seeds Newbie...What's going on with my seedlings?

[Yani]

Same here Zoey. I'm also learning alongside through the issues you are having as well.

The dark green leaves are definitely a nitrogen abundance. I would just use water until the leaves straighten out a bit and lose the wrinkles/waves. Leaves curling up could be overwatering or low humidity I have a bit of that as well but just try less fertilizer and watering only when they dry out.

 

[Zoey]

My plants will be cared for by another person for the next two weeks, and I'm a little more than nervous to see what/what not has happened during my absence.
 
As suggested, I bought some light timers. My first purchase was wifi connected outlets, but I found out that the nursery is out of range, so that plan was nixed. I ended up buying some cheap push-button timers, and I'm sure they will do the job. I'll start with a 16 ON/ 8 OFF schedule and see how they like it.
 
I pre-mixed several gallons of very dilute nutrients for watering the hydro plants, and will have them use plain tap water for everything in soil. I also left detailed instructions about how to care for the plants (like I'm an expert or something LOL).
 
The humidity in the nursery is at 37%, which I'm assuming is a little drier than they would like?
 
I've noticed that the adult plant, the one I flushed the soil with water, has developed black/brown spots on leaves. From the article you shared with me, I'm thinking that this is one of the signs of over-watering, which makes sense being that the soil is still pretty wet.
 
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't nervous about leaving the plants in another person's hands, but what can you do? 

 

[Zoey]

 
Here's a look at that adult plant that I flushed the soil with water. As you can see, it has black spots, the leaves are wrinkled, it's dropping leaves, is yellowed....    However, are some new leaves growing, so it's not toast yet. Sure looks a fright though!
 
Any thoughts (aside from "Give the plant to someone who won't kill it!"?
 
Oh, and I also noticed some extremely tiny black bugs living exclusively under the leaves. Even under magnification, I couldn't identify them. I hosed all of the plants down with bug spray, and will undoubtedly have an infestation when I return from my trip (aphids). 

 

[Topsmoke]

its most likely fertilizer burn.  It could be ph, i really have no idea what you have them planted in could be straight peat which case its a ph issue but Id go with over fert, the growth is all weird and almost bloated looking.  flush and repot in a good soil mix.

 

[Zoey]

I checked the PH, and it's at 7.0. I think the majority of the soil is Miracle Grow.

 

[Yani]

It's definitely an overwatering issue/water retention issue the same thing happened to my plants last year.

 

[Zoey]

Well, time to let her dry out for a week and a half or maybe two. As Topsmoke suggested, I really need to replant all of the adult plants. I did a pretty piss poor job of mixing soils together, so there are areas in which the soil is soaked, and other areas that are bone dry. It'll have to be done when I return.

 

[Zoey]

Well, I just returned from a 16 day holiday in Indonesia. I had left detailed instructions for plant care to the person watching over our cats, and they did a fine job. I lost 3 of the seedlings, but I had expected that.
 

 
The adult plants seem do be doing slightly better. However, the aphid problem continues to plague a few of the plants. I had hosed all of the plants down with insecticidal spray before I left, and will do it again.
 

 
Here are the other two adult plants. Not great looking, but I'm hoping they will look better in a few months, at which time I can move them outside.
 

 
For the most part, all of the seedlings are doing great. All of them have roots coming through the holes in the bottom of the cups, and it's really getting to be time to move them to larger pots. The problem is that I've run out of room.
 

 
The hydro plants continue to outpace the soil planted plants. They too have outgrown the hydro planters, but as I said, room is an issue. The hydro plants have significantly more, and longer root system than the soil planted plants. I've been using 1/2 tsp/gallon of MaxiGrow to feed everything but the adult plants.
 
Looks like it's time to go buy some pots and soil in anticipation of outdoors acclimation. Once I move these outside, I'll probably start some new seedlings in the nursery. However, I will definitely reduce the number of plants overall.

 

[Zoey]

Just a few more photos and comments that I neglected to add in my last post.
 

 
As you can see, the adult plants continue to look unhappy. My soil moisture meter shows that the soil in the bottom of the container is "wet", but from the top to about half way down the container it shows "dry". Again, I really think I should consider replacing all of the soil in the planters with a homogeneous mix.
 

 
The adult plants are producing flowers, but they eventually fall off. The plants continue to drop a fair amount of leaves.
 

