New growth curling outwards

Sarge

Sarge

Hey all,
 
Well its been about a week a some days since I moved my seedlings out to the dirt and everything is going fine. They are starting to get thick, almost doubled stalk thickness and the quantity of new bud growth on the stalks is impressive.
 
But I have noticed on most of my plants, the upper new leaves are curling or growing like something is pinching them in a corner. Since I put them in the dirt, I have not fed them with anything but they did get some slow release fertz and some compost added to the soil. I don't know if this is a nutrient deficiency or excessive watering. I do not water much but the soil here does NOT retain very much water at all. If its watered in the morning it could be dry 5" deep by mid day on a hot day.
 
Today the sun was intense, 41C late spring, very hot dry winds. The plants were wilting very badly to the point some of my potted plants lost leaves after they were baked to a crisp. I can't help but to water them deep into the roots, it brings them back up very quickly. The sun is drawing alot of moisture from the soil and plants if I don't water them, I'll have a garden full of crunchy pepper leaves.
 
Ive attached pictures of the plant showing the most severe case. Its only one leaf, maybe two. You can see the leaf is curling over.
 
If I back off my watering and this weather continues, the plants will die. We're on track for the hottest spring on record.
 

 
The pic below is the same leaf, flipped over.
 

 
There are no aphids, there are no white flies, no other visible pests. No spider mites. Broadmites aren't known in these areas.
 
I'm leaning towards a heat and watering issue over a over fertilizing issue. Also seeing some purple around the forks on the plant. Alot of sources suggest its not an issue but some say a potential lack in phosphorus.
 
Anybody able to give me any pointers? I can get more pictures of necessary. The new growth along the stalk looks just fine. Old leaves look just fine. Seems to be with the newer leaves. Could it be stress?
 
Not a definite but it could be thrip damage. It looks very similar to what I have observed of the early stages of the damage caused by the thrips here. The little buggers are very tiny and easy to miss. At first glance, they look like nothing more than a tiny speck of potting mix matter that has been splashed up. Twisting of the leaves follows.
 
Are there any herbacides in use around your house? Maybe a long shot but another potential cause.
 
Or perhaps maybe just some kind of weather issue or nute imbalance after all? That would be nice, wouldn't it! :)
 
(Here in Brissy, anything that isn't caused by pests is actually good news... ;))
 
Ive taken to some leaves under a magnifying glass and see nothing. I do see alot of dirt under the leaves and as you suggest, they look like splashed up dirt and what not. Would there be any harm in giving them a once over with pyrethrum?
 
No herbicides. Theres no grass here so what ever little weeds there are are usually pulled manually.
 
If it doesn't hurt to squirt them with the pesticide, ill do that and see how they go in about a week! Gut feeling telling me its fert related. There is some fert burn on some leaves.
 
If you look at the first pic you can see the burn and thats what looks like is causing the leaf to curl on it self and kink in.
 
I don't do precautionary pesticide strikes anymore. I value the natural predators and other beneficial insects here far too much. Maybe a hit of garden soap instead? Less chance you are going to harm any of the larger natural predators and other benes around (ladybugs, parasitic wasps, bees, etc). But yeah, even then I'm more likely to hold off on even the soap these days, unless I know I have to, and just see how things play out. As it turns out, while thrips do rear their ugly mugs here from time to time, it appears the predators do a good enough job on their own swiftly neutralising the threat. One less pest I have to actively destroy myself. :D But that's just how I see and do things now.
 
And hopefully it's not pest related anyway. ;)
 
Is certainly caused by insect pests. If you want you can deal with a biological product such as neem oil, which also has a fertilising power ;)
 
I'm not entirely convinced its pests. Most bugs Ive seen(pest or not) are always on the lower older leaves and the only pests Ive seen on these plants are white flies and the quantity of white flies, I could count on my hands. I gave them a spray with pyrethrum none the less since I do not have neem oil and this stuff is still 100% organic. It can and will kill thrips, aphids white flies and some others.
 
All the new growth up the stalk of the plant looks great, just fine. The new growth from the top is either curling or showing some burning even on tiny little leaves.
 
Most sap-sucking pests I've dealt with appear to prefer new growth. Broad mite, for one, will ONLY feed on new growth unless over-populated. While not as extreme in their preferences, the thrips and aphids here also appear to show preference to new growth. When I see localized curling/damage, as opposed to the whole plant being affected, pests are always my first thought.
 
