military school at a very young age, and so would he/she if they began to degenerate to the "street" level. One must remember, we can't discipline kids anymore, it's against the law. However, military school has a habit of voluntary conformity after a few good lessons in respect, something most kids have lost the definition of these days. Now, back to punk....
DevilDuck said:
I agree completely. Some of my friends complain that when we go to see some live acts around here, i spend too much time watching and critiquing the band members. I can't help it, though. I've been playing guitar for 23 years, and i'm a picky bastard.
And speaking of drumming, what's the deal with all these so called "hard rock/metal" bands nowadays with the 4/4 drumming sh*t? How do you slam dance to that? Or even mosh to it? I grew up in the early 80's listening to new wave, industrial, ska, punk, hardcore, deathmetal, etc....basically everything that wasn't being played on Z100 at the time, but mostly, deathmetal and hardcore. And those guys played some fast as hell drums. I could barely keep up with some of my friend's drum playing back then. Talk about a workout.
Funnier part is, i find as i get older, i'm turning into my dad more and more musically. I still have a bunch of hardcore/deathmetal and punk music, but almost all i listen too now is lounge music and big band....go figure, huh?
I'd disagree. But I'm 30, so I might be looking down the other end of the kaleidoscope, so to speak.
Nirvana saved us from hair metal, which was the ONLY decent form of music in the 80's/ early 90's. It had had it's day, and at it's height it was good, but when Warrant et al are approaching stardom, it's time for a change. Nine Inch Nails would have brought a revolution with pretty Hate Machine, but that was a slower burner than Nevermind.
Demographic marketing had been around for ages anyway, with boybands and pop tarts and generally shite manufactured stuff like that. Nirvana provided an alternative to that, proving that "proper" music with instruments that wasn't hair metal could be popular. Hanson were a symptom of this, not the cause. Over here, they only had 1 song anyway, that I'm aware of.
Perhaps it depends that you like: To me, the 60s were OK, beatles and all. The 70s were probably passable, Dr Hook et al. The 80s were f**king atrocious with Duran Duran, HUman League, Wham and all that leather-piano-neck-tie, bad dancing, leg warmer-wearing crap. The 90s was a glorious resurgance in taste from the insipid 80s, even if it did bring Coldplay to the world stage.
Nirvana saved us from hair metal, which was the ONLY decent form of music in the 80's/ early 90's. It had had it's day, and at it's height it was good, but when Warrant et al are approaching stardom, it's time for a change. Nine Inch Nails would have brought a revolution with pretty Hate Machine, but that was a slower burner than Nevermind.
Demographic marketing had been around for ages anyway, with boybands and pop tarts and generally shite manufactured stuff like that. Nirvana provided an alternative to that, proving that "proper" music with instruments that wasn't hair metal could be popular. Hanson were a symptom of this, not the cause. Over here, they only had 1 song anyway, that I'm aware of.
Perhaps it depends that you like: To me, the 60s were OK, beatles and all. The 70s were probably passable, Dr Hook et al. The 80s were f**king atrocious with Duran Duran, HUman League, Wham and all that leather-piano-neck-tie, bad dancing, leg warmer-wearing crap. The 90s was a glorious resurgance in taste from the insipid 80s, even if it did bring Coldplay to the world stage.
Shooty* said:
I agree except i didn't listen to Warrant and all that hair band crap(i got busted in 89 for vandalizing Enuff Znuff's tour bus near Bon Jovi's house in Rumson)...
and i didn't mind Duran Duran or Human League, but they weren't what i really listened to.
I did mostly Ozzy and Iron Maidenin the beginning, then it was M.O.D. and S.O.D. and Anthrax and Circle Jerks, Warzone, Shock Mommies, J.F.A.!!, and Sick Of It All, with a splattering of BauHaus and Tones on Tail and Skinny Puppy mixed in for good measure.
I wouldn't call the 90's a "glorious resurgance" at all. To me, it seemd like music lost all of it's originality then.
Hmmm, not sure if I totally agree with your opinion, but so be it. The 80's had far too many Top 40 type bands agreed. However, the "hair" bands were a separate group than the actual metal bands that co-existed with them. I dare say you wouldn't group Bon Jovi in the same league as Dio or Queensryche. Metal survived the 80's, but when the 90's hit, the infamous "Clone Rock" surfaced. Every band sounded the same. Nirvana-esque took over the airwaves, and still does but to less an extreme. The supposed "punk" bands like Green Day and that crap cause nothing more than headaches. The 80's at least had diversity, and alternative stuff was actually alternative. They call everything "alternative" these days, doesn't that make it the "norm"? The 90's were like white noise when it comes to music. The 80's were mostly experimental types of music (albeit the clothing was hideous), most of which didn't survive. As was said in an earlier post, if you didn't sound like Kurt Kaboom and Nirvana, you didn't get signed. I still haven't heard very much good music out these days, as originality seems to have been tossed out the proverbial window. Every week some "Clone" band is cutting a remake of an old song, it's pitiful.
