Once you get Thrips... is it too late?

[zumajoe]

Over the past few weeks I slowly moved my little plants outside (still in the small 4" pots) and are now fulltime on the balcony.  They seemed to love it, aside from some issues with new growth.  The new leaves have appeared halfway mangled with tiny dark spots, and almost like some of the leaves were pinched on both sides which remain stunted as the leaf grows.  

I associated this with a Calcium Deficiency, as photos on the net looked similar with the curling and i've been hitting them up with CalMg+.

During this time, there have been these pesky tiny bugs which I would be killing by hand on each plant - annoying as hell and they have a stupid little attitude I've noticed.. but overall I figured it was no big deal and that the strange leaves were probably just associated with the plants just going through a "growing pain", and to just leave it alone - the common advice here.

Well I just found out today these things are Thrips.  Went ahead and ordered some "Don't Bug Me" (Pyrethrum) bug spray as I heard this does a great job on them.  Figured it shouldn't be too hard to eradicate since it's not like a huge infestation.

However, I just read a thread here that seems to state these Thrips carry disease and I might as well just get rid of any peppers that have the bugs?  I'm pretty sure all of them I've seen these bugs on each of my 15 plants... the thought of having to start all over again just devastates me... is it true?  

 

[MeatHead1313]

It's not guaranteed that thrips will carry disease, only a possibility. Same with aphids. I had both on some indoor plants starts this year and have had no problem with disease at all.
Also, if you're going outside with your plants and have any beneficial bugs around, the pyrethrum spray will kill them too.

 

[zumajoe]

It's not guaranteed that thrips will carry disease, only a possibility. Same with aphids. I had both on some indoor plants starts this year and have had no problem with disease at all.
Also, if you're going outside with your plants and have any beneficial bugs around, the pyrethrum spray will kill them too.

Thanks Meathead, makes me feel a bit better.  Would you say i'd probably notice it by now if there were a disease?  It's been a few weeks at least that i've noticed them here and there.

 

[MeatHead1313]

Thanks Meathead, makes me feel a bit better.  Would you say i'd probably notice it by now if there were a disease?  It's been a few weeks at least that i've noticed them here and there.

I'll leave that up to far more educated growers than myself. I'm only on my 3rd year growing, and this was the first time I've had thrips. Had aphids every year at stages though and nothing yet, but I'd imagine so.

 

[Lovepeppers]

Bro your plant does not have a viral disease from thrips! If it did, your leaves would be crinkly, mosaic patterns, leaf canoing, lots of defoliation, and spread to all of your plants within proximity.

Viral infections resemble eroiphid mite damage.
I used some spinosad on Sunday and again last night to knock back some thrips and leaf hoppers. Every time I use it I don't find any pests around,
It does have a short half life. I am using it until the lacewings and lady beetles establish themselves.

 

[zumajoe]

Bro your plant does not have a viral disease from thrips! If it did, your leaves would be crinkly, mosaic patterns, leaf canoing, lots of defoliation, and spread to all of your plants within proximity.

Viral infections resemble eroiphid mite damage.
I used some spinosad on Sunday and again last night to knock back some thrips and leaf hoppers. Every time I use it I don't find any pests around,
It does have a short half life. I am using it until the lacewings and lady beetles establish themselves.

 
 
Ok right on.  I was worried that it was an automatic thing - that all Thrips carried disease and that the plants were already infected without showing symptoms yet.  

Since i'm about to up-pot them into their final 5-gallon homes, should I be concerned with eggs in the existing soil that might get carried over?  

 

[Lovepeppers]

There's always a concern of there being pests eggs or re entry another time. What are you using to kill the pests?
Whatever is working, reapply in 3- 7 days to kill the newly hatched nymphs.

 

[zumajoe]

There's always a concern of there being pests eggs or re entry another time. What are you using to kill the pests?
Whatever is working, reapply in 3- 7 days to kill the newly hatched nymphs.

 
Currently using my bare hands... haha. These guys are pretty smart and run quick!  But I do have some Pyrethrin spray which should be here by tomorrow, so hopefully the spray should eradicate any that I can't see. 
 
Hopefully I will start getting normal leaves again, it seems that just a few "bites" from these little a-holes really destroys growth. 
 
Would be nice to get some ladybugs on there to future-proof, but I have no idea if they will stick around especially that my plants are still small.

 

[mrgrowguy]

Damn thrips!!!!
 
What i funny is I had two pests in my garage for a while, gnats and thrips. I tried everything and they just kept popping up. And at the risk of flaming, I used a bug bomb. I was really going for the gnats, but I noticed that the thrips were VERY sensitive to the bug bombing and even though a few gnats made it through, those thrips are NOWHERE to be found.
 
