labels Sam & Oliver Stoke chipotle adobo sauce label critique

Sam & Oliver

Sam & Oliver

Looking for critique and feedback for my 2nd line of sauces being produced very soon... Stoke Chipotle adobo sauce
 
After crowd sourcing the first 2 names in a contest, I had to settle on Stoke since Smokin' and Ember were both taken... so Stoke it is.
 
stoke1.png

 
The bottle layout is for a 5oz glass woozy, black top with black shrink band.  The designer and I thought we should keep the same motif and layout design, with Stoke's heat ringing in at a medium level on the heat index.  It will look similar to this, printed on a 3.25 x 5.5" rounded-corner rectangular label in gloss with over-laminate
 
sam bottle.jpg

 
Thoughts on the design?
 
Here's Cinder for reference:
 
cinder1.png


Edit: now with less "WTF happened?" on the cinder label
 
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typo question- spelling of chiles? chillies? or peppers to keep it consistent with ingredients list?
 
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I am a strong believer in keeping the layout the same. It builds the brand and recognizability to your stuff. I'm doing as well as others on here. 
 
Not crazy about the name, Doesn't ring as 'appetizing' to my ears when I say it aloud.  Well, unless I said something like 'I am so 'stoked' for this sauce, dude!"  LOL. just playin.
 
you have a winner here!
 
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Sam & Oliver said:
I took the ingredient list verbatim from what Endorphin Farms sent me.  I'll use Chilies if it's a choice.
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actually, I was looking at the romance panel spelling.  I know all versions of chili/chile/chilli are acceptable around the world, but for most people in the US, chili is a soup, chile is a pepper, and chilli is everywhere else in the world.  :lol:
 
To me, "chilies" looks like it's misspelled.  KISS.  Don't confuse your customers with an oddball spelling.  Chiles and Peppers are pretty interchangeable to US consumers.  
 
I'd go with "chile" or......to keep it consistent with your ingredients list..."peppers".  Looking at the ingredients list, I'm assuming the chipotles are canned chipotle peppers and how that's spelled it straight of the chipotle can label.  I'd suggest keeping it consistent with the ingredients and use "peppers" in the romance wording. 
 
 
edit- typing as I'm looking at the label...  :lol:
 
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My only confusion is, is this a chipotle sauce, or an adobo sauce? Or is "adobo sauce" an ingredient in your Chipotle sauce? Or are you using canned Chipotles in adobo sauce as an ingredient?  The product description right on the front "chipotle adobo sauce" creates this confusion. 
 
Here's why: 
sku80860.jpg

 
Those are "chipotle peppers in adobo sauce". (A very common product that I grew up eating here in CA). 
 
OK, one more: you list "chipotle peppers" and "chipotle powder". Are you using both? If so, wouldn't the chipotle peppers be listed as a dried ingredient? Or are you sourcing freshly smoked Jalapenos (aka "chipotles")?
 
Or are they pulled from a can with the canned good maker's adobo poured right in?  (edited to add - I now notice the parenthetical on the ingredients list - is that why?)
 
Just never seen a "chipotle adobo sauce" before - it's a confusing description to someone like me.  I always took "adobo" to mean a sauce made from various spices (generally salt, vinegar, paprika and spices) used to rehydrate or preserve a pepper or meat - yet I don't see traditional adobo ingredients on your label. So I'm also wondering where the adobo comes from.
 
Sorry for my confusion - I'm old, I confuse easily. ;)
 
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so as someone who grew up in a place that rarely had jalapeno peppers in the supermarket, ...that's an interesting observation from LDHS.  From being the the chile-world I made the correlation that the sauce contained "chipotles in adobo sauce".  I don't know anything about adobo sauce, so maybe that might be the sticking point.
 
Chipotles are smoked jalapenos.  Often they are used in the can form aka "in adobo sauce"....and then there is chipotle powder....
 
 
What is a chipotle adobo sauce?  
 
 
 
now I'm off to google it!!!

edit- after a couple quick wiki- Jayt-ing.....  I can see where there could be some confusion. 
 
Are you making an ADOBO sauce?  Which would be really cool if you were.....
 
 
or just using "chipotles in adobo sauce"  for another sauce...aka...Stokes sauce...
 
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The canned chipotles IN adobo sauce is whole chipotles submerged in the sauce.

Chipotle adobo sauce is completely blended smooth. You can no longer separate the chipotles from the sauce and thus it becomes homoginous.

Chipotle powder was also added as a spice to strengthen the chipotle flavor.

The base is chipotles IN adobo sauce, diced butternut and goodies added. TLC added, then blended to a blissful smokey mouthfeel.

The result? Chipotle-Adobo sauce. I just didnt like the hyphen.
Here is what the chipotle-adobo looks like.

image.jpg
 
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Sam & Oliver said:
The result? Chipotle-Adobo sauce. I just didnt like the hyphen.
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Uh....
 
10413333_10152919304005340_8273115187356432336_n.jpg

 
 
Suggestion: do not try to invent a new product category. The general public will not get it, and you will spend way way way too much time trying to educate everyone as to what a "Chipotle adobo sauce" is. No one's ever heard of it before, and it's not their responsibility to know. 
 
KISS - Keep it Simple, Stu-well, you know the rest. If you're making a chipotle sauce, make a chipotle sauce. 
 
In my humble opinion you're putting yourself in a huge hole with this descriptor - and every time you go to sell it you'll have to dig yourself out by answering what a "chipotle adobo sauce" is. 
 
