seeds My seedling keep losing leaves!

[Flakes]

Hi!

I've now been trying to grow my chilies for a couple of months and I just haven't had much success. It seem like at a certain point, about the second set of true leaves in, my seedlings start losing leaves. The bottom pair turns yellow and just falls off after a couple of days. Up to that point they really look like they're doing great, but than they stagnate and just don't seem to be doing all that well.

I've tried a couple of different things like watering less/more - because I know yellow leaves can singify overwatering, I've tried a couple of different soils, I've tried growing them in peat pots and in regular plastic pots, I've tried adjusting the distance from the light (I have a 125w 6400K growlight), I've installed two computer fans on my makeshift growbox and I keep them running while the light's on (which is on a timer, 18h on, 6h off).

I've not had any experience growing chilis before (or anything else, really) and this is really kicking my butt. I mean, I imagine it's not normal for my seedlings to keep losing their bottom leaves, right? The plants I'm growing are Red Savina, I got the seeds from chileseeds.co.uk. I've got to say, this is quite frustrating, can you guys help me out?

 

[Avon Barksdale]

How are you watering them? I've had a few lose some leaves and I think the cause is water getting on the leaves, then acting like a magnifying glass for the light which intensifies the light and burns the leaves and turns them yellow. At first I tried watering them by carefully pouring water from a 2-liter around the seedling, but the water was disturbing the soil too much so I started using a spray bottle and tried to carefully soak the soil around the seedling. I noticed the seedlings get water on them and then get burnt by the light. I recently picked up a big rectangular lid from a plastic tote that I fill with water and now I just place the tray of seedlings in the water and let them soak it up from the bottom so that the leaves don't get wet (I'm using little plastic nursery pots with a 4x8 tray made for them, both have drain holes). The yellowing has stopped since I started doing this. It's also far simpler and easier than trying to water them individually.

Most here seem to prefer to water from the bottom because it keeps the leaves dry and encourages downward root growth as well.

Could be a number of things though I'm sure, but that's what my problem was (as far as I can tell anyway). Yours could just be over watering.

Also, people are going to ask you to post pictures, so you might as well break out the cell phone or camera now.

 

[Flakes]

How are you watering them? I've had a few lose some leaves and I think the cause is water getting on the leaves, then acting like a magnifying glass for the light which intensifies the light and burns the leaves and turns them yellow. At first I tried watering them by carefully pouring water from a 2-liter around the seedling, but the water was disturbing the soil too much so I started using a spray bottle and tried to carefully soak the soil around the seedling. I noticed the seedlings get water on them and then get burnt by the light. I recently picked up a big rectangular lid from a plastic tote that I fill with water and now I just place the tray of seedlings in the water and let them soak it up from the bottom so that the leaves don't get wet (I'm using little plastic nursery pots with a 4x8 tray made for them, both have drain holes). The yellowing has stopped since I started doing this. It's also far simpler and easier than trying to water them individually.

Most here seem to prefer to water from the bottom because it keeps the leaves dry and encourages downward root growth as well.

Could be a number of things though I'm sure, but that's what my problem was (as far as I can tell anyway). Yours could just be over watering.

Yeah, possible, but I really try to wait until the soil is dry - I've even lost a seedling by being a bit too stingy with the water, it just shriveled up and died one day overnight while its buddies were in critical condition as well. I've never really thought about not getting water on the leaves, so I'll make sure not to do that. But really, it's not that likely anyway, I actually use a little syringe (or whatever you call the plastic thing without the needle), so I can get to them without having to move them out of the growbox (and I can tell how much water I use one each).

Also, people are going to ask you to post pictures, so you might as well break out the cell phone or camera now.

Hehe, yeah... I'll have to get hold of a camera first, everything I have has crappy resolution.

 

[Burning Colon]

Most here seem to prefer to water from the bottom because it keeps the leaves dry and encourages downward root growth as well

The downward root growth thing is true but i can't buy into the keeping leaves dry thing, i mist my plants all the time, the seedlings that are in my dwc are covered my a dome and their leaves are wet, the soil seedlings that are in my small heated greenhouse have moisture dripping off the leaves and i put water on the bottom of the tray and some plants that are in 4" containers are literally touching the plastic cover still wet. When i water my 1 gallon plants in the bathtub, i soak the leaves as well(to help in discouraging aphids), let them dry off in the tub then hit them again with a mist of epsom salts before returning them to their south facing window ledge.

Flakester, try giving your plants a shot of epsom salts and if you believe they are looking sickly, put an asparin in a couple quarts of water and give them a shot of that(in the soil, not the leaves).

 

[Josh]

This goes with what you were saying Burning Colon.

