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NPK ratio?
- Thread starter Josh
- Start date
20-20-20 is two times as strong as 10-10-10 and 20 times as strong as 1-1-1, the question still remains: is that the right ratio for Chili peppers?nzchili said:
I agree with you and you are correct
Many of my fav ferts follow that ratio (nitrosol)
My only point was that something like 20-20-20 may not really be as strong as it seems at face value
Tomato growers often use things like 5-10-38,, a bit more phosphorus but a looot of potassium.
Eireann said:
you miss my point.
my point is the instructions on the 1.1.1 probably tell you to add 20 x the mix ratio as opposed to 20.20.20 so they are in essence the same and the 20-20-20 may not be as strong as face value suggests, as it would be watered down to a greater ratio.
for example if a 1.1.1 fert tells you to add 5ml per Litre of water, and the 5-5-5 tell you to add 1ml per litre of water, then they end up being the exact same thing.
I do not believe 1.1.1. or 10.10.10 (or any even number) NPK ratio is right for peppers.
Eireann said:
Tomatoes do not NEED that kind of ratio. The 3-1-2 guideline is what I try to grow everything at. The idea that you need grossly disproportional amounts of P and K, is great for selling add-on fertilizer products, but pretty much total bullshit, other than that.
The ONLY way that I could ever see having such out of whack numbers, is if your grow media is doing something that needs to be compensated for. But 5-10-38 is ridiculous.
You can grow peppers with a 3-1-2 fertilizer, and end up with more flowers than leaves. In other words, bloom not necessary.
Don't take my word for it. Put it to the test. I have been growing out a new cultivar, and have been using a popular 3-1-2 grow formula. NOT the bloom. No problem getting roots, foliage, or fruit.
Balanced ferts work, but are wasteful. If you get them cheap, well, what can I say... Stick with a strength of 5-5-5 or less. Just remember that whatever the plant doesn't use, becomes available for other things. Salt build-ups, algae/fungal growth, runoff, etc, etc, etc.
There is a practice among canna growers in the Caribbean in which they dig down to about 3-4 feet and place a fish in the bottom of the hole. then replace the soil and plant the seed. The concept is the plant will root down to find the nutrients it needs, by the time the roots reach it the fish will be fully decomposed and the nutrients become available. I think the key to potted plants is to keep an eye on the leave set. if the starting soil is correct, it shouldn't need any additional nutrients until the 6-8 leave set. The leaves usually tell you how the plant is progressing. Hope this helps. Cheers!
Jase4224 said:
When I lived in my former residence, where I was fortunate enough to have good soil, all that I ever did, was put organic matter down every year, and then I'd bury fish in each hole with my tomatoes and peppers, about 6" below the root ball. Never fertilized other than that, and always had a bounty.
Now, I have sand for soil, and that trick just doesn't work, at all.
Blister said:
Balanced fertilizers are recommended for pretty much everything, on the assumption that people don't really know how to grow. It eliminates thinking, or troubleshooting. (as in the case where your media may be locking something up, or may already contain something else)
solid7 said:
How often do you apply your 3-1-2 fertilizer? Weekly? And how long do you keep fertilizing? The entire growing season? I struggled last year with fertilizing, I used a 10-10-10 liquid fertilizer on a weekly basis 3 weeks after plant out and ended up burning my plants. Wanna prevent that this year.
When we fished a lot we used to bury leftover freezer burnt fish from the previous year. All waste from cleaning the fish also went into compost. It worked very well.
As a matter of fact i cleaned out the freezer a week or two ago and all the freezer burnt fish went into the small ground plot. Critters got some of it.
As a matter of fact i cleaned out the freezer a week or two ago and all the freezer burnt fish went into the small ground plot. Critters got some of it.
