pests Please help my pepper plants!

[QueenOfPeppers]

For some reason my smallest pepper plants are showing strange symptoms, and they do not look very healthy. I've already cut back on watering to resolve the edema, is the light green coloring and brown wilt due to my overwatering, or is it bacterial/fungal? Please help me

Grown indoors. Temperatures are 78-84°F, 55-65% RH. They get light 16 hours a day, and the LED light is a couple feet from the plants. The soil is Fox Farms Ocean Soil amended with coco and perlite at a 3:2:3 ratio respectively.

Edit: idk how to delete a post, but I re-posted this in Identification since this may not be the right spot.

 

[Voodoo 6]

Bacterial leaf spots?, looks like its in the early stages. Maybe one of the growers can confirm.

https://www.gardenia.net/disease/bacterial-leaf-spot

Cheers!

 

[CaneDog]

Sorry to see that happening with you plants. I don't have any strong opinion yet on whether it's BLS and am probably leaning toward not right now. If it is, there seems to be more than just that going on. It looks like some kind of burning to me. What kind of light are you using and how close is it (I did notice you said "a couple feet," but more precisely?) Some of what's happening looks like when high intensity LED's are too close. They're deep green suggesting plenty of some nutes, so I'm wondering if the light spots are chlorosis. Are you supplementing nutrients?

Sometimes that much perlite can make the soil cement-like - especially if the perlite is dusty with small pieces. That can mess with the roots. Also, I wouldn't change my watering because of edema. I'd make a proper watering determination separately based on the potting media, retention, etc. Sometimes edema just happens, even in good conditions, and there's simply not much you can do about it.

 

[QueenOfPeppers]

Sorry to see that happening with you plants. I don't have any strong opinion yet on whether it's BLS and am probably leaning toward not right now. If it is, there seems to be more than just that going on. It looks like some kind of burning to me. What kind of light are you using and how close is it (I did notice you said "a couple feet," but more precisely?) Some of what's happening looks like when high intensity LED's are too close. They're deep green suggesting plenty of some nutes, so I'm wondering if the light spots are chlorosis. Are you supplementing nutrients?

Sometimes that much perlite can make the soil cement-like - especially if the perlite is dusty with small pieces. That can mess with the roots. Also, I wouldn't change my watering because of edema. I'd make a proper watering determination separately based on the potting media, retention, etc. Sometimes edema just happens, even in good conditions, and there's simply not much you can do about it.

The light is a MarsHydro TSL2000 (300w LED), set to 62% intensity, and 30-36" away from the plants depending on the plant. Honestly the drainage I've found to be quite good with the soil mix so far, at the very least the top 4" of soil seems to dry very quickly, but I never check further down because more roots are set there. I water the fabric pots once a week, usually ¼-⅜ gallons of water.

I only started giving nutrients the last watering about a week ago. That was GH MaxiBloom at 25% strength and TPS CalMag at 50% strength. The issues have been there since before that though, and I got it to fix this thinking it was a nutrient deficiency when it was in earlier stages.

Also, really good to know about the edema, i just assumed I was doing something wrong. Thank you!

 

[Voodoo 6]

On pictures 1 and 2 of the original post, what are those crystal like things on the leaves? Hard to tell from the pics, those cant be spider mites??

 

[CaneDog]

On pictures 1 and 2 of the original post, what are those crystal like things on the leaves? Hard to tell from the pics, those cant be spider mites??

It looks like intumescence to me. Not technically edema, but generally thought of as the same. Here's a good article on intumescence and edema.

 

[QueenOfPeppers]

On pictures 1 and 2 of the original post, what are those crystal like things on the leaves? Hard to tell from the pics, those cant be spider mites??

I've checked it out under a microscope, they're just crystals. I presumed edema.

 

[CaneDog]

I wish I had an easy answer for you. You're obviously doing many things right, but something is wrong. If it were me, the next thing I'd look at is the soil and root conditions. There are things suggesting that water/root conditions may be an issue. Your bags are pretty big, and sometimes roots can experience difficult/mixed water conditions in big bags when they haven't filled them out yet, especially if something is off with the soil mix. I have had compaction issues that weren't easy to see until I got into the soil and saw unhealthy roots. If I were going to check on that, I'd carefully remove one of the affected plants from it's container and examine the conditions of the soil and the roots. It's kind of a big step, but you can learn a lot that way. Maybe give a little time first for someone else to chime in with some good ideas to consider.

