Rock Dust

[Vicious Vex]

 
Compost is good.  Do you make your own?  Have you ever considered adding it to the compostable ingredients?

 
Yes I do.  I have never really considered adding anything to the compost.  I tend to keep things simple.   If I could see a reasonable use for the product for an actual problem i have, I might consider adding it.   I would have to do more research.  

 

[solid7]

 
Yes I do.  I have never really considered adding anything to the compost.  I tend to keep things simple.   If I could see a reasonable use for the product for an actual problem i have, I might consider adding it.   I would have to do more research.  

 
I was just asking because there is a train of thought out there that adding rock dust actually helps speed up the composting process.  It would be interesting to see if any real people (like here on THP) have ever done a comparison.

 

[Vicious Vex]

 
I was just asking because there is a train of thought out there that adding rock dust actually helps speed up the composting process.  It would be interesting to see if any real people (like here on THP) have ever done a comparison.

 
Well do you have any research availiable for reading? I am getting ready to start another compost pile. I can do a side by side test.   This is a hot compost, and should be ready by late July.  I have enough to seperate the piles into two 3x3x3 piles instead of a 2cuyd pile. 

 

[solid7]

 
Well do you have any research availiable for reading? I am getting ready to start another compost pile. I can do a side by side test.   This is a hot compost, and should be ready by late July.  I have enough to seperate the piles into two 3x3x3 piles instead of a 2cuyd pile. 

 
Yeah, but most of it at home.  Here's one to get started with.  Lots of info out there, most of it un-scientific, but a lot of it paraphrased from scientific studies, from which the actual study is referenced....
 
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261616767_Enhancing_of_the_Composting_Rate_of_Spent_Mushroom_Substrate_by_Rock_Dust

 

[Vicious Vex]

 
Yeah, but most of it at home.  Here's one to get started with.  Lots of info out there, most of it un-scientific, but a lot of it paraphrased from scientific studies, from which the actual study is referenced....
 
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261616767_Enhancing_of_the_Composting_Rate_of_Spent_Mushroom_Substrate_by_Rock_Dust

 
I appreciate it.  I'll start doing some reading.  I have all of my materials ready to go.  I would just have to procure rock dust

 

[ColdSmoke]

 
I was just asking because there is a train of thought out there that adding rock dust actually helps speed up the composting process.  It would be interesting to see if any real people (like here on THP) have ever done a comparison.

 
I've read that people add it their compost heap and even their worm farms...I'm going to do both

 

[solid7]

 
I've read that people add it their compost heap and even their worm farms...I'm going to do both

I don't do compost heaps, so I can't do a side-by-side comparison to validate the speed of decomposition.  For me, the leachate from the compost is too valuable to let run into the ground, so I keep worms, and catch the runoff.  And I don't like to add rock dust through my entire container, so I'm not currently adding it into the worm bins.
 
What I really wish I could do, is come up with a container - that has a removable piece that reveals a window - that would show the development of the top layer of the soil/mix when you add it in as a top dressing or top fill.   It's heavier than the mix, so you wouldn't want it homogenously distributed through the container.  But it doesn't affect the structure of the soil/mix underneath.  It's what I would equate to having humus, with free draining soil or sand underneath.

 

 

[ColdSmoke]

I don't do compost heaps, so I can't do a side-by-side comparison to validate the speed of decomposition.  For me, the leachate from the compost is too valuable to let run into the ground, so I keep worms, and catch the runoff.  And I don't like to add rock dust through my entire container, so I'm not currently adding it into the worm bins.
 

 
Off topic a bit; do you dilute your leachate?...I'm assuming you use it on your outdoor plants

 

[solid7]

 
Off topic a bit; do you dilute your leachate?...I'm assuming you use it on your outdoor plants

 
Yes.  A little bit goes a long ways.
 
Something on the order of 20:1 water to leachate.

 

[ColdSmoke]

I'm such an idiot ...I've been tossing mine. Well, I guess it's a new bin and I don't have enough house plants to make it worthwhile. I will be using it all this grow season. 

 

[solid7]

If you grow organically, use it to inoculate your fertilizers after application, and/or use it as a foliar spray.  Also, works great for watering new starts.

 

[Myxlplyk]

Radiation is natural.

 
So is cancer.
 
AFAIK, kelp has all of the micros the plants need. Azomite boasts 70 micros. What good are they if the plant only uses 15?

 

[solid7]

 
So is cancer.
 
AFAIK, kelp has all of the micros the plants need. Azomite boasts 70 micros. What good are they if the plant only uses 15?

