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pequin? bird's eye? piri-piri?

Sujai

Sujai

[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]I saw the below plant in a village and its called "Kappal Milagai" in local language which literally means "Ship peppers", Its named so probably because it was introduced by some one who traveled abroad on a ship or because the erect pods face up like a ships sail.[/background]

[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]I have read that pequin, bird's eye, and piri-piri all have this behaviour of peppers facing up, but not sure which variety this particular plant belongs?[/background]

[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]
leafandflower.jpg
pepper_pods.jpg
flower.jpg
flower2.jpg
[/background]


[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]Regards,[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]Sujai[/background]
 
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Hey, welcome to TheHotPepper, Sujai! One of my co-workers is actually from the Tamil Nadu province, as well!



Regarding the pepper, I'd say that it is none of the ones listed in your topic heading. Pequin is a C.Annuum var. Glabriusculum, Bird's Eye and Piri Piri are C.Frutescens. Based on the growth habit and the flowers, I'd say that you found some sort of C.Chinense, but what kind I could not say.

Check out TheChileMan.org, and do a search for all C.Chinense and look through for a similar pod in the images on that site, it is a wonderful source of obscure chili info! Good luck, and nice find!


Take care,
Karl
 
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Hendrix1326 said:
Hey, welcome to TheHotPepper, Sujai! One of my co-workers is actually from the Tamil Nadu province, as well!



Regarding the pepper, I'd say that it is none of the ones listed in your topic heading. Pequin is a C.Annuum var. Glabriusculum, Bird's Eye and Piri Piri are C.Frutescens. Based on the growth habit and the flowers, I'd say that you found some sort of C.Chinense, but what kind I could not say.

Check out TheChileMan.org, and do a search for all C.Chinense and look through for a similar pod in the images on that site, it is a wonderful source of obscure chili info! Good luck, and nice find!


Take care,
Karl
Click to expand...

Thanks Karl,

The pepper pod that I have seen on the plant looks similar to C.Chinense "ARIBIBI (ARIVIVI) GUSANO" from Bolivia listed on thechileman.org

Like to know how did you relate it with C.Chinense?
Only traits that I could find in the plant that are from C.Chinense are that the owner told me the plant lived for a few years and the plant in pic was at least 4′ tall...
Also the solitary flowers led me to believe it was C.annuum, that's what a table i found on another popular gardening forum says.

[size="+4"]1[/size]​
Seeds dark, corolla purple . . . . . . C. pubescens
Seeds straw-colored, corolla white or greenish-white (rarely purple) . . . . . . continue to 2
[size="+4"]2[/size]​
Corolla with diffuse yellow spots at bases of lobes . . . . . . C. baccatum
Corolla without diffuse yellow spots at bases of lobes . . . . . . continue to 3
[size="+4"]3[/size]​
Corolla purple . . . . . . continue to 4
Corolla white or greenish-white . . . . . . continue to 5
[size="+4"]4[/size]​
Flowers solitary . . . . . . C. annuum
Flowers two or more at each node . . . . . . C. chinense
[size="+4"]5[/size]​
Calyx of mature fruit with annular (i.e., ring-like) constriction at junction with pedicel . . . . . . C. chinense
Calyx of mature fruit without annular constriction at junction with pedicel . . . . . . continue to 6
[size="+4"]6[/size]​
Flowers solitary . . . . . . continue to 7
Flowers two or more at each node . . . . . . continue to 8
[size="+4"]7[/size]​
Corolla milky white, lobes usually straight, pedicels often declining at anthesis (i.e., the period during which
a flower is fully open and functional) . . . . . . C. annuum
Corolla greenish white, lobes usually slightly revolute (i.e., rolled backward from the tip or margins to the
undersurface), pedicels erect at anthesis . . . . . . C. frutescens
[size="+4"]8[/size]​
Corolla milky white . . . . . . C. annuum
Corolla greenish white . . . . . . continue to 9
[size="+4"]9[/size]​
Pedicels erect at anthesis, corolla lobes usually slightly revolute . . . . . . C. frutescens
Pedicels declining at anthesis, corolla lobes straight . . . . . . C. chinense


Wondering how these plants made it to a remote village in northern Tamil Nadu all the way from Bolivia :rolleyes:

Anyway I had collected a few mature pods from the plant and germinated few seeds from the pods, will post better pics when my plants grow up.

