scovilles Scoville Testing?

[POTAWIE]

I think it was Cajohn's who sent in several samples once. They were sent in as seperate sauces and all got different SHU ratings but it turns out the samples were all the same

 

[DEFCON Creator]

You present an interesting case, DEFCON. Is there a chance the test might have been done wrong? (say, the technician forgot to add a zero, meaning it was actually 350,000 rather than 35,000). Were you given the concentrations of capsaicin, or the SHU equivalent without the HPLC report?

I read the Zero review from hotsauceblog.com, and he pointed out to a longer lasting burn...which made me think, from what I've read, that you may have had a higher concentration of dihydrocapsaicin, which may have thrown off the original estimate. (Sorry if I'm sounding nerdy. After reading the Complete Chile Pepper Book, I start to sounds liek that...they mention the same reason why some people believe some peppers to be hotter than others.)

I can imagine as a producer of sauces, it is an expensive undertaking to get the HPLC test done, only to be given a reading that might be completely innacurate makes it seem like a waste of money. Which is why I was curious as to whether or not they gave you the full HPLC report or a watered down version.

Even if the guy forgot a zero on the Zero, it would still fall way short of the actual number. It does have a slightly higher dihydro content, but the overall content of capsaicinoids is higher across the board (due to the method we use, no electrical machines or chemicals), so the number was completely off no matter how you look at it. It is expensive to have these tests done, which makes it even more of a waste of money. I do believe Potawie is correct regarding Cajohn sending in a bunch of the same samples and each of them coming out with completely different SHU ratings. I know of other manufacturers who have done the same thing and gotten the same across the chart SHU numbers. So, as you can see, the entire rating method currently used is about as accurate as a blind marksman.

We've done our own little tests at shows as well. People constantly ask how many SHU's are in our products, my usual response is, "Why don't you tell me". Well, in the course of a 3-day show, with literally thousands of guinea pigs, the numbers of SHU's the people give me are across the board, from way high to way low. This kind of experiment tells me no one really has a clue on exactly how many SHU's are in anything. Get rid of the numbers, and just classify the peppers, (i.e. an orange habanero is hotter than a cayenne, which is hotter than a jalapeno, etc.) that's really all the info you need.

 

[Aji Chombo]

That does sound logical...

Until people start wondering which is hotter: A orange habanero or a white habanero, or a chocolate habanero or a safi habanero or a tasmanian habanero...it all just becomes muddled...

We need more Scientists!

 

[Diabolus]

I just don't want to see people falling into the "Scoville Trap", where they will only buy products with stupidly high SHU rankings, and missing out on the flavor aspect of other sauces. There are an amazing amount of great products out there, from all sorts of different manufacturers, that taste great with the added pleasure of heat, but not the type of heat that forces you to shove a rocket pop up your butt to quell the burning in the morning.
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By the way, I like the Slayer, Reign in Blood avatar, defintely brings back memories. Blurry memories, but memories nonetheless.

I totally agree that flavor is the key. I myself don't like it when the burn is overpowering. Also it's nice to have people in the industry like yourself on the forum that can point out certain insider dealings. I had no idea the testing methodology was so flawed. That being said, I still can't wait to unleash the Trinidad Scorpion on some buddies who claim they can handle any amount of heat.

Cool to find another Slayer fan. I too have 25+ years of memories.

 

[DEFCON Creator]

That does sound logical...

Until people start wondering which is hotter: A orange habanero or a white habanero, or a chocolate habanero or a safi habanero or a tasmanian habanero...it all just becomes muddled...

We need more Scientists!

Well, if you put a bunch of people in a room, from hardcore chile addicts to newbies, I can almost guarantee that if they ranked each of the peppers in heat from 1-10, their results would not be the same. I personally love the sweetness of orange habaneros, but don't much care for other types of habaneros, it's a personal opinion. One reason we don't use the jolokia, besides them being stupidly expensive, is the fact I REALLY don't like the flavor of them, to me it's like the taste of a musty attic (if that makes any sense). Of course they're hot, I just don't like the flavor, so I won't use them.

