newbie here, would appreciate help

[Pam]

Pam,

I guess this is why I am newbie and you aren't. You've been there and done it with peppers and all did was grow seven plants in the garden. But if you don't mind, I would love to pick your brain.

hmm, yeah, with an ice pick, most like!

I'm a little confused by this. If the plants are taller, have larger leaves, absorb more sunlight and are generally stronger, why would they produce fewer peppers? Wouldn't more branches with more sprouts tend to produce more blooms?

Plants do require nitrogen. Nitrogen is not bad, and nitrogen requirements can vary over the life of a plant. Only when there is excess of nitrogen is there a problem. Actually if there is an excess of any of the nutrients that a plant requires for growth there can be a problem. However, with Miracle Grow and its many clones, the nitrogen is usually the issue.

Ok, anyone with more recent exposure to botany please correct me if I get this wrong. As I understand it, the problem is that in the presence of excess nitrogen, all or most of a plant's energy goes toward leaf and stem growth with very little energy put towards fruit development. The nitrogen stimulates the leaf and stem growth, and with no balance of phosphorus and potassium, you get reduced fruit or, in some cases, no flower and fruit production.

Again, I'm confused. I watered all my plants in the garden this year with a mix that included nitrogen and the peppers didn't seem to have any aphids at all. Yes, this fall/early winter, plants I was trying to grow were beset with those insects. However, those plants never saw a tad of nitrogen.

It's not an absolute, just a tendency. Plants that have been given very high nitrogen fertilizers have a tendency to attract aphids. And, too, remember that what might be too much nitrogen in my soil might be just right in yours. And, as I said, some nitrogen is good, it just needs to be in balance with the other nutrients, and in appropriate amounts for each stage of growth.

The other part of the problem, as I mentioned, is that in most of these potting soils that have fertilizer, the fertilizer is time released. Instead of getting a burst of nitrogen, the plants get a steady diet over three to six months of high nitrogen.

I'm a firm believer that nitrogen, used at the right times of the year, is a boon to growing any plants. I also agree that used at the wrong times, or too heavily, it can be as deadly as Round-Up.

I don't think we're in disagreement, just not communicating well on the specifics.

 

[sdw79]

ok, I have everything in place and ready to start. My question is how long should I leave them on the heating pad? It would not hurt them to stay on the pad even after they sprout would it??

 

[Pam]

ok, I have everything in place and ready to start. My question is how long should I leave them on the heating pad? It would not hurt them to stay on the pad even after they sprout would it??

I usually leave mine on heat until they go outside.

 

[Omri]

ok, I have everything in place and ready to start. My question is how long should I leave them on the heating pad? It would not hurt them to stay on the pad even after they sprout would it??

In theory that's actually the smart thing to do.
As young seedlings they are 'fragile', although you don't want it to be too hot when they're bearing fruit.

 

[sdw79]

Thank you again Pam, you have been very helpfull. I am going to try miracle grow seed starter with some and Ferry Morse seed starter mix with the other. They did not have the Nitro amount on the bag so I called them, they said they do not put any fertlizer in their mix so it so it should work ok. Would you recommend adding anything else to it??

 

[Pam]

Thank you again Pam, you have been very helpfull. I am going to try miracle grow seed starter with some and Ferry Morse seed starter mix with the other. They did not have the Nitro amount on the bag so I called them, they said they do not put any fertlizer in their mix so it so it should work ok. Would you recommend adding anything else to it??

Not at first. When the seedlings are on their second or third set of leaves is when I usually give some of the fish emulsion. Some of these folks like to use hydro solution fertilizers, but they'll have to explain how they do that.

 

[sdw79]

So how long should I use the seed starter mix? Until I transplant or could I keep them in the mix after transplanting? I have a 72 seed tray I could easily fill it up with all the seeds I have, bet the problem is if I plant all them seeds is when they have to be transplanted into something bigger I will have the room, but not the light, so I am probably going to plant way less seeds than I hoped.

