Ridiculously hot sauce with Chile de Arbol?

[fwestrom]

I had a hot sauce at a Mexican restaurant a while back that I would love to try and reproduce.  I am wondering if you guys can help me come up with an idea how it might be done.
 
It was a thick bright-red paste, and had an extremely intense version of the flavor that you get from the salsa they bring you at most Mexican restaurants if you ask for a hot salsa.
 
The sauce was as hot as anything I can imagine.  I eat habaneros and ghost peppers, but this sauce was hotter than anything I have tried, and they said it was made from chile de arbol.  I imagine it must have been some kind of puree, but I wasn't under the impression that it could gain that much head
 
Anybody have any ideas?
 

 

[juanitos]

 

 

 
chile de arbol are like 15-50k, no where near ghosts 800k-1mil
 
unless they use chile de arbol as the puree then add something more for heat (extract maybe)idk
 

 

[beerbreath81]

First,     to THP
 
From what you are saying---"you had a hot sauce" , "similiar to the salsa you get at mexican resturants if asking for hot" Off that Im guessing that you want a smooth consistancy, like a hot sauce but something that you can dip your chips in like a salsa.
 
I really dont think they are using anything over a habanero....maybe ghost pepper, but i doubt it.  I will go off what you said and go with it IS hotter than a ghost pepper, that being the case, heres where i would start, get a hot powder that doesnt lend alot of flavor like trinidad scorpion, or if used sparingly pure evil. Hydrate some arbols in hot water, put in blender with some water and blend until smooth and then start making additions based on flavor as you remember it.
 
Lime
Garlic
Tomatoes
Salt
Onion
Cumin??
are ones I would start with.
Adjust heat level with powder or pure evil.
 
But my advice would be to go back to resturant if local and just ask how they make it or where they buy it. Whats the harm in asking?

 

[texas blues]

Chile de arbol are sold in grocery stores all over Texas, usually dried. They're rather ambiguously associated and confused with those labeled as japones. Without the label to say so I can't tell either one apart and suspect more often than not that they are one in the same.
 
I've used them in making a pequin/arbol type sauce, think Cholula. I find arbols a rather dry flat tasting generic chile that adapts to many recipes readily but heat wise I put in the "gringo" category with heat not much hotter than a jalapeno. Sure you'll find sources that say that the Scoville rating to be anywhere from 15K-50K but I have yet to encounter any that were any where near hot enough to justify that rating.
 
As for the "thick bright red paste", could actually be caused by not using chile arbol but rather fresh red thai et.al of that ilk which are often confused and ambiguously labeled as mentioned earlier. Seems ever dang store I've ever been to labels fresno chile's as red jalapeno. Maybe its marketing tomfoolery to justify the selling price of 4.99 a pound vs. .69 a pound.
 
If you could find some, I'd recommend getting some fresno's or any bright red annums and grinding them up in a cuisinart, blender, or molcojete or whatever you have and add in some of the other flavors that you tasted in there. The usual suspects being garlic, onion, and usually tomato. 
 
Could be a fun way to experiment and develop your own hack on it.

 

[RocketMan]

+1 to all comments, you can easily do what your looking for by making te generic salsa that, as you say, you find in most all Mexican food restaurants. Then get some Pure Evil from Salsa Lady and dropper it up to tr level of pain you most enjoy, QED as my calc teacher used to say.

Cheers
RM

 

[The Count]

I have to agree with what everyone else has said, arbol chiles are not very hot.  They are used alot in our part of texas in mexican restaurants salsas and sauces.  I use them quite a bit as well.  But they are not very hot.  They may use arbors for the major flavor in a sauce, but if its really hot, they have something else in it for the heat.

 

[Tecolote]

I've bought dried arbol chiles with no heat  and some that were very hot. They very between producer and times of year they are harvested.  If you get really hot arbol chiles and use more chiles than tomatoes and onions in your sauce it can come out very spicy.  In my typical sauce which is based on how my mom makes her fresh sauce is usually dried piquins or dried chile de arbol. I prefer piquins or tepins. I toast the dried piquins slowly for a couple of minutes, too much toasting can make the chiles bitter. Then i slightly char and soften either tomatillos or tomatoes along with yellow onion and a couple of cloves of garlic in a frying pan or gridle, just enough to get some black spots, again too much blackening can make the sauce bitter. I then add some vinegar, salt, and  throw it in the blender and its done. I never measure anything. 