I do see quite a cool trend (no pun intended) in the last couple of years, where many people are steering away from the crazy hot stuff, preferring to go with stuff that has flavor in addition to the heat. Chemical extracts virtually never taste good, no matter how hard you try to mask the bitter/mettalic flavor. You will always have the hardcore groups that will continue their quest for the hottest stuff available, but overall, I've noticed a lot more people, having blown their faces off numerous times over the years, are beginning to swerve into the flavor direction, away from the extreme mind-numbing heat. I love heat as much as the next guy, but it's nice to be able to serve guests at the house one dish with ample heat, as opposed to having to make 2 dishes, one for me, and one for everyone else. Less pots/pans to clean in the grand scheme.

 

[DEFCON Creator]

I totally agree that flavor is the key. I myself don't like it when the burn is overpowering. Also it's nice to have people in the industry like yourself on the forum that can point out certain insider dealings. I had no idea the testing methodology was so flawed. That being said, I still can't wait to unleash the Trinidad Scorpion on some buddies who claim they can handle any amount of heat.

Not a problem at all, it's nice to be able to share my experiences with others. Many don't see much of the behind the scenes stuff, so a little insight is a good thing. I gave up on the testing yars ago, after the 35k Zero idiocy. Hwoever, I too enjoy watching others writhe in ecstasy-laden blissful pain, mainly because they told me I couldn't hurt them. It's nice to be able to serve kryptonite to the testosterone-filled muscle heads, and then have them be the laughing stock of their friends within a matter of seconds. It truly makes my life worth living.

 

[Aji Chombo]

One reason we don't use the jolokia, besides them being stupidly expensive, is the fact I REALLY don't like the flavor of them, to me it's like the taste of a musty attic (if that makes any sense). Of course they're hot, I just don't like the flavor, so I won't use them.

I agree. I've got a bottle of 2012 at home, and while I like the heat, the Bhut taste is not as appealing to me, as say, the Naga (heat notwithsatnding)

I do see quite a cool trend (no pun intended) in the last couple of years, where many people are steering away from the crazy hot stuff, preferring to go with stuff that has flavor in addition to the heat. Chemical extracts virtually never taste good, no matter how hard you try to mask the bitter/mettalic flavor. You will always have the hardcore groups that will continue their quest for the hottest stuff available, but overall, I've noticed a lot more people, having blown their faces off numerous times over the years, are beginning to swerve into the flavor direction, away from the extreme mind-numbing heat. I love heat as much as the next guy, but it's nice to be able to serve guests at the house one dish with ample heat, as opposed to having to make 2 dishes, one for me, and one for everyone else. Less pots/pans to clean in the grand scheme.

I agree that the quest for 'fire' is getting a little out of hand. Once the chillies get hotter than humanly consumable, it's just an exercise in pain production and the subtlety of the flavour of the peppers goes out the window. My fav pepper is not a scorcher (Ring of Fire), I just like it because it has good flavour and a good kick to it.

Not a problem at all, it's nice to be able to share my experiences with others. Many don't see much of the behind the scenes stuff, so a little insight is a good thing. I gave up on the testing yars ago, after the 35k Zero idiocy. Hwoever, I too enjoy watching others writhe in ecstasy-laden blissful pain, mainly because they told me I couldn't hurt them. It's nice to be able to serve kryptonite to the testosterone-filled muscle heads, and then have them be the laughing stock of their friends within a matter of seconds. It truly makes my life worth living.

 

[Maligator]

I do see quite a cool trend (no pun intended) in the last couple of years, where many people are steering away from the crazy hot stuff, preferring to go with stuff that has flavor in addition to the heat. I love heat as much as the next guy, but it's nice to be able to serve guests at the house one dish with ample heat, as opposed to having to make 2 dishes, one for me, and one for everyone else.

I agree, I really enjoy the flavors that peppers bring to the food. Hence my grow list is a mix of various types. I have the super hots on there so that I may be able to spice up a dish w/o having to use 2 kilos of peppers to do it. Saw your cable TV interview, nice to be able to put a face to the man behind the Avatar.

 

[JayT]

If I had to venture a guess Creator, I would think your Zero is around 2 million Scovies. It has a similar heat to 2AM it just tastes a lot better.

 

[wheebz]

Why arent you at work?

 

[DEFCON Creator]

If I had to venture a guess Creator, I would think your Zero is around 2 million Scovies. It has a similar heat to 2AM it just tastes a lot better.

That's pretty much what we tell people. many say it's even hotter. All I know is the professionals tested it, and according to their multi-million dollar testing machines, it wasn't any hotter than a Cayenne pepper. Geez, I must be doing something wrong, NOT!

 

[JayT]

Why arent you at work?

I am fool. Bring me some of your wings.