 

[geeme]

It's not really clear from your post, but are they losing the first set of true leaves, or are they losing their cotyledons? (Cotyledons a.k.a. "seed leaves")

 

[Avon Barksdale]

The downward root growth thing is true but i can't buy into the keeping leaves dry thing, i mist my plants all the time, the seedlings that are in my dwc are covered my a dome and their leaves are wet, the soil seedlings that are in my small heated greenhouse have moisture dripping off the leaves and i put water on the bottom of the tray and some plants that are in 4" containers are literally touching the plastic cover still wet. When i water my 1 gallon plants in the bathtub, i soak the leaves as well(to help in discouraging aphids), let them dry off in the tub then hit them again with a mist of epsom salts before returning them to their south facing window ledge.

Flakester, try giving your plants a shot of epsom salts and if you believe they are looking sickly, put an asparin in a couple quarts of water and give them a shot of that(in the soil, not the leaves).

Well, I was referring to my seedlings that have been transplanted and are under direct light. I still have a mini-greenhouse full of seedlings under the same light that I mist frequently, leaves and all. They have water on them a lot of the time but they never show any of the leaf scorch, I assumed because they weren't getting as intense of light because of the plastic dome.

This goes with what you were saying Burning Colon.

Hmm...interesting read, there definitely seemed to be a direct relationship in my case, but I suppose there may have been some other cause. There were yellow splotches on a few of the leaves on the seedlings that received the most intense light not long after misting them, before that there was nothing. Looked like a water drop type of pattern, but I don't know. This is my first year from seed so I'm still trying to figure things out.

 

[Flakes]

Flakester, try giving your plants a shot of epsom salts and if you believe they are looking sickly, put an asparin in a couple quarts of water and give them a shot of that(in the soil, not the leaves).

Ok, two new words in my vocabulary - epsom and asparin. Or did you mean aspirin?

 

[Flakes]

It's not really clear from your post, but are they losing the first set of true leaves, or are they losing their cotyledons? (Cotyledons a.k.a. "seed leaves")

True leaves (well, both actually).

 

[Avon Barksdale]

Ok, two new words in my vocabulary - epsom and asparin. Or did you mean aspirin?

Epsom salt= magnesium sulfate, often used to correct magnesium deficiency in plants that require a lot of magnesium, such as chiles, especially for potted plants. It has a wide variety of uses, not just for gardening, so it's pretty easy to find in big department stores, at least in the US. A lot of gardeners use it.

And yeah he meant aspirin. Plants produce methyl salicylate to boost their immune system when under duress. There is some evidence that giving plants an aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) solution improves their growth and helps them fight off diseases. http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/09/19/plants-stress-aspirin.html

 

[Flakes]

Epsom salt= magnesium sulfate, often used to correct magnesium deficiency in plants that require a lot of magnesium, such as chiles, especially for potted plants. It has a wide variety of uses, not just for gardening, so it's pretty easy to find in big department stores, at least in the US. A lot of gardeners use it.

And yeah he meant aspirin. Plants produce methyl salicylate to boost their immune system when under duress. There is some evidence that giving plants an aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) solution improves their growth and helps them fight off diseases. http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/09/19/plants-stress-aspirin.html

Cool, thanks. I guess I'll try the aspirin first, since I have it at home. Here goes nothing!

 

[Dot Com]

This goes with what you were saying Burning Colon.

Epsom salt= magnesium sulfate, often used to correct magnesium deficiency in plants that require a lot of magnesium, such as chiles, especially for potted plants. It has a wide variety of uses, not just for gardening, so it's pretty easy to find in big department stores, at least in the US. A lot of gardeners use it.

And yeah he meant aspirin. Plants produce methyl salicylate to boost their immune system when under duress. There is some evidence that giving plants an aspirin (acetylsalicylic acid) solution improves their growth and helps them fight off diseases. http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2008/09/19/plants-stress-aspirin.html

+2 for both the posts. I had heard these mentioned here but had not know the reason behind the assertions.

 

[Burning Colon]

And yeah he meant aspirin

thanks Barkie, yes, when i am trying to type as fast as possible and have to pick my girls up at their bus stop, i try to respond as fast as possible, yah, even here in Canada we get fuckin' crap, yah, fuckin' crap, people trying to abduct children, just a day ago someone tried to adbuct a child just minutes from from my girls school, lucky enough we have a description of the the flea bag, and you can be sure i will be watching like a pitbull and i am someone you really want to be on the growing pepper side of a discussion.

hey josh, thanks for tossing that in, its a good read.

good catch dot.com on the items, i had to give my hot lemons aspirin when i moved them from dwc to soil, they just didn't like it, the caribeanian red had no problem but the hot lemons showed leaf wilt, so i gave them a dose of aspirin and all is good.