Kudos on the Enuff Z'Nuff thing, though I have to admit to having fly high michelle and mother's eyes on my iPod. Sorry.
I think we all agree that cover versions are normally a bad idea if undertaken by pop bands.
It's like this one fella has completely ruined a decent NIN song called Hurt. Johnny something. Cash, that's it. Johnny Cash. Bl**dy one hit wonder.
80's/ 90's Bands I never heard the music of, but which always appeared in Rock magazines, Pt 1:
Tesla, RATT, Dokken, Lynch Mob, Great White, White Lion, Mindfunk
Remind me: Do you guys have Take That, 5ive, Boyzone, Westlife, Girls Aloud, etc type things over there, or did your boyband thing begin and end with that band that Timberlake was in? N Sync. Heh heh heh.
I think we all agree that cover versions are normally a bad idea if undertaken by pop bands.
It's like this one fella has completely ruined a decent NIN song called Hurt. Johnny something. Cash, that's it. Johnny Cash. Bl**dy one hit wonder.
80's/ 90's Bands I never heard the music of, but which always appeared in Rock magazines, Pt 1:
Tesla, RATT, Dokken, Lynch Mob, Great White, White Lion, Mindfunk
Remind me: Do you guys have Take That, 5ive, Boyzone, Westlife, Girls Aloud, etc type things over there, or did your boyband thing begin and end with that band that Timberlake was in? N Sync. Heh heh heh.
At least we have consensus on what terrible music sounds like. Seeing so many other musicians here kind of makes me wonder why I'm the only Dream Theater fan though. I would think that they would be right down some people's alleys. Mike Portnoy is considered the premier modern drummer, and Petrucci is an extremely talented guitarist. If DT isn't heavy enough for you, try Therion, Blind Guardian, or Symphony X. I also got recommendations on the softer side to if anyone is interested, but Dream Theater is about as great as a band can be over a prolonged career.
I disagree with Shooty's take on Keyboards though. A talented keyboardist can add new levels of complexity to a song. Don't make me make a demo...
I disagree with Shooty's take on Keyboards though. A talented keyboardist can add new levels of complexity to a song. Don't make me make a demo...
I think each decade had good music, the 70s being my favorite followed by the 60s,80s,90s and 00s. You just have to look behind the mainstream to find it. You guys are mostly talking about what was mainstream..things that won grammys and were in Billborad. That stuff never matters to me. Ya gotta dig to find the gold.
I'm a big fan of Jazz, Big Band Swing and Classical but here I'll just address the current topic, "Popular Music".
I think Nirvana was a great band. There, I said it. Conbain had some serious chops and it's obvious by now how talented Dave Grohl is. But here's the deal. They were like the most marketable of the grunge bands. Sort of the Beatles to Mudhoney's Stones. When they got signed to a major and caught fire all the bloodsucking maggots at the record labels wanted another "Nirvana" thus began the signing of godawful crap like Pearl Jam and Stone Temple Pilots .It was downhill from there. Downhill quite a long way. Don't get me started on Numetal.
I don't see keyboards as being any less of a "rock" instrument than anything else. It's just in how they're used. My all time favorite band, the amazing Blue Oyster Cult uses them pretty extensively. Hell, listen to some Deep 'f'n' Purple.
I've always been open to electronic music. I dug stuff like Eno, Devo and Kraftwerk when I was in highschool. I love the sound of synthesizers. A favorite artist is Thomas Dolby, especially his work with Lena Lovitch. I think DEVO ( who are flat out genius in my book) proved that keyboards can be as punk as any guitar riff. Listen to that first album. Being open to experimental music lead me to stuff like Throbbing Gristle and SPK. Later bands like Einsturzede Neuabaten and Test Dept. Industrial before Industrial was cool ( or disco). I've listened to a lot of stuff most people wouldn't even all music. Check out the Boredoms from Japan or Non or Whitehouse or Coils more "out-there" experiments. Music can really be anything.
When I first heard House music I dug it, particularly Acid-House.Since I was into TG Genesis P caught my attention with what he was doing in Psychic TV; pushing the bounds of electronic and dance music, creating a new "psychedelic" music. Very repetitive electronic dance music. Trance music. I still dig that stuff. When the "Electronica" wave came along in the 90s I was all over that. I still dig stuff like Prodigy, Chemical Brothers and The Future Sounds of London. Killer stuff.
"Goth" for lack of a better term? Yeah I like it! Bauhaus, Birthday Party ( later Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds) Siouxe and the Banshees, The Cure, Sisters of Mercy all that stuff I dig. I also like the more morbid punk bands like 45 Grave and the Misfits.