Good luck
:cheers: 
 
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Thoughts on this then (with a name change as well for the product line):
 
name change.PNG

 
Also: All the occurrences of the word "Peppers" are being changed to chiles (not sure where the extra "i" came in there, but spell check doesn't like the word 'chiles' it says it's misspelled), some ingredients on the list will be shortened to "spices" (checked first, got the thumbs up on that its less than 2% I can combine)
 
Trying to convey the following elements:
  • Smokey flavor (without being thought of as a liquid smoke or making something smokey)
  • Chipotle chile flavor
  • Adobo Sauce (the tomato based spice sauce the chiles were floating in was added as an ingredient together with the chipotles)
  • Sauce - the product is in sauce form, not a paste
 
When I think of the word stoke, I picture of the warm feeling and smells of a fireplace or campfire, when you put a fresh log on and poke the embers with a rod to get it to burn.  Exactly the feeling I get with this sauce, which was an underlying heat that is added as a sauce to sandwiches or as a steak sauce to entice heat, and bite after bite the heat rises.
 
I loved the artist's ideas of the campfire logs on this.  Stoke was my 3rd choice on this because the first 2 names were taken: Smokin' Chipotle was a fun name that kept coming up, but is used by a number of salsas and Ember went with the fire motif (cinder/ember) but was also already taken. You stoke a fire: This sauce stokes the heat. - just a quick back story.  I never once heard someone use the word stoke in that context referenced before.  After a quick Google for the term it appears to be surfer-speak for building excitement/anticpation?
 
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Sam & Oliver said:
Thoughts on this then (with a name change as well for the product line):
 
  • Smokey flavor (without being thought of as a liquid smoke or making something smokey)
 
 
Click to expand...
 
Safety tip: if you use the word "Smokey Chipotle" you will be sued by Chuck Evans of Montezuma's 
 
He has made a nice living suing companies and individuals, as he holds the trademark to "Smokey Chipotle" and any other spellings. 
 
On his company website he has a page dedicate to the cease & desist letter recipients and people he's sued: 
http://www.montezumabrand.com/Trademark%20Violators.htm
 
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GeminiCrow said:
I like chi'dobo 100x better!
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X2 - way better than "Stoke". 
Be careful with "Smokey" - that alone would be considered infringement in association with a chipotle sauce. I realize you're not saying "smokey chipotle", but Chuck Evans apparently coined the spelling of the word "smoky" as "smokey". 
 
Again - not my thing, just cautioning you based on stuff I've read & heard about Mr. Evans litigious nature and the origins of his naming convention. 
 
Calling it an "adobo sauce" is a bit of a misnomer. It's not really an adobo sauce - and would you want to not appeal to the HUGE market of consumers looking for Chipotle sauce? It's 1,000,000x more marketable as a Chipotle sauce - you just cannot call it a "smokey chipotle", or a "smoked chipotle" or a "smoky chipotle" or any other spelling using those two words in conjunction without getting a C&D letter.  
 
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Lucky Dog Hot Sauce said:
 
Safety tip: if you use the word "Smokey Chipotle" you will be sued by Chuck Evans of Montezuma's 
 
He has made a nice living suing companies and individuals, as he holds the trademark to "Smokey Chipotle" and any other spellings. 
 
On his company website he has a page dedicate to the cease & desist letter recipients and people he's sued: 
http://www.montezumabrand.com/Trademark%20Violators.htm
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What if it's not the title of the product but in the descriptor or romance panel?  One of the aspects of a chipotle is a smokiness?   The text in white is not part of my title of product.
 
eG: My product would be known as Stoke.  Or Chi'dobo.  the description of the sauce is in white.  "Chi'dobo?  What's that?  Oh it says here it's a smokey chipotle sauce" or the romance panel saying "Try this smokey chipotle sauce on freshly fried bald eagle eggs or clubbed seal heads.  Not trying to rock any boats just seems odd to not be able to describe a product with its own prominent features.
 
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Sam & Oliver said:
 
What if it's not the title of the product but in the descriptor or romance panel?  One of the aspects of a chipotle is a smokiness?   The text in white is not part of my title of product.
 
eG: My product would be known as Stoke.  Or Chi'dobo.  the description of the sauce is in white.  "Chi'dobo?  What's that?  Oh it says here it's a smokey chipotle sauce" or the romance panel saying "Try this smokey chipotle sauce on freshly fried bald eagle eggs or clubbed seal heads.  Not trying to rock any boats just seems odd to not be able to describe a product with its own prominent features.
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He will still pursue you. Check the link I posted. There is just about every instance and every combination and every spelling. 
 
You cannot use any combination of "smokey" and "chipotle" anywhere on the same product. he owns the trademark and he is highly defensive of it. 
He coined it. He TM'd it. He is one of the forefathers of the hot sauce industry. His was apparently the 1st chipotle sauce made commercially. 
 
He helped to write "the hot sauce bible". 
 
Check the link. Many others have tried. all have failed. 
 
If Kraft Foods lost, what chance do you have? 



Oh it says here it's a smokey chipotle sauce" or the romance panel saying "Try this smokey chipotle sauce
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100% TM infringement. You would lose. 
 
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I know. And the litigious nature makes my head spin, but would I be any less defensive of my proprietary TM if someone else tried to launch "A Lucky Dog Hot Sauce" or "The Lucky Dog Hot Sauce" or "Luckey Dog Hot Sauce" or "Lucky Dawg Hot Sauce"?
 
The answer is absolutely not - it is my intellectual property. There will only ever be 1 Lucky Dog Hot Sauce until I go out of business or die, whichever comes 1st. So I get it. Not always a fan of Chuck's charming personality on FB groups (he tends to be critical, blunt and harsh to newcomers) but I do not argue one bit with his right to defend his property. 
 
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