I used to belive 3-1-2 until i did side by side grows of tomatoes and pepper. 12 peppers and 12 tomatoes got foliage pro(very expensive here) other 12 got gh maxibloom. Gh maxibloom plants destroyed the foliage pro. Did the same test from start to finish with just peppers and will never switch back to a 3-1-2.solid7 said:
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NPK ratio?
- Thread starter Josh
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Swartmamba said:
Can you post specifics of your experiment, start to finish? Everything from your planting media, and lighting, right down to your feeding schedule? It would be really great to have the data, and you'd be doing a service to other growers.
Specifically, did you use the nutrients in a traditional hydro setup, or a soilless/soil mix?
Powelly said:
3-1-2 is a ratio, reduced to its lowest terms. What you choose to dilute it to, may or may not be more or less than those numbers. No need to get into a debate over organic vs. conventional methods.
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By the way, Maxibloom GH is something like 5-15-14. I don't even want to get into any debates about Dyna-Gro vs GH, because this is the "Ford vs Chevy" disagreement amongst weed growers. It's all over those boards, and each one has just as many loyal adherents. Nope, not gonna go there... I just want to see that somebody has actually done the experiment.
The MaxiGro 10-5-14 used at half the recommended amount looks more interesting from a cost perspective. Both have close to the same amounts of calcium and magnesium.
There are a hell of a lot of teaspoons in a 2kg bag and at around $15 thats not too bad.
There are a hell of a lot of teaspoons in a 2kg bag and at around $15 thats not too bad.
solid7 said:
5-2.5-7 is higher in nitrogen than 3-1-2 right?
CNS17 Grow is 3-1-2 in the recommended amount per gallon correct?
No, it's not... It's actually closer to a 2-1-3.ShowMeDaSauce said:5-2.5-7 is higher in nitrogen than 3-1-2 right?
CNS17 Grow is 3-1-2 in the recommended amount per gallon correct?
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I have never math-ed it out, so I can't be sure. I don't always follow the recommended dosing, anyway. For me, I consider 1 Tbsp per gallon to be "full strength", but that's not what the package says. It's just what I've used, based on experimentation.
How is a half dose of 10-5-14 equal 2-1-3? I understand the ratio. Im talking just about nitrogen content in a half dose of the Maxigro.
GH Maxigro says to use 2 tsp for full strength in soil. Much less if using hydro.
http://gh.growgh.com/docs/LABELS/maxigro.pdf
CNS17 Grow but its rather vague on how much to use for soil to achieve these numbers. It just says 10ml per gallon for a general plant food in soil. Amounts for hydro are much higher. (17-20ml) which is a little over a tbs per gallon.
Total Nitrogen (N): 3.0%, 0.14% Ammoniacal Nitrogen, 2.86% Nitrate Nitrogen
Trying to figure out how my math is wrong.
GH Maxigro says to use 2 tsp for full strength in soil. Much less if using hydro.
http://gh.growgh.com/docs/LABELS/maxigro.pdf
CNS17 Grow but its rather vague on how much to use for soil to achieve these numbers. It just says 10ml per gallon for a general plant food in soil. Amounts for hydro are much higher. (17-20ml) which is a little over a tbs per gallon.
Total Nitrogen (N): 3.0%, 0.14% Ammoniacal Nitrogen, 2.86% Nitrate Nitrogen
- Available Phosphate (P2O5): 1.0%
- Soluble Potash (K2O): 2.0%
- Calcium (Ca): 3.6%
- Magnesium (Mg): 0.5%, 0.5% Water Soluble Magnesium (Mg)
- Manganese (Mn): 0.05%, 0.05% Water Soluble Manganese (Mn)
- Molybdenum (Mo): 0.0005%
Trying to figure out how my math is wrong.
Come on, man... I said that if you reduce the ratio to its lowest terms, you get SOMETHING CLOSER TO a 2-1-3 ratio. There is no need to have a debate over this, I'm just stating a fact. I said absolutely nothing about half dosing anything. In fact, if I'm guilty of anything, it's not being specific that I'm talking about dosing CNS17, not anything else. So, to be clear... I use CNS17 Grow - WHEN I have used it - at a maximum rate of 1 Tbsp per gallon.ShowMeDaSauce said:
Not to be difficult, but why would you be so concerned with what quantity achieves the listed ratio in a 1:1 dosing? What does that actually benefit? The idea behind a fertilizer is supposed to be to supply a plant with the proper ratio of nutrients that a plant can use. The feed sheets already tell you how to dose it for each stage of the plant. So please help me to understand. Knowing full well that the dosing has been done for you, and that the concentration changes as the plant gets bigger... (and it's different, depending on how fast your plant grows in your conditions)ShowMeDaSauce said:
I'm not being rude with you. It's just that the entire feeding schedule is laid out right here: (if you're inclined to actually follow such things)
http://www.botanicare.com/Assets/PDFs/CNS17FeedSheet.pdf
Caveat - it has the entire product line listed, which I do not use. But, the concentrations for each formula in Tbsp/gal are the same. The numbers for one equal the number for the others.
It sure is if im using hydroponics and probably close enough if using coco in pots. I will need to give them a call Monday and see what the guarantied analysis is based on.
My entire point about the Maxigro is its more economical to get close to the same % of nutrients per gallon of fertilizer.
ShowMeDaSauce said:
Do you have to add anything else to the Maxigro, or is it a season-long standalone fertilizer? (i.e., Cal-Mag, iron, etc)
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I would never try to discourage anyone from growing in the most economical manner to suit their own needs, so if you feel that it is a lower cost, that's really not a subject for debate. From my own experience, I recommend the product that I do, because it's a stupid easy solution for anyone from beginners, to commercial growers.
