capsaicin Qs on Cayenne, Capsaicin, Scoville Scale, and more...

[Divebitch]

http://www.allenhost...cayenne 001.JPG

Hi everyone. First post, although I chatted w/a few nice and helpful members earlier right after joining. First I'd like to confirm these are cayennes, almost certain after looking at pics and doing some research. The peps in the pic are on a 10" dinner plate. Background, I live in Philly PA, and bought these at a small local produce store (maybe 1500 sq ft). So these were obviously (to me) bought from the same farm/grove. I had no idea what they were, but they were on the $1 rack in bags of at least a pound (is that a good deal or what? hehe). But I love peppers, and a fair to good amount of heat, so I took a chance.

In the chat, told a member I tried a pepper and it wasn't hot at all. Even the seeds had the mildest of bites. In fact the meat was sweet, almost just like a red bell pepper. I understand (maybe hehe), that fertilizers and overwatering can remove the heat. Since the chat, decided to taste another one before posting here, which sure enough had plenty of heat (no idea if it was as much as it should have had, cuz up to this point, my experience w/cayenne was only powder form). So I gotta wonder...is this unusual?

Now to the capsaicin and Scoville scale questions....

1) If no heat, less capsicum, even within same species?
2) Is the amount of capsaicin in exact relation to the heat in the pepper? IOW, say an individual cayenne scores 20k and a habaneno 200k. Does the habanero have 10x the capsaicin gram for gram? Cuz I'm finding ALL this literature o cayenne performing all these medical miracles, yet notsomuch on the much hotter peppers. Why?
3) Is capsicum a genus or such, and the actual chemical is capsaicin (meaning capsaicin is found in non-capsicum peppers as well?


Thanks much for any help.

P.S. Couldn't find a way to post a pic. The help section mentioned something about 'choose file' which I couldn't find.

 

[Flamecycle]

Hey. Those look like cayenne's to me but I'm no expert. Peppers within a given variety can vary pretty dramatically in heat, depending on conditions. I have cayennes and sometimes some of the first peppers of a flush will be more mild than the rest.

Your capsaicin related questions have been asked and answered lots before. Here's one thread I remember discussing it. Also try the search function.

The short answer is that generally speaking yes, the concentration of capsiacinoids in a pepper determine its heat, so one with less heat has a smaller concentration of capsaicinoids, and a hotter one has a higher concentration.

oh, and

 

[Hot Pooper]

If that is a 10" plate, then those are NOT Cayenne. They are way too fat. In my experience, Cayenne's dont normally get THAT long. They DO look like they were crossed with Cayenne though.

 

[Divebitch]

Hey. Those look like cayenne's to me but I'm no expert. Peppers within a given variety can vary pretty dramatically in heat, depending on conditions. I have cayennes and sometimes some of the first peppers of a flush will be more mild than the rest.

Your capsaicin related questions have been asked and answered lots before. Here's one thread I remember discussing it. Also try the search function.

The short answer is that generally speaking yes, the concentration of capsiacinoids in a pepper determine its heat, so one with less heat has a smaller concentration of capsaicinoids, and a hotter one has a higher concentration.

oh, and

Thanks so much for the welcome and reply. And that was a great post, your info was good and thorough, but TBH, more than the diff between capsicum and capsaicin, my bigger Qs were whether or not the capsaicin levels of a pepper gram for gram were in direct correlation to that individual pepper's Scoville index.

If that is a 10" plate, then those are NOT Cayenne. They are way too fat. In my experience, Cayenne's dont normally get THAT long. They DO look like they were crossed with Cayenne though.

10 & 1/4. Funny, never looked at anything on peppers online, so a total noob. But spent a few hours trying to learn about them this morning (was surprised at the medicinal stuff, so I kept going). Anyway, found one site citing the peppers were about 2 inches, another saying 6 - 10" which mine seemed to be. I'd say the fattest is just under an inch. But could be a cross breed, huh? If that's easy enough to do, maybe. Frankly, I was just a litle shocked that 1 pepper could taste like a red bell, and the other hot when they were probably picked within yards of each other.

Hmmmm, thought I answered hot pooper in a new post. Sorry, just learning about everything here I guess. hehe

 

[Dulac]

http://www.allenhost...cayenne 001.JPG

Hi everyone. First post, although I chatted w/a few nice and helpful members earlier right after joining. First I'd like to confirm these are cayennes, almost certain after looking at pics and doing some research. The peps in the pic are on a 10" dinner plate. Background, I live in Philly PA, and bought these at a small local produce store (maybe 1500 sq ft). So these were obviously (to me) bought from the same farm/grove. I had no idea what they were, but they were on the $1 rack in bags of at least a pound (is that a good deal or what? hehe). But I love peppers, and a fair to good amount of heat, so I took a chance.

In the chat, told a member I tried a pepper and it wasn't hot at all. Even the seeds had the mildest of bites. In fact the meat was sweet, almost just like a red bell pepper. I understand (maybe hehe), that fertilizers and overwatering can remove the heat. Since the chat, decided to taste another one before posting here, which sure enough had plenty of heat (no idea if it was as much as it should have had, cuz up to this point, my experience w/cayenne was only powder form). So I gotta wonder...is this unusual?