Of course, this would not work outside. Just thought I would add my experience.
 
And yes, those thrips move FAST and hide very well in the new foliage. Spinosad and neem only worked to knock populations down, they did not get rid of my problems. The bug bomb (the kind that does NOT leave a residue) worked very well for me. I grow in my garage, so this may not be possible for the OP, but it worked.

 

[zumajoe]

Damn thrips!!!!
 
What i funny is I had two pests in my garage for a while, gnats and thrips. I tried everything and they just kept popping up. And at the risk of flaming, I used a bug bomb. I was really going for the gnats, but I noticed that the thrips were VERY sensitive to the bug bombing and even though a few gnats made it through, those thrips are NOWHERE to be found.
 
Of course, this would not work outside. Just thought I would add my experience.
 
And yes, those thrips move FAST and hide very well in the new foliage. Spinosad and neem only worked to knock populations down, they did not get rid of my problems. The bug bomb (the kind that does NOT leave a residue) worked very well for me. I grow in my garage, so this may not be possible for the OP, but it worked.

 
 
haha well my plants are outdoorsmen... so this wouldn't work for me.  Hopefully the Pyrethrin spray arriving today will do it's thing.  Since you are in OC, i'm sure we get the same exact species of Thrips.  (Apparently there are about 5,000 different types - and apparently some are actually good believe it or not).  

 

[Lovepeppers]

Update us how the pyrethrin works. I'm in the I.E., not far from oc. I had some thrips and the captain jacks spinosad did good, but I had to respray days later.i do get a bunch of leaf hoppers up here too. The spinosad is keeping them knocked back too.

 

[zumajoe]

Update us how the pyrethrin works. I'm in the I.E., not far from oc. I had some thrips and the captain jacks spinosad did good, but I had to respray days later.i do get a bunch of leaf hoppers up here too. The spinosad is keeping them knocked back too.

Ok, so the Pyrethrin spray came in, ran some initial tests on some random ants in the yard - wow, pretty potent stuff for being a natural plant extract!  Completely attacks their nervous system and they are finished within 30 seconds.  

Using on the plants, there were a few visible Thrips to try this out on. The first Thrip was pretty large sized, and seemed to be pretty annoyed with the spray flipping out for a minute, but miraculously seemed to recover and continued to run about.  I needed to spray him again, which he again freaked out and eventually did this crazy leap / flick of his body and disappeared off the plant - i assume he died. I felt maybe the spray wasn't going to be as effective as hoped - but found another Thrip, sprayed it and this time died almost instantaneously.  
 
At this point I wanted to be sure every plant was thoroughly soaked within all new growth to destroy any remaining Thrip.   This is where I believe to have made a mistake - the bottle specifically states:  "Do not wet plants to the point of run-off or drip." By overspraying some of my plants new leaves, I think it fried them, some which are just stained but others (especially the very young growth) are completely destroyed.  I noticed on a Marijuana forum that Pyrethrin can cause brown stains - so i'm assuming it can happen when too much is sprayed.

Funny, because it seems to have mostly effected the Aji Limon:

 

 

[Lovepeppers]

Cool. Lately I been picking lacewing eggs off of my orange tree and using a paper lip to fasten if to a lower leaf of an old leaf. I must have 2 lacewings per plant and 5 praying mantis at L-2 or L-3 stage.
I think I'm just going to order 1000 lacewings every 2 weeks. They really clean sh$t up quick.
I'm just tired of spraying the spinosad so much.

 

[mrgrowguy]

When I spray my plants, I like to soak them with the insecticide thoroughly. I wait for 5 minutes, then I wash the top side of the leaves off with non-chlorinated water with just a tsp of H2O2 in a 1L sprayer. I try to get as much of the excess insecticide off as possible (focusing on the newest growth). I have never had a problem with brown spots or wilting after spraying for bugs ever since.

 

[zumajoe]

When I spray my plants, I like to soak them with the insecticide thoroughly. I wait for 5 minutes, then I wash the top side of the leaves off with non-chlorinated water with just a tsp of H2O2 in a 1L sprayer. I try to get as much of the excess insecticide off as possible (focusing on the newest growth). I have never had a problem with brown spots or wilting after spraying for bugs ever since.

Ahhh this makes sense... considering the spray kills the bugs on contact, so there is no reason to leave remaining liquid after a few minutes. Do you think the completely fried growth will make a comeback? Would it be any benefit to cut those off?