 
It's not such a black and white issue.  First, plants don't only use 15 micro-nutrients.  There exist many trace elements, which, while not essential, are considered beneficial - some more beneficial than others under specific circumstances.  And there is the issue of symbiosis, which isn't something a conventional gardener pays much attention to. (hence the earlier statement, "pointless for anyone who uses synthetic fertilizer")  I don't feed plants, I feed the fungii and microbes in the soil, which in turn, provide the plant with whatever it needs, in a very non-fussy way. 
 

 

[ColdSmoke]

 
It's not such a black and white issue.  First, plants don't only use 15 micro-nutrients.  There exist many trace elements, which, while not essential, are considered beneficial - some more beneficial than others under specific circumstances.  And there is the issue of symbiosis, which isn't something a conventional gardener pays much attention to. (hence the earlier statement, "pointless for anyone who uses synthetic fertilizer")  I don't feed plants, I feed the fungii and microbes in the soil, which in turn, provide the plant with whatever it needs, in a very non-fussy way. 
 

 
well said...This is exactly what I'm going for. 

 

[Myxlplyk]

 
It's not such a black and white issue.  First, plants don't only use 15 micro-nutrients.  There exist many trace elements, which, while not essential, are considered beneficial - some more beneficial than others under specific circumstances.  And there is the issue of symbiosis, which isn't something a conventional gardener pays much attention to. (hence the earlier statement, "pointless for anyone who uses synthetic fertilizer")  I don't feed plants, I feed the fungii and microbes in the soil, which in turn, provide the plant with whatever it needs, in a very non-fussy way. 
 

 
My mistake. There are 16 essential nutrients for plants.
 
While I agree that if you feed the soil, it feeds the plants, in turn. But whatever the soil is lacking, we help out by adding stuff... thus, we feed the plants. John Kohler sells azomite to feed plants, not the little critters. The critters, I believe, don't need 70 essential herbs and spices... at least not the ones that don't feed the plants. It's been shown, by Alberta dude and others, that azomite does nada. In fact, Alberta's data came up that it actually did MORE poorly than the control. It also came up that biochar did more poorly than control, which I can understand, IF he didn't make sure it was charged correctly. That is why I don't give too much credence to the guy. We see nothing but his results, and not necessarily how he prepared the test area.
 
I don't know enough about azomite to really give my opinion about it. I just know the gardening world is full of things created to separate you from your money. But having said that, I may do my own research on the subject.

 

[solid7]

 
My mistake. There are 16 essential nutrients for plants.
 
While I agree that if you feed the soil, it feeds the plants, in turn. But whatever the soil is lacking, we help out by adding stuff... thus, we feed the plants. John Kohler sells azomite to feed plants, not the little critters. The critters, I believe, don't need 70 essential herbs and spices... at least not the ones that don't feed the plants. It's been shown, by Alberta dude and others, that azomite does nada. In fact, Alberta's data came up that it actually did MORE poorly than the control. It also came up that biochar did more poorly than control, which I can understand, IF he didn't make sure it was charged correctly. That is why I don't give too much credence to the guy. We see nothing but his results, and not necessarily how he prepared the test area.
 
I don't know enough about azomite to really give my opinion about it. I just know the gardening world is full of things created to separate you from your money. But having said that, I may do my own research on the subject.

 
I will start by saying that I'm not a disciple of Azomite.  It is but one product out there.  I use it because it's easily available at a good price.  But I also diversify by adding other mineral aggregates, some of which are sold bulk, or under no particular brand name.
 
I won't speak for what others think they are doing.  Certainly, I can understand anybody's skepticism over the claims made by snake oil salesmen.  But soil mineralization is a very real thing, and there are dozens of universities and agricultural extension agencies who have published work, and continue research on the subject.  Everyone has a lifetime (or reasonably lengthy period of time) worth of personal investment, and/or financial motive for not wanting to consider new/different ideas - and as you rightly said, no shortage of people trying to make your money, their own.  People also become very dismissive about ideas which don't fit in their pail of orthodoxy.  I've been willing to experiment with any of the various organic methods, and I believe in this one.  Especially because I'm  still growing while most people have brought their plants inside for the winter, or said their farewells.  So I try to give my garden every advantage.  This is a labor of love for me, and everything that occupies my garden, has an ownership stake in it.
 
If you approach this subject from the standpoint of using the dust as a fertilizer, OK, case dismissed. (it's not)  But I disagree still with this "feeding the plant" notion.  I haven't been raising in containers for very long, but I've grown in-ground for a very long time.  In the last 2 years of container growing, I haven't (that I can recall) had any deficiencies that had to be diagnosed.  I didn't check PH one single time.  And I had plentiful harvests.  This year, I changed my rock dust strategy - as I spoke of earlier, creating a stratified substrate - and my results so far are very pleasing.   If my results get better with only changes that I  can easily point to, I have to conclude that there has been some benefit. 
 