Now to the capsaicin and Scoville scale questions....

1) If no heat, less capsicum, even within same species?
2) Is the amount of capsaicin in exact relation to the heat in the pepper? IOW, say an individual cayenne scores 20k and a habaneno 200k. Does the habanero have 10x the capsaicin gram for gram? Cuz I'm finding ALL this literature o cayenne performing all these medical miracles, yet notsomuch on the much hotter peppers. Why?
3) Is capsicum a genus or such, and the actual chemical is capsaicin (meaning capsaicin is found in non-capsicum peppers as well?


Thanks much for any help.

P.S. Couldn't find a way to post a pic. The help section mentioned something about 'choose file' which I couldn't find.

They resemble cayennes. They might be a particular variety of cayenne from crossbreeding. They don't look like your classical cayenne. That doesn't really matter if you like the pepper though!

Answers:
1) Yes, for example bell peppers are of the same species as cayennes!
2) I don't think it's because the different capsinoids (capsaicin is the more common one) affect our taste buds differently. There is a degree of subjectivity and complexity (with the various capsinoids) that cannot be fully captured in the current method of testing heat. However, it gives you a general idea of how hot the peppers are. They are measuring the capsinoids gram by gram to give them a Scoville rating. I think they are focusing on cayennes because more people can handle them and know about them in comparison to the superhots. Cayennes are also very easy to grow.
3) Capsicum is a genus that encompasses the various different species of chiles. I don't think any other plant has capsinoids. However, perhaps one has been genetically modified to carry the gene without my knowledge. Something like that is very possible with today's technology. They just need a good reason to do it.

 

[theghostpepperstore]

I think the reason cayennes get used for extractions more than any other pepper is based on their concentration and the cayenne plant's high yield. For their size they are fairly hot and cayenne plants produce crazy amounts of pods. I am always suprised that we are not seeing large scale extractions from some of the other high yielding plants that have pods with higher SHU's.

 

[Divebitch]

DULAC: "2) I don't think it's because the different capsinoids (capsaicin is the more common one) affect our taste buds differently. There is a degree of subjectivity and complexity (with the various capsinoids) that cannot be fully captured in the current method of testing heat. However, it gives you a general idea of how hot the peppers are. They are measuring the capsinoids gram by gram to give them a Scoville rating. I think they are focusing on cayennes because more people can handle them and know about them in comparison to the superhots. Cayennes are also very easy to grow."

Sorry, didn't mean to format the post this way. Just seemed when you quote, it doesn't create a new post. What you said (in bold) is exactly what I suspected. Was trying to make sense of my findings (albeit just researched a few hours), and why cayennes were blabbed about medicinally while more powerful peppers went unmentioned. Thx much for the reply and insight dulac!

I think the reason cayennes get used for extractions more than any other pepper is based on their concentration and the cayenne plant's high yield. For their size they are fairly hot and cayenne plants produce crazy amounts of pods. I am always suprised that we are not seeing large scale extractions from some of the other high yielding plants that have pods with higher SHU's.

Thanks! For this particular batch, could have been very weak. As it stands, with first pepper tastng like red bell, and the 2nd being hot, I'll have to check every one b4 cooking which is fine. Still haven't had many Qs answered but fine. Although I love moderate heat, a total newb as far as the more esoteric stuff.

Okay, I hit 'quote' and it latches on to my last post. Does anyone else belonging to other forums think this is a glitch?

OMG, this forum is just like the chat. Okay, sorry. lol But it's confusing to me.

 

[Flamecycle]

TBH, more than the diff between capsicum and capsaicin, my bigger Qs were whether or not the capsaicin levels of a pepper gram for gram were in direct correlation to that individual pepper's Scoville index.

Scoville index is in its heart a concentration index (originally it was a dilution test). So for example if we use all grams as units and capsaicin as the heat provider, scovilles roughly = (grams of capsaicin) devided by (grams of pepper flesh) * (16 million). Thus a pepper that was 1/10 capsaicin, there would be 0.1 grams of capsaicin in 1 gram of pepper flesh, (0.1 / 1 * 16 Million) so the scoville rating would be expected to be 1.6 Million. Likewise a pepper with a scoville rating of 160,000 would be expected to be about 1/100th capsaicin by weight, and one with 16,000 scoville rating would be expected to consist of about 1/1000 capsaicin.

So yes, capsaicin levels per gram are directly related to the Scoville rating.

 

[Divebitch]

Scoville index is in its heart a concentration index (originally it was a dilution test). So for example if we use all grams as units and capsaicin as the heat provider, scovilles roughly = (grams of capsaicin) devided by (grams of pepper flesh) * (16 million). Thus a pepper that was 1/10 capsaicin, there would be 0.1 grams of capsaicin in 1 gram of pepper flesh, (0.1 / 1 * 16 Million) so the scoville rating would be expected to be 1.6 Million. Likewise a pepper with a scoville rating of 160,000 would be expected to be about 1/100th capsaicin by weight, and one with 16,000 scoville rating would be expected to consist of about 1/1000 capsaicin.

So yes, capsaicin levels per gram are directly related to the Scoville rating.

Okay, thanks! Was wondering why there seemed to be undue over-emphasis on the cayenne pepper. Perhaps it is over deserved if you eat the more powerful types.