 
The seedlings are looking pretty good (or at least I think they are?). The leaves are an extremely dark green color, and most are starting to produce flower buds. I've been trimming some of the lower leaves off, but I'm not sure this is really necessary. Any thoughts?
 

 
One of the plants has produced a flower!
 
I've been using 1/2 tsp of MaxiGro to a gallon of water, and bottom feeding the seedlings about once a week. Do you think it's time to start upping the amount of fertilizer? Being that the leaves are so green, I'm thinking that I should keep it where it is, or maybe even cut back just a little?
 

 
Just look at the size difference between the hydro plant and one in soil. Both were started at the same time. As I understand it, the hydro solution should be changed out every-so-often. Anyone know how often this should be? I've only done it one time since planting.

 

[Yani]

Hey Zoey, glad to see some improvement. I've been pretty busy and have had little time to respond. I would say eliminate the fertilizer all together at this point and just use water. The leaves are so dark green and the leave are scrunched still indicating there is too much fertilizer present. The bud drop can also occur for a variety of reason, from my understanding, and too much nitrogen is certainly one. I don't know about repotting, it's your call. 
 
I had a catastrophic setback to my peppers. See if you can find my post about it. All my pepper plant's leaves turned yellow and fell off in a matter of two-three days and I was left with a bare stalk. Luckily when I put them outside I had some small leaves sprouting back out and they are now on their way to recovery although I've probably lost about 3 weeks of time with them, but oh well...just glad they'll survive. 
 
Keep us posted. 

 

[Zoey]

Wow, I just looked at the photos of your ill plants! How are they now, and did you ever determine what the issue was?
 
Actually, despite the poor appearance of the adult plants, I noticed a pepper growing on one of them. Crazy, and I can't believe it. I looked back at the General Hydro fertilization schedule, and it appears that they eliminate MaxiGro after the 5th week of the growing cycle.
 
I've been looking for a small fan to add to the nursery, but everything I've found blows too hard at low setting. Any suggestions for a fan?

 

[twiasp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKyoSS3bwjA
 
Sorry, I'm a plant growing newbie this year also, but this is what I thought of reading the posts =)

 

[Zoey]

Point taken.

 

[Zoey]

Just another update with a bunch of photos.
 

 
I keep thinking about what could be causing the problems with the adult plants. I've been watering them less, checking moisture more frequently, and not using nutrients. The aphids have been kept to a minimum. 
 
I know it's probably not terribly accurate, but my soil moisture meter has a pH check as well, so I checked the soil again. The soil in all three plants is registering around 8.5 to 9.0. Bingo! I wonder if this isn't the majority of the problem? I'm not sure why the pH changed from the last time I checked. The water pH has not changed. Now, I just have to figure out how to correct this.
 

 
Here's one of the sad little peppers growing on an adult plant. It's like it's a "last ditch" effort of the plant to produce offspring before it completely keels over dead.
 

 
Again, just showing the growth difference between soil and hydro growing.
 

 
However, all is not potpourri and unicorns with the hydro plants. Several of the leaves have started to do this. I'm thinking it's (once again) too much nutrients. I decided to dump out all of the hydro water, clean up the inside of the containers, and refill with fresh water. 
 

 
Early on, when I was thinking about trying hydro, I bought a small fish tank aerator. I thought "what the heck? Might as well add it". You can see the small bubblier attached to a clear hose in the bottom of the hydro container. I don't know it it will make a difference or not, but I can't imagine that it will hurt anything.
 

 
The root system in the single-plant hydro is out of control. I'm thinking that I either need a larger container (which I can't do right now because I don't have enough room), or that they need to be moved to soil. Does anyone have some advice for me about this? For those who might say to move them to soil, what is the best way to go about doing this?
 

 
I've even got some good root growth from the bottom of the cups. Again, I believe they are overdue to be moved to larger pots. Would you concur?
 

 
There are little flowers popping up on all of the small plants.
 

 
I picked up a cheap timer for the lights, which are now set to turn on for 19 hours a day. I know it's probably a little longer time than some people would suggest, but the nursery gets pretty cold when the lights are off.
 

 
And lastly, a parting shot so that you can see the growth progress. Maybe I need to consider selling some of the plants in order to make more room? This would allow me to get some of the plants into larger pots, which would then possibly result in a better overall yield this summer? Any thoughts about this?
 
Cheers

 

[SvtCobra]

Your overdoing everything. Too much water, light, nutrients. And I would also bet the house that your pH is off as well. You probably have a certain amount of nutrient lock out going on.