In a conversation like this, it would be helpful to know what peoples' expectations actually are.  If you reply in this thread, what are your actual expectations of rock dust?  Do your expectations fit your actual strategy?

 

[Myxlplyk]

 
I will start by saying that I'm not a disciple of Azomite.  It is but one product out there.  I use it because it's easily available at a good price.  But I also diversify by adding other mineral aggregates, some of which are sold bulk, or under no particular brand name.
 
I won't speak for what others think they are doing.  Certainly, I can understand anybody's skepticism over the claims made by snake oil salesmen.  But soil mineralization is a very real thing, and there are dozens of universities and agricultural extension agencies who have published work, and continue research on the subject.  Everyone has a lifetime (or reasonably lengthy period of time) worth of personal investment, and/or financial motive for not wanting to consider new/different ideas - and as you rightly said, no shortage of people trying to make your money, their own.  People also become very dismissive about ideas which don't fit in their pail of orthodoxy.  I've been willing to experiment with any of the various organic methods, and I believe in this one.  Especially because I'm  still growing while most people have brought their plants inside for the winter, or said their farewells.  So I try to give my garden every advantage.  This is a labor of love for me, and everything that occupies my garden, has an ownership stake in it.
 
If you approach this subject from the standpoint of using the dust as a fertilizer, OK, case dismissed. (it's not)  But I disagree still with this "feeding the plant" notion.  I haven't been raising in containers for very long, but I've grown in-ground for a very long time.  In the last 2 years of container growing, I haven't (that I can recall) had any deficiencies that had to be diagnosed.  I didn't check PH one single time.  And I had plentiful harvests.  This year, I changed my rock dust strategy - as I spoke of earlier, creating a stratified substrate - and my results so far are very pleasing.   If my results get better with only changes that I  can easily point to, I have to conclude that there has been some benefit. 
 
In a conversation like this, it would be helpful to know what peoples' expectations actually are.  If you reply in this thread, what are your actual expectations of rock dust?  Do your expectations fit your actual strategy?

 
Rock dust is not in my plans at the moment, as I'm concentrating on biochar. If by doing research, I find that rock dust would benefit my garden, I'd gladly add it. I could see it and biochar being a good match.

 

[solid7]

 
Rock dust is not in my plans at the moment, as I'm concentrating on biochar. If by doing research, I find that rock dust would benefit my garden, I'd gladly add it. I could see it and biochar being a good match.

 
Yeah, that's good stuff, too.  I use that, as well.  I use that through the whole depth of the container. (nutrient banks)  I charge my biochar by adding layers in the bottom of my leachate collector under the worm bins.
 
You can use a bit of wood ash top dressed to help stratify your container mix, also.  Not so much that it makes a hard pan layer, but enough that it firms up a bit in the first inch or so.

 

[AaronTT]

Its the whole of the soil rather than the sum of its parts. Remineralization is a vital component.  A lot of things have to be right for the plant to be able to uptake those minerals. Soil ph, bacteria content, humus content, etc. Also, how much of each is very important. If certain minerals are too high in the soil than that can block uptake of others. Also, different gradients are important, not just super fine particles.
I personally use different types of rock dust to balance minerals, but I no longer use azomite. I think its not even close to others, but probably better than nothing. One of the biggest differences I noticed with using rock dusts is in the taste. I have had peppers grown hydroponically and with regular soil, and then had the same one grown in mineralized soil, and the taste difference is astounding. The others were very bland in comparison. The ones done in the mineralized soil were very delicious and full of flavor. I noticed the same with tomatoes, but that effect seems to be even more pronounced. I gave my wife a tomato I grew this way, and she said hands down it was the best tomato she ever had. I agree with her, as no tomatoes I grew compared to the ones with minerals. I have seen studies proving both higher brix levels, and higher yield. Anyone doubting go to this website and fish around, you will find some proof. They also have a great selection of rock dusts.
Rockdustlocal.com 

 

[solid7]

One of the biggest differences I noticed with using rock dusts is in the taste. I have had peppers grown hydroponically and with regular soil, and then had the same one grown in mineralized soil, and the taste difference is astounding.

 
To be honest, that isn't a fair comparison...  Hydroponically grown produce tastes like shit compared to almost any soil grown produce.  Hydroponics serves the purpose of producing lots of food, really fast, but it isn't the method you use for winning taste tests.