Regards,
Sujai
 
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Hi & welcome Sujai,
they are definatley not "ARIBIBI (ARIVIVI) GUSANO" I have grown them and they do not ripen to red!
I'd say they were perhaps a C. Frutescens, with their origins from India,
Many people from Sri Lanka are Buddhist yes?
then perhaps there could be a chance also that they may have originated from Thailand?
 
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JungleRain said:
Hi & welcome Sujai,
they are definatley not "ARIBIBI (ARIVIVI) GUSANO" I have grown them and they do not ripen to red!
I'd say they were perhaps a C. Frutescens, with their origins from India,
Many people from Sri Lanka are Buddhist yes?
then perhaps there could be a chance also that they may have originated from Thailand?
Click to expand...

Thanks
Pods on the plant ripen to red so that rules out ARIBIBI GUSANO

Adding to confusion is that wikipedia has a different looking plant listed as Thai peppers under Bird's eye chili
Thai_peppers.jpg



The leaves on the plant that I saw were much larger than the ones in this pic, pods more irregular looking than the pic too.

Regards,
Sujai
 
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Regarding the single flower, not all C.Chinense have multiple flowers per node. I have some C.Chinense that have multiple flowers per node, but some only have one. The main thing for me being convinced that it is C.Chinense is the leaves. I have never seen a C.Annuum with broad, crinkled leaves. That is a hallmark of C.Chinense, though I do have some C.Chinense that have smaller leaves, such as the Aribibi Gusano, as a matter of fact.
 
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TOAW said:
"Wondering how these plants made it to a remote village in northern Tamil Nadu all the way from Bolivia :rolleyes:"
Sujai: Likely local trade with the Portugase colonies in that area during the 16th century?
Click to expand...

i completely agree with a Portuguese origin these guys where everywhere,and if this is the case then the first pic looks like MALAQUETTA which is Portuguese for "all spice", it is a form of PIRI PIRI and is smaller than the AFRICAN DEVIL but bigger the AFRICAN DEVIL is larger than Zambezi bird which is the smallest of the three mentioned, i grew two of them and my friend grows MALAQUETTA every year
i hope this helps and wasn't too exhaustive
thanks your friend Joe
 
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Hendrix1326 said:
Regarding the single flower, not all C.Chinense have multiple flowers per node. I have some C.Chinense that have multiple flowers per node, but some only have one. The main thing for me being convinced that it is C.Chinense is the leaves. I have never seen a C.Annuum with broad, crinkled leaves. That is a hallmark of C.Chinense, though I do have some C.Chinense that have smaller leaves, such as the Aribibi Gusano, as a matter of fact.
Click to expand...

I've grown a C. Frutescens with leaves as in Sujai's photo. I've also seen crinkled leaves on C. Baccatum plants. Identifying the species is not as simple as looking at whether the leaves are crinkled as there are environmental factors that cause the leaves to be that way.

I agree though that it is not a C. Annuum going by the flower and the constriction of the calyx at the base of the fruits.

Sujai said:
3
Corolla purple . . . . . . continue to 4
Corolla white or greenish-white . . . . . . continue to 5
Click to expand...

A point of difference may be found at step 3 when you see the flowers later on your own plants. I found the corollas on the C. Frutescens flowers I had seen were greenish before anthesis.
 
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Hendrix1326 said:
Regarding the single flower, not all C.Chinense have multiple flowers per node. I have some C.Chinense that have multiple flowers per node, but some only have one. The main thing for me being convinced that it is C.Chinense is the leaves. I have never seen a C.Annuum with broad, crinkled leaves. That is a hallmark of C.Chinense, though I do have some C.Chinense that have smaller leaves, such as the Aribibi Gusano, as a matter of fact.
Click to expand...