 

[Pam]

So how long should I use the seed starter mix? Until I transplant or could I keep them in the mix after transplanting? I have a 72 seed tray I could easily fill it up with all the seeds I have, bet the problem is if I plant all them seeds is when they have to be transplanted into something bigger I will have the room, but not the light, so I am probably going to plant way less seeds than I hoped.

Ha, yeah, what to do with all those lovely seedlings can be a problem!

Usually when I transplant mine, they're going into the garden, so what to put them in isn't really an issue. The few that go into containers I put in cheap potting soil from Lowe's or Walmart, it's the stuff that's usually under $2 for a 40 pound bag. I mix in some coir fiber to lighten the soil and help with moisture retention, usually I can get the coir bricks at a local nursery. If I'm really lucky, I find a bag of high quality potting soil without any fertilizer; but that hasn't happened since my favorite organic nursery closed.

 

[POTAWIE]

So how long should I use the seed starter mix? Until I transplant or could I keep them in the mix after transplanting? I have a 72 seed tray I could easily fill it up with all the seeds I have, bet the problem is if I plant all them seeds is when they have to be transplanted into something bigger I will have the room, but not the light, so I am probably going to plant way less seeds than I hoped.

I run out of space quickly so I've learned to be super efficient. I use square pots to use up all available space.
I go from cells(72per tray) to small pots(18 per tray)*4 to larger pot(8per tray)*9 then on to round 2-3 gal pots
So 1 tray of 72 quickly becomes 4 trays of 18, then 9 trays of 8.

 

[GrumpyBear]

I start at the small pots that are 18 per tray but i initially have the dirt about halfway then when i get the first true leaves i fill it up to the seed leaves, from there i get a little creative depending on the plant (but until now its been all tomatoes and eggplant).
this year i have a whole tray just of peppers and i'm working on heresay for my plans (like someone told me inca berry's do really good in hanging planters so that's where they're going). generally tho i try and skip over a pot size per transplant b/c i have no problem with a little plant in a big pot and i find they don't appreciate the move very much (even if they appreciate the space).

 

[sdw79]

Should I water with tap water or distilled?? Does it matter?

 

[wordwiz]

I set a large garbage can under a downspout and collect rain water, then use it to water the plants.

Last summer, during the drought, I watered with city water a lot. It didn't hurt the plants, but they were hardly seedlings then.

Mike

 

[Pam]

Should I water with tap water or distilled?? Does it matter?

It doesn't matter. I water with tap water.

 

[Omri]

I get free mineral water, so only the best for my babies.

 

[cheezydemon]

Nice system Potowie. I looked at your gallery too. Remember that it is a ripe lime, not a lemon lol.

 

[loki]

Well, here's my method for raising my plants - and I sell them at a Farmer's market.

First friends have used Miricle Grow Seed mix with really good results - (may not have started the seeds in this mix).

I'm still trying to figure out the best starting mix.... I use Redi-earth from Sun-Gro (used to be Scotts), however I've had mixed results. It may be too acidic. They make other mixes that may work better. Also, I've heard that peat-based mixes are not the best. So I will look into it more.

Next - places to get these mixes - try looking up Nursery Suppliers. Here we have a business that gets all these mixes, trays, etc. in large quantities. There may be a place near you that delivers to a Nursery or Greenhouse (or University), etc. and you could place an order either with the Nursery Supplier or the Greenhouse and pick it up there. Much better than Lowes or Home Depot.

OK for the 'Method'

My method is based on my small area for seed raising - without having access to a heated greenhouse.

I have germinated seeds on wetted paper in a plastic petri dish (from Chem Supplies at my local University). I put the dishes in my gas oven with the pilot on (about 85 degrees fahrenheit).

This has been sort of successful for peppers (great for tomatoes and eggplants however). But it's very touchy and prone to mold. You have to be right there to get the plants out when they germinate too as they become leggy and difficult to transplant if left go for even a day or two. I've used sphagnum (not peat but dried moss), and vermiculite in the dishes too - with a little less mold, but still problematic. Tomatoes do very well this way!