 

[QueenOfPeppers]

After giving it some time, I've decided to go scorched earth. I've removed every single leaf that has said damage to help if it  is bacterial/fungal. I'll additionally be using copper (oxoanate) fungicide weekly.

I'm not sure if the plants will survive with so few leaves while already fruiting peppers, but if they die they die. I'm too stressed about this spreading to my healthy plants.

If it's the roots and the plants die anyway, I suppose I'll just have to start new plants.

 

[Voodoo 6]

Low nitrogen or potassium, and extra high magnesium and calcium levels have been associated with increased crop susceptibility to BLS. Pepper crops that show visible signs of nitrogen deficiency (light colored leaves) have been severely affected by BLS in Connecticut. Researchers have also found that BLS was more severe on pepper plants grown in soils adjusted with dolomitic lime, which is high in magnesium, than plants grown in soils adjusted with Cal limestone (CaCO3). Maintain nutrients at the proper levels (moderate to high) to help plants resist infection.

Managing Bacterial Leaf Spot | Integrated Pest Management

Bacterial leaf spot (BLS) is the most common, and one of the two most destructive, diseases of peppers in the eastern United States. Leaf spots are water-so ...

ipm.cahnr.uconn.edu

A good read on BLS, hope those plants bounce back! You look to have a really nice growing setup.

Cheers!

 

[Voodoo 6]

Keep us posted, interested to see how it all works out!

 

[QueenOfPeppers]

Keep us posted, interested to see how it all works out!

Will do!

 

[QueenOfPeppers]

Continued symptoms showing up on the new leaves after removal and application of copper fungicide. Additionally, leaf tips are turning dark/grey.

@CaneDog I was wondering if the dark grey leaf tips indicates any particular issue to you, or if you're still unsure. I don't think I saw or noted this symptom previously.

 

[Voodoo 6]

How long have the plants been on the copper???

 

[QueenOfPeppers]

How long have the plants been on the copper???

I apply once a week, 4 days ago was it's second application.

 

[Voodoo 6]

Maybe need to hit it harder? Will send you some links.

Are you hitting both top and bottom of the leaves?

also found this works well as a bactericide:

Mix equal parts alcohol and water then shake.

Or even half and half peroxide and water.

This is what another article is saying, but pretty sure you know these:

Are Your Plant Leaves Turning Brown and Crispy?

I have highlighted the top 6 main reasons why your plant leaves are turning brown and crispy. It is important to be aware of all of these!

www.ohiotropics.com

My Plant Leaves Are Turning Black - Why and What to Do

If black spots appear on your plant leaves, the most common cause is fungus. However, pests, amount of light, poor irrigation and other factors can contribute to plant leaves changing color or black s

home.onehowto.com

 

[QueenOfPeppers]

Maybe need to hit it harder? Will send you some links.

Are you hitting both top and bottom of the leaves?

also found this works well as a bactericide:

Mix equal parts alcohol and water then shake.

Or even half and half peroxide and water.

This is what another article is saying, but pretty sure you know these:

Are Your Plant Leaves Turning Brown and Crispy?

I have highlighted the top 6 main reasons why your plant leaves are turning brown and crispy. It is important to be aware of all of these!

www.ohiotropics.com

I'm doing my best to spray the bottom too. Since these are in cups and sparse foliage I'd say they're probably the only plants I did 100% get all the leaves on.

 

[Voodoo 6]

On pics 2 and 3 still wondering what those crystal like grains are on the leaves, you said you looked at them under a microscope? What do you make of them?

Never mind, pretty sure Cane called that one Edema:

https://mygardyn.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/6639347637773-Identifying-and-Understanding-Edema-

 

[QueenOfPeppers]

On pics 2 and 3 still wondering what those crystal like grains are on the leaves, you said you looked at them under a microscope? What do you make of them?

Crystalline and inorganic, so not a pest. Unsure past that, I'd assumed edema.

 

[Voodoo 6]

Once saw this one book on plant diseases, it was as thick as a full blown dictionary. You can live 100 years and not know everything about plants.