Rap. OK, touchy subject open this board but I think it's just as valid a genre as anything else. I guess it was RUN DMC that made me like rap, mixing in heavy rock elements. Of course the Beastie Boys have always been fun...especially when they first broke in the 80s with Licence to Ill. Some rap groups I like are Public Enemy, Ice-t, NWA and the Geto Boys. Especially the Geto Boys although they are partially responsible for bringing rap to the sorry state it is in today.
I can't really argue with a lot of Defcon's venom regarding the state of rap today. It sucks for the most part. And I really don't like having it forced on me when I'm stopped at a light and some 2-bit gangsta wannabe or worse, some stupid white boy, is blasting some godawful
THUMP THUMP THUMP shaking my truck. Makes me wanna reach for my .45 and give 'em an attitude adjustment. These morons are gonna be deaf by they time they turn 25.
There's some decent Rap out these days but you gotta look for it. I think the Outkast crew are near brilliant and I can dig on stuff like Jurasic 5. Too bad it's mostly degenerated into a bunch of lowest common denominator bulls**t. Yeah, rap culture sucks.
I've been listening to more and more country these days. Of course I like the old school stuff like Willie, CASH, Billy Joe Shaver, Merle, Coe, etc, Gimme the outlaw stuff and a glass of whisky and I'm a happy man. I really like Hank Williams 3's new album "Straight to Hell" . That album rules. Youngsters like him ans Shooter Jennings may be the only salvation of country music but I doubt if they can save it from the godawful state it's fallen into. The stuff that comes out of Nashville these days is not even country as far as I'm concerned. It's bad rock or pop and it sucks as bad as most rap, but in a different way.
OK, that's quite a ramble. To sum it up I'll say I like music from almost all genres ( not big on polka or Tejano), but you just gotta dig underground a little to find the good stuff.
I'm a big fan of Jazz, Big Band Swing and Classical but here I'll just address the current topic, "Popular Music".
I think Nirvana was a great band. There, I said it. Conbain had some serious chops and it's obvious by now how talented Dave Grohl is. But here's the deal. They were like the most marketable of the grunge bands. Sort of the Beatles to Mudhoney's Stones. When they got signed to a major and caught fire all the bloodsucking maggots at the record labels wanted another "Nirvana" thus began the signing of godawful crap like Pearl Jam and Stone Temple Pilots .It was downhill from there. Downhill quite a long way. Don't get me started on Numetal.
I don't see keyboards as being any less of a "rock" instrument than anything else. It's just in how they're used. My all time favorite band, the amazing Blue Oyster Cult uses them pretty extensively. Hell, listen to some Deep 'f'n' Purple.
I've always been open to electronic music. I dug stuff like Eno, Devo and Kraftwerk when I was in highschool. I love the sound of synthesizers. A favorite artist is Thomas Dolby, especially his work with Lena Lovitch. I think DEVO ( who are flat out genius in my book) proved that keyboards can be as punk as any guitar riff. Listen to that first album. Being open to experimental music lead me to stuff like Throbbing Gristle and SPK. Later bands like Einsturzede Neuabaten and Test Dept. Industrial before Industrial was cool ( or disco). I've listened to a lot of stuff most people wouldn't even all music. Check out the Boredoms from Japan or Non or Whitehouse or Coils more "out-there" experiments. Music can really be anything.
When I first heard House music I dug it, particularly Acid-House.Since I was into TG Genesis P caught my attention with what he was doing in Psychic TV; pushing the bounds of electronic and dance music, creating a new "psychedelic" music. Very repetitive electronic dance music. Trance music. I still dig that stuff. When the "Electronica" wave came along in the 90s I was all over that. I still dig stuff like Prodigy, Chemical Brothers and The Future Sounds of London. Killer stuff.
"Goth" for lack of a better term? Yeah I like it! Bauhaus, Birthday Party ( later Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds) Siouxe and the Banshees, The Cure, Sisters of Mercy all that stuff I dig. I also like the more morbid punk bands like 45 Grave and the Misfits.
Rap. OK, touchy subject open this board but I think it's just as valid a genre as anything else. I guess it was RUN DMC that made me like rap, mixing in heavy rock elements. Of course the Beastie Boys have always been fun...especially when they first broke in the 80s with Licence to Ill. Some rap groups I like are Public Enemy, Ice-t, NWA and the Geto Boys. Especially the Geto Boys although they are partially responsible for bringing rap to the sorry state it is in today.
I can't really argue with a lot of Defcon's venom regarding the state of rap today. It sucks for the most part. And I really don't like having it forced on me when I'm stopped at a light and some 2-bit gangsta wannabe or worse, some stupid white boy, is blasting some godawful
THUMP THUMP THUMP shaking my truck. Makes me wanna reach for my .45 and give 'em an attitude adjustment. These morons are gonna be deaf by they time they turn 25.
