labels Sam & Oliver's Molten Gold BBQ sauce - new label critique

Sam & Oliver

Sam & Oliver

Bavarian Gold prototype 5-5.PNG

 
Here's some quick breakdown on how this label is similar but differs from the previous 2 product labels I have:
 
All labels will be on white rounded corner rectangles with glossy overlaminate and waterproof.
 
The label will be 3.25" tall by 9" wide.  Bavarian Gold will be printed with a 2rd color plate, unlike Cinder and Stoke, which used a single color and black.  This raises the cost of the label production slightly, since a 3rd plate must be created before the run is made.
 
The bottle chosen is a stout bottle that's 7" tall just like the 5oz Woozy bottle, but fatter, with a short neck by comparison.  I chose this, rather than the standard decanter style because it was unique, and on the shelf, the products are the same height, which helps in storage and creating a standardized height and look to the products if they are displayed in proximity, or on my booth display.
 
Bavarian Gold will feature the same heat index, at the same height and location as Cinder and Stoke, because it contains a re-formulated Cinder as an actual ingredient. (vinegar type was changed from distilled to match the recipe's predominant Cinder Vinegar base).
 
The challenge for this label is the inclusion of a 4th panel due to the width of the label.  Because the 5oz woozy labels are 5.5", this leaves an additional 3.5".  The 'front' was widened to 4" to not create such a large white 'frame' when viewed on a shelf from the front.  This leads to significantly more black on the front panel, which was adjusted to keep the same 'stripe logo' design for a consistent brand.
 
This product includes Coconut oil and Tamari sauce, which contains soybeans.  Both have to (by law) be printed below the ingredients list, which chews up an entire 2 line feeds of real estate.  The ingredient list, while relatively basic, have lots of sub-components, which prevented me from using the same Nutrition Panel as previous labels.
 
Left panel = Romance Panel
Center Panel = Brand/Logo/Graphics
Right Panel = Nutrition Panel/Ingredients/Allergens
Back Panel = Recipe
 
Things I'm still on the fence about:
Recipe suggesting pairing product with an alcoholic beverage (IPA) - this could potentially be on a shelf at a public grocery store.
Trying to find out if it's legal to declare the allergens as "Contains Coconut and Soybeans" rather than simply "Nuts, Soy"
 
/falls off soapbox
 
Thoughts?
 
Edit: stout bottle picture
5ef32c31c19372d4735d5a77f81bdbdd.jpg
 
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Knee-jerk:
 
1. For the allergen statement, don't mess around. List everything and spell it out. On Facebook I mock things like "Peanut Butter" (turns bottle around) "Warning: contains peanuts" - while redundant to the point of being ridiculous, if I sold a product that had a known allergen in it I might forego the label to have a giant red statement on the front. Those warning statements are there because someone, somewhere sued someone else and won at some point - you don't want to be the next person sued. Don't get cute. If the recommendation is to spell it all out as you have above, do it. Period. 
 
2. Parenthetical statements always turn me off as a consumer. I hate that I have to use one on my salt (infused salts required this) on one of my products, but it is what it is. Have you considered using mustard flour and other ingredients to add the mustard flavor from scratch? I would recommend doing to. It's a fun ingredient to work with, and you can develop a completely original profile this way. It's also much cheaper than buying someone else's mustard and using it as an ingredient in the sauce.  It's a weird looking ingredients list to me. Maybe it's just me. I'm just one guy. 
 
3. Nothing wrong with suggesting a recipe that has alcohol in it, so long as you are ok with losing 20-30% of your potential customers off the bat. A more generic recipe without alcohol would be all-inclusive, so if you are bent on incorporating a recipe onto the label itself I would suggest using one that doesn't have alcohol. You can always add *as an alternative, add 10 oz lager" or "for best results" (or whatever) to the bottom of the recipe. I dunno - it's a little iffy. Like i said, there's nothing wrong with having a recipe with beer in it, but you have to be ok knowing that you're excluding some people from making that recipe. 
 
4. I would be very careful in naming this product. I thought the name sounded familiar when I saw it and indeed, a quick google shows that it is copyright protected: 
 
© Bavarian Gold. All Rights Reserved.
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They're a beer company. Yes, I know it's "Sam & Oliver's Bavarian Gold" - but it's still got that in the name and that company could take issue with that. I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on television, but I would not name a product anything that is already copyrighted by someone else.  Totally your call, but I would strongly suggest finding a different name. 
 