 

[Zoey]

Thanks Svt. I reset the light timers so they are turned on for 16 hours per day. I'll do a forum search for nutrient lockout.
 

 
I decided to go ahead and change the soil for one of the three adult plants. The soil in the bottom of the plant was pretty wet, but from about the mid-point up it was dry.
 

 
Being as gentle as I could, I removed a good portion of the old soil by hand. I would have done this by using the water hose method, but it's still far to cold in this neck of the woods to turn on an outside faucet. I can't say that I've ever seen root-rot before, but to my untrained eye, the roots look good.
 

 
I'm guessing that this is most likely not the best choice for soil, but around here, it's all that is available at this time of the year. My moisture/pH meter shows that this soil has a pH of 7.0. The Miracle Gro doesn't seem to hold moisture nearly as much as what I previously had the plant in.
 
I guess time will tell if this makes any difference or not.
 
Since I have an issue with being overzealous with watering, what do you think about letting the plants start to get a little "droopy" before watering? I did this with the last watering of the seedlings, and they bounced back very quickly (overnight). I've noticed that right before the plants start to get droopy, they will give you signs of impending dryness. The leaves start to get a little "soft" feeling to them just before they droop. 
 
I know that all of this is most likely grade-school material, but I do want to let everyone know that I truly appreciate the help. I probably should have tip-toed into growing peppers (just a couple of easy-to-grow plants) as opposed to belly flopping right into the riptide.  
 
 

 

[Zoey]

Three days after re-potting one of the adult plants, and this is what it looks like. On one hand, I think I should continue to take a watchful-waiting approach. But on the other, I feel I should just bin the plant to make room for the healthy seedlings. I don't know if the adult plants will do any better outside, but it will be another 2 months before I can do that.
 

 
One of the other adult plants, actually the *healthiest* looking of the three, has developed some white spots on the leaves. Throughout the winter I've periodically noticed tiny little black dots on the leaves, which you can see in the photo below (leaves in the upper part of the photo). They are too small to tell if they are bugs or not, and they wipe off easily. They aren't embedded in the leaves. Not sure what they are.
 

 
 
The basement is around 17ºC now, so I've opted to start the hardening off in situ by leaving the doors to the nursery open. I've also set up a fan to blow on the plants while the doors are open. Ideally, I would like two small 15cm fans blowing from both ends of the nursery, but I have yet to find anything decent in that size.
 
Cheers, and as always, I appreciate any and all opinions/thoughts/expertise.

 

[Tarzan]

Looks like mites to me.
 
The whitening of the leaves also occurred to me. Last year's plant which I saved is still alive and started putting out white leaves at first, but some of the larger shoots got darker green (still not completely uniform dark green colour tho) and I pruned the rest. Both saved plants are growing, but not as healthy as the new seedlings.

 

[Zoey]

Thanks for the reply Tarzan. I looked up mites, and they appear to be another one of those critters that are hard to dispose of.
From what I've read, the current pesticide I'm using is as effective as anything else, but I need to use it more frequently than I have been.

 

[SentencedToBurn]

The first pic definitely looks like broad mites.
 
I spent good 6 months battling those bastards this summer, lost 1/3rd of all my plants, tried a whole bunch of sprays and various "organic" hoohaa but nothing worked. Then I found a method and it worked 100% (for me anyway). Also a couple of my mates had the same problem and they got rid of broad mites the same way.
 
How: Get some lime sulphur, the directions will tell you to mix it up with water with the ratio of 1 to 20, 1 to 30 or even 1 to 50. Instead mix it up with ratio of 1:5. Spray your entire plant in it, all over, make sure to get under the leaves, etc. Then repeat in 3 days, and then in another 3 days.
 
The downside: such high concentration of lime sulphur will stain your leaves, they'll have grey spots on them from where they got burnt by this stuff. Any pods will also stain a bit although in my case most pods came right after a few weeks. The leaves never got better although they kept growing afterwards. So it only makes your existing leaves look a bit rough. Also that lime sulphur stinks, itll smell pretty bad for about 2 days and then the smell seems to dissapear.
 
The upside: the mites will be gone, as long as you've completely soaked all your plants, the stem, etc, they'll be gone. You'll notice new growth within days of the first spray, but its critical you spray it again twice. One of my mates stopped after the first spray and although his plants recovered, some mites didnt die and 1 month later he had another infestation and had to repeat the process.
 
 
The 2nd pic I have no idea sorry.