Hmmm, it makes no sense to me to say, "OP VS Hybrid." That's because we can get hybrids in OP.
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Open Pollinated - Do you know what it means?
- Thread starter AlabamaJack
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Hmmm, it makes no sense to me to say, "OP VS Hybrid." That's because we can get hybrids in OP.
I think most of my questions have been answered after reading a little more carefully. However, can we consider certain types of pollen control to be equivalent to plant isolation? For instance, can completely sealing off a flower and forcing it to self-pollinate be considered isolation? In my opinion a lot of these methods might have a higher percentage of maintaining purity than certain methods of isolating the plants alone, because if you are growing multiple varieties it can be challenging to keep out every bee all the time. Greenhouses have vents where bees can get in sometimes, and some people consider planting on opposite sides of the yard to be isolation (which it isn't). Everyone seems to have their own isolation methods and some are probably a lot better than others, no?
My book "breeding your own vegetable varieties" Carole Deppe makes it even more confusing. I agree with AJ, use "isolated" or "not isolated" to avoid confusion
"Open pollinated variety
A stable variety, a variety that breeds true from seed. (Normally maintained by allowing natural pollination under field conditions but hand pollination is sometimes used to achieve the equivalent.) Not a hybrid"
EXACTLY! I don't want to seem arrogant, but I'm not sure why people feel this is confusing. I think a lot of people are looking too much into the the words "open" and "pollination". I realize "Open Pollination" may be defined differently in different contexts. In the case of fruit and vegetable breeding, the opposite of "Open Pollinated" is "Hybrid", not "Closed Pollination". Don't look too deeply into it. This has little to do with isolation and what kind, other than that a successful plant breeder uses isolation to preserve purity of his/her OP veggie.
All heirlooms are OP however, not all OP fruits and veggies are heirlooms. If you want to preserve the traits of your heirloom you isolate it.
So yeah, seed could be described as "Isolated" or "Non-Isolated", OP should not be used in place of "non-isolated".
EXACTLY!
By the definition in the beginning of this tread it makes no sense to say a hybrid is the opposite.
Why?
If I have two different species or variations within the same mile, bees or another insect could could cross-pollinate them creating a hybrid. Your neighbor(s) may be growing peppers and an insect could introduce the outside pollen. If you have species/variations close enough, the wind could cross-pollinate them. Hybrids are not the antithesis of OP.
Edit: Also, for example, the bhut jolokia is really an interspecies hybrid. Does that mean we can never OP bhut jolokias?
The Bhut may be a result of a cross, but it has stabilized (which doesn't mean variations don't exist) over many, many generations. It is now an OP variety, not a hybrid (F1) in terms of vegetable breeding. If your OP varieties are cross pollinated (by a different variety or compatible species) the offspring are hybrids not OP anymore. You are still confusing "Open Pollinated" variety with Non-Isolated I think. I recommend reading some literature on plant breeding and seed saving, they may clarify the difference better than I. "Hybrid" is another term in which many definitions are used depending on context, adding to the confusion.
No worries, I plan to borrow some books on plant breeding from libraries. I didn't know they were talking about f1 hybrids. The DNA in the bhut jolokia shows c. chinnese with a bit of c. frutescen. Of course this is irrelevant if by hybrid they mean f1 hybrids!
open pollinated is slang for non-isolated, i mean if it's not isolated, who cares what you call it?
Yes thats one definition we've discussed
Technically f1s are the only hybrid stage, after that they are inbreeding or dehybridizing
According to THSC's DNA analzsis
"
* “Bhut Jolokia” and “Bih Jolokia” have different genetic structure based on comparison of DNA fragment and sequence data using 3 molecular techniques employed across six of the 12 Capsicum chromosomes.
* “Bih Jolokia” genetic structure is highly homologous with C.chinense and C.frutescens species whereas “Bhut Jolokia” is structurally more closely linked with C.annuum species.
* Reduced crop load in “Bhut Jolokia” as compared with “Bih Jolokia” may be linked to genetic self incompatibility.
* Continued research comparing such varieties and their closely related native landraces will prove to be vital in understanding evolutionary relationships that may be useful in overcoming agricultural barriers such as crop yield for such varieties.
* “Bhut Jolokia” and “Bih Jolokia” have different genetic structure based on comparison of DNA fragment and sequence data using 3 molecular techniques employed across six of the 12 Capsicum chromosomes.
* “Bih Jolokia” genetic structure is highly homologous with C.chinense and C.frutescens species whereas “Bhut Jolokia” is structurally more closely linked with C.annuum species.
* Reduced crop load in “Bhut Jolokia” as compared with “Bih Jolokia” may be linked to genetic self incompatibility.
* Continued research comparing such varieties and their closely related native landraces will prove to be vital in understanding evolutionary relationships that may be useful in overcoming agricultural barriers such as crop yield for such varieties."
Then hybrid is being used in some odd sense.
I called the bhut jolokia an interspecific hybrid. Is that incorrect? It has genes of two species of capsicum in its DNA. I read differently than that report, but it doesn't change that it's a mix of capsicum species.
Hmmm, I didn't think that many are interspecific. Not so black and white is it? Here is the article I had read on the Bhut Jolokia (it has been awhile since I've read it):
http://www.chilepepp...aHortSciArt.pdf
These types of articles are really neat. Awhile back I was trying to find information on chile genetics. If anyone knows an article or a good book specific to chiles on this topic pm me.
Edit: Breeding language is a little different it seems. Hybrid being short for F1 hybrid for example. Every practice has its own language of course. It's good for me to know because I don't want to confuse chile breeders!
http://www.chilepepp...aHortSciArt.pdf
These types of articles are really neat. Awhile back I was trying to find information on chile genetics. If anyone knows an article or a good book specific to chiles on this topic pm me.
Edit: Breeding language is a little different it seems. Hybrid being short for F1 hybrid for example. Every practice has its own language of course. It's good for me to know because I don't want to confuse chile breeders!