I pulled off the leaf in the picture above and had a close look at it under a macro lens, couldn't see anything pest related. If it is pests I'll give them a weekly hit with the pesticide Ive got until the neem oil arrives. Should I pinch off the affected leaves?
 
dude like gasificada said, looks like thrips. I had them twice, both times my leaves looked just like yours. Very hard to see until you have a mass breakout, and then very hard to get rid of. They move and reproduce extremely fast. I recently got rid of them with spinosad, seems to be the only thing that worked and I tried them all, neem, ladybugs, bonide orchard spray, sevn, azamax. Nothing till i hit them with spinosad. Had to do 2 sprays with 7 days between and no more thrips. Had to loose quite a few plants until I got it done.
 
IMG_1048_zpsb70f9bfe.jpg

 
Your plants may keep putting out flowers but the production will drop drastically. As soon as I got rid of my thrips the plants exploded in flowers and pods.
 
BTW if you are going to treat for thrips don't forget to spray or drench the soil as well (I learned this is very important for thrips)
 
Good luck!
 
Shit that does look like the leaves I have up top.
 
After looking at what mites do, I don't think I have mites. No patchy leaves etc just curling of the top leaves. I have no idea what spinosad is but I'll check if I can get it locally. The only bug Ive seen on my plants which I have no idea what it is is these thin brown long looking bugs, about half a cm in length and no more than 1mm thick. They move pretty slow but do have wings. I crush all unknown bugs on site.
 
Should I be removing the leaves which are damaged? Do thrips hang at the bottom of leaves? Ive got some brutal pesticide(chemical based) and the stuff I am using now. When the sun drops, they will get another spray.
 
Pac_Heat507 said:
Spinosad is an ingredient in some pesticides. Monterrey insect spray has it. Its organic OMRI certified.
 
http://www.ghorganics.com/MontereyGardenSpraySpinosad.html

BTW dont remove the leaves. just spray all the plant especially new growth, under leaves and the soil. Basically the WHOLE plant.
Click to expand...
 
I found a pesticide locally which has that stuff as a primary ingredient but it does not suggest thrips as part of its target pest but mainly caterpillars etc.
 
I took a photo of two bugs I spotted on my plants, I have no idea what these are, if they are or aren't thrip in any stage. Maybe you have an idea?
 

 
This one here Ive seen a few of. I know there is a lacewing population around, I have no idea if this is one of their stages of cycle or if its something else. They are ALWAYS on the bottom of leaves and either walk away or fly when you irritate them.
 
 
If your problem is indeed thrips the spinosad will take care of them even if they aren't listed on the product.
 
AS for the pictures, there are thousands of species of thrips. Honestly your pictures do not seem like thrip, but since you are in AUS  and there are so many species it could be some sort of thrip.
 
If it were me I would spray with the spinosad now, and again in about 5-7 days. You obviously have an insect problem that is affecting your plants. 
 
Hope you kill the bas-turds
 
Gonna head out shortly to get a 1l bottle of the stuff. Can't use it today though its raining heavily outside.
 
Seems to be getting worse. Some older leaves are now curling. There is absolutely no sign of any leaf damage. If it was thrips or mites, surely some leaf damage would Be evident...

I stuck a ph probe into the soil. Getting some big variations from very acidic to very alkaline. Starting to wish I didn't put them outside.
 
how about on the underside of leaves? is there any bronzing or shiny stuff? 

it does not look like ph related. Ph imbalance (or being outside the optimum range of 5.5 - 6.5) will affect nutrient uptake and your plants don't look like they are lacking nutrients. 
 
Pac_Heat507 said:
how about on the underside of leaves? is there any bronzing or shiny stuff? 

it does not look like ph related. Ph imbalance (or being outside the optimum range of 5.5 - 6.5) will affect nutrient uptake and your plants don't look like they are lacking nutrients. 
Click to expand...
 
Yesterday I would have said no. I just went out there and flipped one of the older leaves(a couple of sets before newest growth) and found this. The whole vein structure is damaged. Its not random points, its bronze/brown all along the veins and almost all of them.
 
Could the plants be uptaking something harmful from the soil? Or is this definite sign of pests at work?
 




 
Doesn't look good... Those reflective patches I think are just the dried up pesticide.
 
Pac_Heat507 said:
almost sure its thrips. all the signs are there, just need to actually see them now to confirm.
Click to expand...
 
I'm gonna treat it as thrips. If it is, could they kill my plants?
 
I have thrips now.Leaf with them look different.Lots of black,silver,damaged leaf spots.
 
I guess its some other pest who eats your plants.Or its just beggining or other thrip type.
 
Hovever treat your plant with spinosad asap.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top