There's some decent Rap out these days but you gotta look for it. I think the Outkast crew are near brilliant and I can dig on stuff like Jurasic 5. Too bad it's mostly degenerated into a bunch of lowest common denominator bulls**t. Yeah, rap culture sucks.
I've been listening to more and more country these days. Of course I like the old school stuff like Willie, CASH, Billy Joe Shaver, Merle, Coe, etc, Gimme the outlaw stuff and a glass of whisky and I'm a happy man. I really like Hank Williams 3's new album "Straight to Hell" . That album rules. Youngsters like him ans Shooter Jennings may be the only salvation of country music but I doubt if they can save it from the godawful state it's fallen into. The stuff that comes out of Nashville these days is not even country as far as I'm concerned. It's bad rock or pop and it sucks as bad as most rap, but in a different way.
OK, that's quite a ramble. To sum it up I'll say I like music from almost all genres ( not big on polka or Tejano), but you just gotta dig underground a little to find the good stuff.
ya, when it comes to the keyboards thing, i'm in agreeance with Chuk and Dreamtheater...in fact, one of my best friends is a near genius with a keyboard...you know, self taught, could play like Keith Emerson in like 3 years, etc, etc. He got me into Thomas Dolby and Howard Jones and Jan Hammer(the guy who wrote the original Miami Vice theme music) stuff big time. Gotta have respect for a guy who walks into Macy's in NYC once and sat down at their Grand Piano they had in the middle of the store and started playing the "Peanuts" theme and then shifted into some Beethoven and then does the music to the Marble Madness video game...
Ok..i think i started this "keyboard" thing.. I think you have misinterpreted what i meant by that. All i sayd was that Psycadelic Furs was punk-rock all the way BEFORE they started bringing in the keaboards...i LOVE keaboard sound in rock music(ie. Deep Purple, Pink Floyd)
I will agree with the synth bands of old. Devo was in my mind one of the synth defining band of the late 70's and early 80's. Duty Now For The Future is a great album. Thomas Dolby was quite eccentric, in a good way, and put out some VERY diverse music. One synth band that seems to have gotten overlooked is Ultravox. I first saw them on TV during Don Kirchner's Rock Concert (OK, I'm dating myself) and thought they were great with the Vienna album. I then started grabbing everything I could find that they made, and there was some truly interesting albums cut by Ultravox. Furutre Sounds Of London is awesomely strange stuff, as is My Life With The Thrill Kill Kult. Kraftwerk, after Brian Eno and his Mellotron, they were the TRUE original pioneers of minimalist electronic sounds. Hell, take a listen to many commercials on tv, and you'll hear them in the background to this day.
Many of the electronic ideas came from the 80's era. Bands like Art Of Noise, Joy Division/New Order, Yellow Magic Orchestra, Orchestral Manoeuvers In The Dark (the early stuff), Tuxedomoon, Tackhead, Tangerine Dream and Synergy to name a few, have definitely influenced the music of today. Another pioneer band, Yello, has stood the test of time, as has Gary Numan, and even Sigue Sigue Sputnik (Yeah, I'm surprised about SSS).
Many interesting electronic-based bands kind fo faded away, but are worth an honorable mention. Bands like Dalek I Love You, Landscape, Mi-Sex, Missing Persons and as far as I know, Telex were good in their own right. Hell, even Paul Hardcastle was a pioneer, not unlike Herbie Hancock, when it came to synthing jazz. Some of the bands that influenced today's new industrial revolution are still pumping out music, like Ministry, KMFDM, and Front 242.
As long as music grows, and doesn't fall into stagnation, like witnessed in the 90's, the future looks bright (I gotta wear shades), sorry, with all this 80's talk, I couldn't resist.
Many of the electronic ideas came from the 80's era. Bands like Art Of Noise, Joy Division/New Order, Yellow Magic Orchestra, Orchestral Manoeuvers In The Dark (the early stuff), Tuxedomoon, Tackhead, Tangerine Dream and Synergy to name a few, have definitely influenced the music of today. Another pioneer band, Yello, has stood the test of time, as has Gary Numan, and even Sigue Sigue Sputnik (Yeah, I'm surprised about SSS).
Many interesting electronic-based bands kind fo faded away, but are worth an honorable mention. Bands like Dalek I Love You, Landscape, Mi-Sex, Missing Persons and as far as I know, Telex were good in their own right. Hell, even Paul Hardcastle was a pioneer, not unlike Herbie Hancock, when it came to synthing jazz. Some of the bands that influenced today's new industrial revolution are still pumping out music, like Ministry, KMFDM, and Front 242.
As long as music grows, and doesn't fall into stagnation, like witnessed in the 90's, the future looks bright (I gotta wear shades), sorry, with all this 80's talk, I couldn't resist.