That works, but it's farm more effective if you make a fermented fertilizer out of it. If you've got more than 2 whole fish - or the equivalent, thereof - you can make a damn fine fertilizer.ShowMeDaSauce said:
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Last fall, when Hurricane Matthew hit our area, I cleaned out all of my fish, bait, chum, etc, and put it in a 5 gallon bucket. To that, I added a lactobacillus culture that I made, by washing rice, letting the ricewash sit in a jar for 3 days, until it settled out. I took the middle "layer" of the ricewash, and added it to some sour milk, at a rate of about 10 parts milk to 1 part ricewash. When the milk settled out into "curds and whey", I siphoned off the liquid, and threw the curd into the compost for the worms. Then, I added the liquid that I just siphoned, along with a 10lb bag of sugar, to the 5 gallon bucket. (which was almost plumb full of fish) Then, I ran a plastic tube out of the tightly sealed lid - not in the liquid - and the other end of the tube, I partially rolled, and put it into a quart mason jar, full of water. This was a makeshift airlock. I put this thing in my shed, and when it stopped stinking, I strained out all the bones and scales, and what was left, was pure gold. Add a bottle of molasses for some trace and calcium, and it's a damn fine fertilizer. With just a little work, you get a huge extension of the usefulness of the fish.
Powelly said:
Interesting. So mulch and mung beans are enough to keep your plants happy the entire growing season? What kind of soil do you use? And how does growing with mung beans and clover work exactly? You let them grow out for a bit and then cut them down? Don't the mung beans and clover take nitrogen from the soil to grow?
would be interested to hear more about the potential benefits of the clover..Powelly said:
I often have it growing in my pots. I usually leave it for quite awhile till I get the willpower to pull it all out.
If its beneficial in some way i could be even lazier and not pull it out. Im all for doing less.
NTR said:
Cover crops are to be planted in the off season, when your main plants are not yet planted out. Yes, they do, at first, take resources - but the "fixation" part comes from the nodes on the roots, which hold free nitrogen, and release it, after the plant has been cut down. The plant, when cut, is useful for mulch above ground level, and provides multiple macro and micro nutrients. This type of growing doesn't work well for heavy feeder crops. (like tomatoes and peppers) It is great for supplemental and reserve nutrition, but you still need to continuously add either a top dressing, or other amendments. (which is, in essence, fertilizing)
nzchili said:
It's not just any old clover or oxalis. It is specific types of clover. Red and White Clover are the 2 main types used. However, as a cover, I find alfalfa to be the superior cover crop. Both as a nitrogen fixer, and later, as a mulch.
nzchili said:
NTR said:
I'll make a new thread about this at some point. I lack experience with it though so I don't want to post everything yet as I don't want to be misleading and want to try different things on different plants for a while. But to answer these questions and expand a bit I'll post information that I know and point out what I don't know
Clover - Usually white or red. It's nitrogen fixing. Legumes are also nitrogen fixing including mung beans. Bacteria in the roots take nitrogen out of the air and put it in the soil for use. Allowing nitrogen fixing plants to seed results in a net loss of nitrogen so trim them before this happens. Use the trimmings as mulch
Soil - Soil is something that needs to be developed over a long period of time. Lava rocks, compost and coco coir in equal ratios makes an awesome starter mix but premium potting mix with compost mix in works fine. Peat moss is great instead of coco (better) but I think it's bad for the environment so I don't do it. Perlite is good instead of rocks but apparently over time it breaks down and causes a layer at the bottom of the pot.
Use of cover crops - Stops evaporation, adds root systems which later die and break down supplying drainage and further nutrients over time
Legumes - When ground up and watered in, they will supply nutrients to the soil. Just google "mung bean nutrition" or any other legume to see
Thank you both for your input. I currently do use compost in my potting mixes but I have found that it's not enough to keep my plants fed all season long, so I need to use additional liquid fertilizer. I went a little overboard with the additional feeding last season, so I am going feed them much lower quantities this season. I am going to do some searching into cover crops. Coming fall I am going to try it with some of my pots, see if it makes a difference.