5. I don't find the imagery aesthetically pleasing. I get the representation of the BBQ to go with your fire-related stuff, and it's a BBQ sauce. I get it. And it's yellow, because gold. Yeah - still not very attractive to me. We all have our tastes - this label art is not appealing to me in color or imagery. At a glance I didn't recognize that as a BBQ - had to read the sub-text, and thought, "oh - that's what it is". But BBQ's aren't yellow/gold. And why would a Bavarian sauce have a Mexican pepper like Chipotle in it? Did you call it Bavarian just because there's mustard? Kind of a weird name for a Chipotle BBQ sauce even if it does have mustard in it.  Or does it have chipotle? Maybe I'm off here - not sure which of your sauces is the chipotle one. When i think Bavarian I think beer & pretzels 1st, maybe mustard comes to mind, but not really.  I dunno man. Not feeling this one.  I'm sure a mustard BBQ sauce is a good combo - but the name doesn't fit. 
 
Ps - I see "natural smoke flavoring" - that's going to lose you a LOT of sales. People hate liquid smoke. I am asked several times every market what the smoke flavor in my sauces is from & I tell them I use smoked sea salt. Customer after customer has expressed their loathing of liquid smoke. And BBQ guys are downright obsessive with their hatred of it. 
 
Sorry this isn't more positive feedback - but it is honest at least? heh 
 
good luck. 
 
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Carolina Gold is a SC mustard BBQ sauce.

Is this playing on that? And if so how? Sorry, it is not evident. Maybe if it was a beer sauce. Bavaria is in Germany but I see Asian stuff in it.
 
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i swear i did a Google search and only found one obscure reference to a unregistered recipe for tea called Bavarian gold. not produced but was just called that after adding various thingbs to the tea.
 
i'll have to track that down and call them to see. I'm baffled how that didnt show before.
 
the formula is listed as provided from Endorphin Farms. the formula is finalized, i would have to reformulate the entire thing to make the ingredient list look pretty. i could keep this in mind for future tweaks. my biggest priority was all natural and gluten free.
 
irt: alcohol its not in the recipe. but it suggests pairing the pulled pork with an ipa
 
i've got two colors to work with on this label. i want it yellow and goldenrod because of the sauce color.  the sauce as it matures will also golden up a bit more as well once opened.
 
when i thinknof bbq i think of a grill. i know thats fighting words for enthusiasts but i chose bbq sauce instead of mop sauce, and i thought the grill would reflect that of a picnic or cookout. 
 
i'll try some other designs and see. i have production slotted for the 22nd so i have some time
 
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I think everyone knows a bbq sauce can be used as a mop sauce.
 
I'm not feeling the colors either, but maybe on the bottle it works.  Also not getting Bavarian at all.
 
 "taste the difference between good and great" leaves room for someone to think your bbq sauce is just "good".  Try something like "S&O BBQ Sauce makes good food great"
 
It bears checking but I'm pretty sure coconut is not a normal allergen and a coconut is not a Nut (legume).  My bbq contains butter which I call out as "butter (cream, salt)" and I still have to have "Contains Milk".  Also, why would you want to write out "contains coconut and soybeans" which takes up a lot of real estate when it can be shortened to "Contains soy, nuts" 
 
If the sauce is golden in color,  how about Southern Gold BBQ Sauce (eliminate Mustard in the name).

OK so there's a Southern Gold beer, but there still shouldn't be a conflict, and is much more relevant to BBQ sauce than Bavarian.
 
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I have to admit I didn't read ANY of the post, I posted on what I saw in the pic.

But that is the best way to get a reaction, because you won't be there to explain your decisions to your customers.
 
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Sam & Oliver said:
i swear i did a Google search and only found one obscure reference to a unregistered recipe for tea called Bavarian gold. not produced but was just called that after adding various thingbs to the tea.
 
i'll have to track that down and call them to see. I'm baffled how that didnt show before.
Click to expand...
 
1st link that came up was a beer company for me - I C&P'd the copyright statement from their website.  
 
http://bavariangoldbeer.com/
 
 
the formula is listed as provided from Endorphin Farms. the formula is finalized, i would have to reformulate the entire thing to make the ingredient list look pretty. i could keep this in mind for future tweaks. my biggest priority was all natural and gluten free
Click to expand...
 
I dunno man - I've reformulated things before. It''s not the end of the world - it's not about making it "look pretty" - it's about producing something that consumers won't scratch their heads when reading the ingredients statement. Sustainability is also important. What if the mustard company you're using changes their formula? Then your sauce changes too. And your labels. And your formula. I also had that thought about the hot sauce you're using as an ingredient - you create a very costly domino effect when you "stack" your products like that. If you change your hot sauce formula down the road, you'll have to change both products? Wow. That's really unnecessarily complicating things for yourself. And it will be 2X the cost and 2X the work if that happens.  
 