I do get bottom leaves that turn yellow and drop but i just put that down to just plain natural plant progression, if you think your plants are under stress then listen to the other members that have contributed, many of our members have been through a lot of trying times and through systematic tribulation have resolved a lot of their own issues.

well that's my last post on this issue

 

[Avon Barksdale]

thanks Barkie, yes, when i am trying to type as fast as possible and have to pick my girls up at their bus stop, i try to respond as fast as possible, yah, even here in Canada we get fuckin' crap, yah, fuckin' crap, people trying to abduct children, just a day ago someone tried to adbuct a child just minutes from from my girls school, lucky enough we have a description of the the flea bag, and you can be sure i will be watching like a pitbull and i am someone you really want to be on the growing pepper side of a discussion.

Well, that is definitely some crap. Hope they catch the bastard.

 

[Flakes]

thanks Barkie, yes, when i am trying to type as fast as possible and have to pick my girls up at their bus stop, i try to respond as fast as possible, yah, even here in Canada we get fuckin' crap, yah, fuckin' crap, people trying to abduct children, just a day ago someone tried to adbuct a child just minutes from from my girls school, lucky enough we have a description of the the flea bag, and you can be sure i will be watching like a pitbull and i am someone you really want to be on the growing pepper side of a discussion.

Damn, that's not good. Kick his ass!

Hey0 josh, thanks for tossing that in, its a good read.

good catch dot.com on the items, i had to give my hot lemons aspirin when i moved them from dwc to soil, they just didn't like it, the caribeanian red had no problem but the hot lemons showed leaf wilt, so i gave them a dose of aspirin and all is good.

I do get bottom leaves that turn yellow and drop but i just put that down to just plain natural plant progression, if you think your plants are under stress then listen to the other members that have contributed, many of our members have been through a lot of trying times and through systematic tribulation have resolved a lot of their own issues.

well that's my last post on this issue

Thank you Burnin Colon, I'll be sure to try everything you've said.

 

[Flakes]

Ok, I've started my seedlings on a mild aspirin diet and now I've gotten myself the epsom salt which I'll be trying next. If any of you have any experience with it, what would be the apporpriate amount to use? I mean how much magnesium sulfate per liter/quart/gallon/yourfavoriteuniteofmeasurement does one use?

I've googled it and I've gotten some conflicting numbers, so I decided to ask the professionals!

A couple of tea-spoons per liter?

 

[Datil Patch]

1/4 tablespoon per gallon, if you are watering daily.

 

[Flakes]

1/4 tablespoon per gallon, if you are watering daily.

Thank you!

I was thinking more something like once a week...

 

[megamoo]

I am getting the same thing with the yellowing leaves and lots of leaves dropping. It may be something that is in the water that is causing it, for your plants and mine. I give them epsom salts now and then and it doesn't seem to make a difference to the problem.

Where is your water coming from? If it is regular tap water it might have lots of chemicals in it. I get my water out of a filter system that I use for drinking. It might have something going on which is good for people and not for my plants. Apparently if you are using tap water you should let it sit for a while to let the chlorine evaporate.

I haven't tried testing every variable because I'm too busy with other things at the moment. I tried easing up on the watering, like you did, and I had some die and the yellowing remained.

I am suspicious that my soil may have gotten some unhappy bugs in it causing root rot or something like it. When I move house in the next week (hopefully!) they will have to leave the grow cupboard and go outside. I will pot up a lot of them too, and I'll check out the roots.

At the moment my best guess is water quality or infection. You should consider these things for your unhappy plants too.

 

[Flakes]

I am getting the same thing with the yellowing leaves and lots of leaves dropping. It may be something that is in the water that is causing it, for your plants and mine. I give them epsom salts now and then and it doesn't seem to make a difference to the problem.

Where is your water coming from? If it is regular tap water it might have lots of chemicals in it. I get my water out of a filter system that I use for drinking. It might have something going on which is good for people and not for my plants. Apparently if you are using tap water you should let it sit for a while to let the chlorine evaporate.

I haven't tried testing every variable because I'm too busy with other things at the moment. I tried easing up on the watering, like you did, and I had some die and the yellowing remained.

I am suspicious that my soil may have gotten some unhappy bugs in it causing root rot or something like it. When I move house in the next week (hopefully!) they will have to leave the grow cupboard and go outside. I will pot up a lot of them too, and I'll check out the roots.

At the moment my best guess is water quality or infection. You should consider these things for your unhappy plants too.

Thanks Megamoo,

Yeah, I'm using stale tap water - just like on all other plants. The water quality where I live is very good (so not much chlorine, if any)and the other plants seem to be enjoying it, so I don't think that's the problem. However, I do think root rot is quite possibly why my planties have been suffering. I've been testing using hydrogen peroxide to help with that (about a 0.1% solution) and I'll let you know if it works out. On a positive note, since I've used the aspirin, none of the leaves have turned yellow/fallen off, but it's only been a few days, so that's hardly conclusive.