 

[mrgrowguy]

leaves that have been hurt almost never come back, but the loss of one leaf usually leads to the growth of two more in its place, (LIKE HYRDA!! - for the S.H.I.E.L.D. fans) (not an exact science, just saying).
 
For me, I only remove leaves that are <50% usable for the plant. If it is just a spot, I would leave it. Eventually that spot will dry up and there will likely be a hole in the leaf, but the other 80% of the leaf is still good and producing sugars. Best part is, the dead spots on the leaves may not be producing sugars for the plant, but the roots also do not need to support the missing spots/mass anyways. What I mean by that is if you grow indoors like I do, sometimes the bottom leaves get nearly no light at all. This is a [minor] problem since the roots are supporting leaves that are not pulling their weight so-to-speak. So removing those leaves would be wise in specific situations/environments.
 
For the leaves which just have some spots, it is entirely up to you to remove or not. The plant will continue to grow with or without them, and you have plenty of viable leaves still on the plant, so it shouldn't be much of a set back, maybe a week or two of the grow season lost to recover.
 
HOWEVER, if the spots are a result of or a possible cause of disease, remove them without hesitation. (watch for spreading)
 
OH, another possible factor for your predicament, some sprays require lights off for a certain time as they react with light and can cause harm that way. I wish I could remember an example, but as a general practice I only spray indoors (garage) or in shade and let them dry before lights turn on again. Fans help.

 

[zumajoe]

leaves that have been hurt almost never come back, but the loss of one leaf usually leads to the growth of two more in its place, (LIKE HYRDA!! - for the S.H.I.E.L.D. fans) (not an exact science, just saying).
 
For me, I only remove leaves that are <50% usable for the plant. If it is just a spot, I would leave it. Eventually that spot will dry up and there will likely be a hole in the leaf, but the other 80% of the leaf is still good and producing sugars. Best part is, the dead spots on the leaves may not be producing sugars for the plant, but the roots also do not need to support the missing spots/mass anyways. What I mean by that is if you grow indoors like I do, sometimes the bottom leaves get nearly no light at all. This is a [minor] problem since the roots are supporting leaves that are not pulling their weight so-to-speak. So removing those leaves would be wise in specific situations/environments.
 
For the leaves which just have some spots, it is entirely up to you to remove or not. The plant will continue to grow with or without them, and you have plenty of viable leaves still on the plant, so it shouldn't be much of a set back, maybe a week or two of the grow season lost to recover.
 
HOWEVER, if the spots are a result of or a possible cause of disease, remove them without hesitation. (watch for spreading)
 
OH, another possible factor for your predicament, some sprays require lights off for a certain time as they react with light and can cause harm that way. I wish I could remember an example, but as a general practice I only spray indoors (garage) or in shade and let them dry before lights turn on again. Fans help.

 
 
Right on!  Appreciate the added knowledge, as a first-time grower I don't know what I'd do without this forum.. (probably not be succeeding at pepper growing).  

How nice is this weather right now? I recently moved the plants permanently outdoors (yes, hardened them), and luckily June Gloom just kicked in and is saving my A$$ - my plants were all rootbound in their 4" black containers and I left them in too much direct sun last week and kinda scorched them. So now they are loving this hazy on/off sun + cool ocean breeze in addition to up potting them into their 5-gallon pots the other day.  Seems like the leaves are making a recovery as they got leathery and a bit yellow.  

Leaves aren't as perfect anymore since moving outside, but I like to think of them as "Battle Tested" scars and all.    

 

 

[mrgrowguy]

Awesome job!

 

[suchen]

Looking good! I do sometimes miss the perfect beauty of the big, deep green indoor leaves. Then I remember that pods won't form for me until they go outside and get ugly with holes and wrinkles, bumps and bruises

 

[zumajoe]

Ok- so as of today, big finding.  

While sitting outside hanging with the plants, I noticed a bug fly onto the screen of my phone. Just so happens to be... a THRIP.  I couldn't believe it.  This led me to realize there must be a large infestation of them nearby.  Hearing that they love flowers.. decided to take a look at this big flower tree I have in my yard to see if I noticed anything right away.  Low and behold... within 3 flowers I found a thrip running around having a party.  

I'm gonna guess that this is where my problem stems from... I don't really have any other choice but to have my peppers in this area due to sunlight. I'm guessing i'll just be doomed to spraying every other day or so.. Any suggestions?  Sticky Strips?

See the tree in the background:

This seems tempting...
 
"Minute Pirate Bug" kills thrips..
http://www.arbico-organics.com/product/2296/pest-solver-guide-thrips?kpid=1117001&gclid=CKu965PhsMUCFZRffgodwjkAfA