 
 
irt: alcohol its not in the recipe. but it suggests pairing the pulled pork with an ipa
Click to expand...
 
 
In that case it seems unnecessary. Far more relevant that you tell people how to pair *this* sauce - that inspires them to use more of it, which leads to more sales. Seems irrelevant to tell consumers what beer to drink with their BBQ - some might not like IPA - so your level of specificity might work against you there. Personally I'm a little sick of overly hopped IPAs, so were I to read that as a consumer I might think, "geez, I don't really like IPA - maybe I'll grab a different BBQ sauce".  And going general, like "drink beer with it!" is obvious to anyone who drinks beer. lol  - I'd lose that bit. 
 
 
i've got two colors to work with on this label. i want it yellow and goldenrod because of the sauce color.  the sauce as it matures will also golden up a bit more as well once opened.
 
when i thinknof bbq i think of a grill. i know thats fighting words for enthusiasts but i chose bbq sauce instead of mop sauce, and i thought the grill would reflect that of a picnic or cookout. 
 
i'll try some other designs and see. i have production slotted for the 22nd so i have some time
Click to expand...
 
Fair enough - of all my nits, this was the least significant. I just don't find the yellow very appealing for a food product. Maybe it looks better on the bottle with the sauce in it.  
 
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I have never bought a Carolina gold type sauce ever, and most BBQers use French's yellow as a first step in coating, then add rub. Cheap yellow mustard with no other flavors as a base/bonding agent.

Carolina gold is a regional sauce to central SC... so it may be a hard sell. Unless it is for hot dogs, burgers, and other things you put mustard on. Make it into a more universal mustard condiment. I love mustards and lots of mustard type sauces, but they have mass appeal. They are not strictly CG style BBQ sauces. They may taste good but I would never buy one just because they are so specific. Like an Alabama white sauce. It is a good sauce but how much can you sell outside of Alabama, and can you compete with the big boys from AL? Know what I mean?

PS. What is the Bavaria thing about??
 
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I thought you wanted all of your sauces to fit the fire theme? Cinder, Stoke, etc? 
 
Maybe "Golden Ember" or "Golden Fire"?  
 
Would avoid Golden Shower - I think that's already a thing. :rofl: 
The Hot Pepper said:
PS. What is the Bavaria thing about??
Click to expand...
 
Yeah - I'm hung up on that too. This is clearly not a German-style sauce, and the name very strongly implies such. 
 
"Bavarian Pretzels" are a thing
"Bavarian beer" is a thing
 
"Bavarian BBQ sauce" is going to confuse the hell out of people IMO.  I got hung up on that immediately. 
 
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Molten Gold is pretty good actually - catchy! 
 
And you could have a really cool image of a slab of ribs in grayscale with reflective gold sauce being poured over them to tie the name to the label image. 
 
That shit would pop. And it would be more clear what the sauce was and what you use it for. 
 
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Molten Gold
BBQ Sauce
 
 
 
Or  "Grilling Sauce"
 
 
(not mustard Sauce)
 
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Poo on you. I like mustard sauces. Grilling means for grilling. I like to use as condiments. Mustard sauce is more universal. Because a mustard style BBQ sauce imo is a hard sell.
 
How many CG sauces have YOU bought? Probably 0.
 
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Yellow mustard, vinegar, brown sugar, peppers and spices is CG-style.
 
Not sure what you make, but his seems to be a more gourmet CG sauce. It's pretty specific. I wouldn't buy one for hot dogs even though it may taste good. But I would buy a more universal mustard sauce.
 
Kinda like... a sushi sauce may be good on lots of stuff... but I wouldn't buy it for anything other than sushi unless I knew that. And I know what CG-style sauces are for.
 
Gold in the name combined with BBQ when it is a mustard sauce means CG-style to me.
 
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S&O's - remember that these are all just opinions.

Reading throught this I see that we're all guilty of being a little intense here. Sorry - I get excited about stuff & when my brain starts braining I just let the fingers go on the keyboard. All of those responding are passionate about sauces and labels more than most.

I didn't mean to sound harsh and if I did allow me to release a preemptive apologization. That's a word, right? :D

If you wanna name it Bavarian Gold, name it Bavarian Gold. Who am I to say what's best? Hell, I still get asked if my product is for hot dogs, or dog food.

Good luck with this product.
:cheers:
 
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