Only C.Chinense that I am grwoing is Bhut Jolokia, and it has pumped out three or four buds from each bifurcation node, that's the reason I thought the plant would not be a C.Chinense
Here in southern India almost all the cultivated peppers I have seen are of the type C.Annuum and a few other exotics usually grown at the back yard
In fact I had to pay around US$6 for few Bhut seeds from Assam, which is a rip-off considering the fact that other dry pepper pods are available in market for max US$5/KG

I saw your Youtube tasting videos, man you must be crazy to eat that Red Naga x 7 Pot
I am eagerly waiting for my Bhut to pod up so that I can attempt eating my first superhot :mouthonfire:


TOAW said:
"Wondering how these plants made it to a remote village in northern Tamil Nadu all the way from Bolivia :rolleyes:"
Sujai: Likely local trade with the Portugase colonies in that area during the 16th century?
Click to expand...

Goa 500 miles north west of the village where I found this plant was a Portuguese colony
But there seem to be many other types of pepper with similar description.

Some time back one of my friend had been to Kerala (another south Indian state that was very famous for its spice trade in colonial times)
and he saw some similar pepper plants growing wild in a rubber plantation and brought me a few pods
kerela1.jpg


kerela3.jpg


I did not see this plants, just the description my friend gave was like this "1' high x 3' broad bushy plants"
Both the pods look different than the ones I found in Tamil Nadu village, I am currently growing this and will post the pic of the plants once they are a bit big.

ajijoe said:
i completely agree with a Portuguese origin these guys where everywhere,and if this is the case then the first pic looks like MALAQUETTA which is Portuguese for "all spice", it is a form of PIRI PIRI and is smaller than the AFRICAN DEVIL but bigger the AFRICAN DEVIL is larger than Zambezi bird which is the smallest of the three mentioned, i grew two of them and my friend grows MALAQUETTA every year
i hope this helps and wasn't too exhaustive
thanks your friend Joe
Click to expand...

I too happened to see malagueta pepper on wikipedia and the pods look more similar to the type my friend brought from Kerala.
Sayaca_Tanager_feeding_on_malagueta_peppers.jpg


Regards,
Sujai
 
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Here are a couple C.Chinense that I think could match the one you have. What is the flavor like, and how familiar are you with the C.Chinense taste profile in general? Well, here are the suspects I dredged up:

PI 360729
PI 360732
PI 439486
PI 593608
Rebentona



There were a few others, but I lost them. I will post upon further research.
Karl
 
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Hendrix1326 said:
What is the flavor like, and how familiar are you with the C.Chinense taste profile in general?
Click to expand...

It has a fruity smell and was hotter than the other usual C.annuum types I am used to.
As far as C.Chinense goes, I had tasted small piece of a fresh Bhut that a coworker brought from Assam, but I don't remember any flavor as the heat was overwhelming.

Regards,
Sujai

Indiana_Jesse said:
To me it looks like C. frutescens, and I don't see any reason to give it another name besides its local name [background=rgb(255, 244, 228)]Kappal Milagai.[/background]
Click to expand...

Jesse,
How did you conclude it is a C.frutesens?

PS. I am not contesting any of you guys, I just want to know as I am really new to pepper growing.

Regards,
Sujai
 
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Growth habit, flowers, and constricted calyx of the fruits tell me that it is a C. frutescens. It looks very much like a Tabasco or Malagueta. I think it is important to always use the local name, so that modern origin can be traced (as opposed to the ancient or historic origin, which would be somewhere in the Americas). It bothers me a lot to see all of these peppers from, for example, Peru/Bolivia/Ecuador with English names only (or no name at all), that aren't even an attempt to translate the original/local name.

So in my opinion Kappal Milagai is the best name for it, but "(name of village) ship pepper" could work to.
 
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