They claim its a stand alone product but suggest switching to MaxiBloom later. The "hydro" forums suggest just using the Maxibloom the entire time but i doubt peppers are the main focus of what is being grown.
http://generalhydroponics.com/maxiseries/
A somewhat detailed list of nutrients are on the first pdf i posted.
Botanicare recommends adding CalMag Plus to the CNS17 Grow if using coco. Im betting gypsum will be just fine for additional calcium. The GH products have about the same amount of calcium or a little bit higher if you mix it up full strength. GH recommends a different product all together for coco.
I really haven't spent a huge amount of time doing a in depth comparison of beneficial trace elements. This year i will just stick with the CNS17 and a little worm casting on the 2 test pots of coco. Im using a weak solution on some seedlings too.
http://generalhydroponics.com/maxiseries/
A somewhat detailed list of nutrients are on the first pdf i posted.
Botanicare recommends adding CalMag Plus to the CNS17 Grow if using coco. Im betting gypsum will be just fine for additional calcium. The GH products have about the same amount of calcium or a little bit higher if you mix it up full strength. GH recommends a different product all together for coco.
I really haven't spent a huge amount of time doing a in depth comparison of beneficial trace elements. This year i will just stick with the CNS17 and a little worm casting on the 2 test pots of coco. Im using a weak solution on some seedlings too.
ShowMeDaSauce said:They claim its a stand alone product but suggest switching to MaxiBloom later. The "hydro" forums suggest just using the Maxibloom the entire time but i doubt peppers are the main focus of what is being grown.
http://generalhydroponics.com/maxiseries/
A somewhat detailed list of nutrients are on the first pdf i posted.
Botanicare recommends adding CalMag Plus to the CNS17 Grow if using coco. Im betting gypsum will be just fine for additional calcium. The GH products have about the same amount of calcium or a little bit higher if you mix it up full strength. GH recommends a different product all together for coco.
I really haven't spent a huge amount of time doing a in depth comparison of beneficial trace elements. This year i will just stick with the CNS17 and a little worm casting on the 2 test pots of coco. Im using a weak solution on some seedlings too.
Look, I don't want to be too rough here, but companies make a lot of money on these products, simply because people think they need them. I really can't speak for anyone else on this forum, but my personal opinion is that nutrients are just about the EASIEST thing in the whole pepper growing process, to get right. Putting together a good container mix, relying on the weather, battling pests - these are the difficult issues.
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I've grown in coco coir for 3 full seasons now. That doesn't make me an expert, it just allows me to relate my experience. For me, I won't waste a single penny trying to "phase" a pepper plant. For one thing, I have no control over the weather, growing outdoors, and that's the biggest single problem that I have.
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Regarding Cal-Mag - Yes, I can imagine that they do recommend it, since they do make it, and most growers "have always done it that way". Dig deep, and you'll find some of those "other" growers who do just fine, keeping it as simple as possible. I started learning from "other" growers. Some of them talked a great game, but spent way too much time, energy, and money, trying to grow the ultimate of ultimates, while some other ingoramus grew a beast of a plant with barely a season's worth of learning.
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Pure coco that's being pushed to the limits of growing - by way of environmental manipulation - i.e., a grow tent, humidity, CO2, etc - may need supplemental calcium, and it may not. But none of the plants that I grew under the sun with CNS17 Grow ever required bloom or Cal-Mag. They started and finished strong.
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Again, I have to say, please post whatever you end up doing. It would be interesting to observe regional differences, at the very least. I think you are going to do great with the coco and worm castings.
Medium was 5-1-1 mix with added turface. Nutrients were used at quarter strength every watering from 4 sets of true leaves and 1/2 strength from about 6 weeks in. All peppers in 3 gallon fabric all tomatoes in 10 gallon fabric. All same varieties and same starting size. Its all just my personal experience, but it was a considerable difference in both peppers and tomatoes. Worth testing ones selfsolid7 said:
NPK ratio?
i'm not an expert in using chemical fertilizer but i have a lot of experience with it. here is what i did in the past for both pepper and tomato plant.
first 4-5 weeks
N > K > Ca > P > Mg
after that
K > N > Ca > P > Mg
during flowering and fruit set, there will be very high demand in both K and N.
now i stop using all these chemical fertilizer to produce food anymore.
i'm not an expert in using chemical fertilizer but i have a lot of experience with it. here is what i did in the past for both pepper and tomato plant.
first 4-5 weeks
N > K > Ca > P > Mg
after that
K > N > Ca > P > Mg
during flowering and fruit set, there will be very high demand in both K and N.
now i stop using all these chemical fertilizer to produce food anymore.
Powelly said:
Peppers do not uptake nutrients in this ratio
Peppers will use a vastly greater amount of potassium than any other nutrient
That's just a chart, with no context defined.
If I were to believe what I see there, then every plant in my garden should be functionally deficient, and incapable of bearing fruit.
In the past ive used 3-1-2 "ratio" BUT i also used heavy amounts of good compost and still do mostly. Cheap ass MiracleGrow All Purpose is 3-1-2 but really high in nitrogen if mixed full strength. (24-8-16) I would normally supplement it with other inexpensive products such as lime, gypsum and Epsom salts ect.
The Alaska fish and kelp im trying this year is 4-6-6 plus about 7% calcium and some worm casting added too. This sounds like a interesting mix for my ground plot and my first attempt at organic (more or less).
The Alaska fish and kelp im trying this year is 4-6-6 plus about 7% calcium and some worm casting added too. This sounds like a interesting mix for my ground plot and my first attempt at organic (more or less).