 

[smokemaster]

I think a lot of names are generic as far as the market goes.
 
I've grown seeds from crushed and dried peppers CALLED red pepper this or that.
I get a different plant even out of the same crushed pepper pack (pizza place crushed pepper flakes).
 
I think a lot of pepper names are considered inter-changable by the people who sell the products.
You might get Chile De Arbol (means a chile tree shaped plant) in season BUT anything else in between.
 
I think the Scoville rating SOMETIMES doesn't agree with taste buds.
 
I've eaten a LOT of Frutescens that were Super hot at first but the heat dies fast.
They ARE GREAT for a HOT FAST BURN.
Check out a LOT of the unknown ornamentals Called inedible because they are sometimes VERY hot(most have little flavour though).
 
(Might be WHY the PC1 at one time tested as hot as a Bhut or why early Bhuts were either considered to have chinense AND either Annuum OR Frutescence  gene wise.
 
I personally think it depended on the region it was grown in.
What else ended up OVER THE YEARS to create the LANDRACE variety each region grows-Chinense or Frutescens cross or Annuum.
 
 
Maybe Scovies weren't there,BUT for a few seconds I was wondering about what I ate...
 
I love Frutescens as an addition with stuff or when I want a taste and burn but want it to be cool for other people to eat.
They fit the bill a lot of times when your trying to feed several people at a BBQ or?.
Heat might be too hot for some but just before the person thinks they are going to die,the heat is gone and they only taste the stuff they ate or whatever.
 
Same SOMETIMES goes with Pubescens.
They aren't generally hotter than Habs. BUT I've had some that easily seemed hotter.
They are supposed to have a couple versions of Capsaisin in then.
Might not have the sku. But since they hit a couple receptors,SOME can seem a lot hotter than the test tube sample says.
 
I've de seeded pods that tasted Apricot sweet,Had others that had Hab. heat with the same heat.
Some I added the de seeded placenta to add heat to,others the flesh wasn't different than the placenta.
 
I guess i'd try and find out what the place used,ingrediant wise,if you can.
Most places these days don't want to give out recipes.
The foodie crap has made EVERY idiot into a super Chief.
Go to a career college and your an expert in a year or so.
 
I've NEVER had a problem getting an answer about what the food I'm eating was in a local scarf and barf (eat lots of GREAT food,Drink too many GREAT beers and shots or REAL Margaritas)(Scarf = pig out,ya I'm getting old...).
 
Guys in the places I'm talking about have NO recipe.
They mix up the sauce,taste it and add whatever.
 
As you posted,since you DO have experience with supers and consider the stuff you ate as being as hot.
I'd go for the salsa/sauce was made out of a mix of peppers.
Probably Annuums AND Frutescens.
IF they were using Extract or supers they would advertise it as BEING THE HOTTEST thing in town.
Maybe they do,you didn't say.
 
I've cooked in a LOT of LARGE and small eateries.
Anywhere from serving 40 tables a couple times a day to well over 1000+ (depending on season and resort.).
 
If you are looking for a GREAT tasting Puree,ask Scorpion John what was in what he sent me.
He made a perfect blend of flavours in his puree.
NOT Annuum,but he has his act together as far as making a great blend of heat and flavour.
 
I'd bet he can help you out in formulating a non Chinense tasting puree with the heat you want.
Since I've had Japones that I think were Frutescens I think a great combo would be Annuums AND Frutescens.

 

[Jem936]

I made very very hot Chile De Arbol sauce around December and It was thick and extremely spicy. I just used dried Chile de Arbol that you can purchase at a local grocery store and add made a sauce out of that using a whole bag of chile de arbol and very few of any other chiles and stuff like onion garlic salt etc...
It came out good and extremely spicy for me to even eat. Good luck I hope you make some spicy Arbol sauce.

 

[ms1476]

Chile de Arbol is a staple seasoning in my home. They are not very flavorful, but they have decent heat for sprinkling on anything and everything. I get big bags of smoked dried pods at Walmart for about $1.50. The salsa you are referring to is usually made without measurements but here is a good recipe to start with

http://mexican.food.com/recipe/salsa-de-chiles-de-arbol-red-hot-297752

 

[fwestrom]

Thanks for the warm welcome!
 