So last year I switched to raising the seeds in growing mix. I get a tray/Flat - without cells - with holes in the bottom. I fill it with starter mix and put this in a tray/flat without holes in the bottom to hold water.

I wet the mix, and place the seeds in wide rows - with plenty of space between - even making a 'raised' hump between the rows so there will be no trouble telling varieties apart. Then I cover the seeds with about an 1/8 inch of mix, pat down and water from below. You can plant very close together in the rows as you will transplant these when very young. It is very important to mark the rows. Stakes work OK - but are notoriously easy to displace - also only pencil is permenent. Labeling using Sharpies and my other stand-by, grease pencils have completely disappeared under wet and UV conditions (there are new pro sharpies that may work better). So I mark the rows, and also make a map of the tray (notch one corner of the tray to orient the map).

Then I put this in my oven at 85. A growing mat may also work - but the soil surface must be very warm. Those plastic covers are not that great - they are very prone to mold - even here under low humidity. Saran wrap right on the surface works better. A food instant-read thermometer is excellent for taking temps at the surface. Keep things around 85. A little variability is OK and may be beneficial, especially if it is due to some sunlight. I have also soaked my seeds in a weak Potassium Nitrate (Saltpeter) solution (after the recommendations of the Pepper Gal). I'm not sure this actually helps. It is supposed to soften the seeds and prompt germination.

Germination is usually quite fast with this method.

After I see some growth, I move my trays to a heat mat bottomed (water bed heater) high intensity lighted area (shop lights). All is very low tech. I get cheap shop lights, keep them only a few inches off the surface - proped up on cans. I use heating pads (for back pain) too. But warning - I have found nearly burned plastic on these! You have to keep things warm and bright. But with these lights you can raise the plants anywhere in the house and aren't relying on windows (which are almost never bright enough early in the season). Grow lights are not worth the expense for this method. This is very successful.

I also have access to a sun room at a place where I conduct contract work. I have put my flats here too. It's not a greenhouse, but it does work pretty well. It's harder to monitor conditions though.

So then after things get larger I transplant into 6 packs. This is much more efficient than planting directly into 6 packs. I can take one of my trays of seedlings and produce 12 flats of 72 cells each! I usually get about 30 flats for selling at the market eventually.

By this time things have usually warmed up. So I can put these flats out into a cheap cold frame. I make the cold frame from Greenhouse plastic film (local nursery supply - or Peaceful Valley Farm Supply) over PVC hooped into Rebar pounded into the ground (not too deep). I affix the plastic with Rowcover Snap Clamps I get from PVFS. I have also used lights, and other peoples solariums for this stage. I have also contracted with a commecial greenhouse.

Then as things get even warmer I can start hardenening off the plants - with agrifabic at the ready to protect from late frosts.

Then I transplant them out into the garden.

 

[rainbowberry]

Since I have a bag of miracle grow soil. Could you mix it with some Jiffy starting seed soil?

I just used Miracle gro the first year I started growing chillis, OK not the best compost but I didn't have any problems.

 

[rainbowberry]

Should I water with tap water or distilled?? Does it matter?

I use tap water like Pam, but I did read somewhere that it's best to let it stand for 24 hours because of chlorine in the water supply. I'm too "all-over-the-place" to do that.

I get free mineral water, so only the best for my babies.

I didn't think it was a good idea to use mineral water for watering, maybe because of the mineral content, I don't know. Heard something like this on Galore once.

 

[POTAWIE]

Carbonated water is also good if you're willing to spend the $$. Distilled water is "dead water" meaning that there is no nutrients and this certainly isn't necessary. I'm not sure about mineral water but I would assume there might be high salt content as there is in soda water.

 

[GrumpyBear]

I use tap water like Pam, but I did read somewhere that it's best to let it stand for 24 hours because of chlorine in the water supply. I'm too "all-over-the-place" to do that.

my city uses so much chlorine in the tap water you can smell it and a friend of mine when i was younger was sensitive to chlorine (like she can't go in swimming pools that use it) and she would break out into a rash if she showered in a house without some water filter/softener thingy installed. so i let mine stand and i do notice a difference from back before i started this.