I totally understand that de Arbol are barely warm compared to other peppers (many of which I already eat), but that is what they told me they used.  Perhaps the truth is more like what a couple of you have suggested: they added something extra to make it so hot.
 
 
It sounds like the consensus is that I should try to ask them what they used again, and maybe I will get a better answer than the first time.  It's kind-of hard to understand the couple of guys there in the kitchen, as they only speak a little English and I don't speak any Spanish.  I will stop in there and ask again, and I'll post what I find out if I can get anything useful.
 
I also like the idea proposed to try a recipe (or two) and adjust as I go to get closer to what I'm looking for, so I am definitely going to give that a try.  I'll post pictures of what I manage to come up with as I go.

 
beerbreath81: I'm definitely going to try your suggestion.
 
Anybody else have suggestions for a recipe to try as a starting point?
 
Description of the original sauce, for reference:

• It was a thick bright-red paste, and had an extremely intense version of the flavor that you get from the salsa they bring you at most Mexican restaurants if you ask for a hot salsa.
• Consistency resembled ketchup, with a more diffuse surface appearance.
• It may have been a thick and smooth puree, (going by pictures here, as I'm new at this).
• I had it at a Mexican restaurant, and they were hesitant to let me try it at all because it was so hot.  The server said most Mexicans he knows can't even eat it even though they eat very spicy food.
• The guy from the kitchen said it was made from de Arbol, which I don't understand because it was hotter than what you get by eating a whole fresh ghost pepper.

 
This is going to be fun, thanks guys!

 
 
 
 

First,     to THP
 
From what you are saying---"you had a hot sauce" , "similiar to the salsa you get at mexican resturants if asking for hot" Off that Im guessing that you want a smooth consistancy, like a hot sauce but something that you can dip your chips in like a salsa.
... 
But my advice would be to go back to resturant if local and just ask how they make it or where they buy it. Whats the harm in asking?

 

...
I guess i'd try and find out what the place used,ingrediant wise,if you can.
...
Guys in the places I'm talking about have NO recipe.
They mix up the sauce,taste it and add whatever.
...

 

I made very very hot Chile De Arbol sauce around December and It was thick and extremely spicy. I just used dried Chile de Arbol that you can purchase at a local grocery store and add made a sauce out of that using a whole bag of chile de arbol and very few of any other chiles and stuff like onion garlic salt etc...
It came out good and extremely spicy for me to even eat. Good luck I hope you make some spicy Arbol sauce.

 

 

[beerbreath81]

Yup, keep us posted and show us some pictures of process and what you come up with....we like pictures

 

[Tecolote]

I was going to make some sauce and remembered this topic. This my very hot chile de arbol sauce.
Toasted half a 12oz bag of chile de arbol, and some garlic

 
char tomatoes and onions

 
 
ground up my chiles 

still grinding

finished grinding, i charred the tomatoes and onions, i like using yellow or white onion, all i had was green onions

non spicy ingredients go into blender, they look at each other with longing

i added salt and vinegar wile they were still in blender
 
I didn't use all the chile powder and it was still way too spicy

had to add one more tomato

Its still very spicy

It has so many chiles and their seeds it had a mole flavor. Don't toast the chiles so much if you use as many chiles as i did it will make the sauce too bitter. Doesn't taste the same if they're not toasted, and i think using the molcajete and tejolote(mexican mortar and pestle )gives it a different flavor.

 

[Jem936]

I was going to make some sauce and remembered this topic. This my very hot chile de arbol sauce.
Toasted half a 12oz bag of chile de arbol, and some garlic

 
char tomatoes and onions

 
 
ground up my chiles 

still grinding

finished grinding, i charred the tomatoes and onions, i like using yellow or white onion, all i had was green onions

non spicy ingredients go into blender, they look at each other with longing

i added salt and vinegar wile they were still in blender
 
I didn't use all the chile powder and it was still way too spicy

had to add one more tomato

Its still very spicy

It has so many chiles and their seeds it had a mole flavor. Don't toast the chiles so much if you use as many chiles as i did it will make the sauce too bitter. Doesn't taste the same if they're not toasted, and i think using the molcajete and tejolote(mexican mortar and pestle )gives it a different flavor.

 
Awww Tecolote I love these photos  They are beautiful!
I am excited to see that I am not the only one who uses a Molcajete n' Tejolote.
The salsa look delicious. I wish I could try some.