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Seed prices confuse the hell out of me..

AJ Drew

AJ Drew

The business forum is for food, so I guess this goes here.  Seed pricing confuses the hell out of me.  Here is one example of what I mean:
 
$9.99 - 10 Carolina Reaper seeds from Baker's Peppers
 
$9.95 - 10 Carolina Reaper seeds from Pepper Joe

$6.00 - 10 Carolina Reaper Seeds by Puckerbutt
 
Considering the fact that Mr. Curry of Puckerbutt Pepper Company created the Carolina Reaper, how on earth would it be that other folk ask more money for its seeds?  If I buy Oreo brand Oreo cookies, I pay more than Great Value Look Alike Oreos. 

Is anyone else confused?
 
Also confusing are places that charge different amounts for different seeds.  I can understand it when it comes to some of the tiny peppers, especially wilds, which are a pain in the rear to cut the seeds out.  But for the most part, the cost of seeds is time and effort to grow, harvest, dry and process more than the cost of what ever the original seed was.  Not sure why one seed would cost more than another.
 
 
it's like dope. You got the guys that take the price hinke out on the consumer and the guys that eat the price hike for the sake of repeat customers.
 
Personally, in my opinion, two out of the three are not REPUTABLE vendors.
 
Ed has a good price.  Look here
 
http://pepperlover.com/pepper-seeds/heal-leve/world-hottest/reaper-detail
 
She's charging 4 bucks. 
 
IMO a good vendor is a good business person. Honors their word. If there is a problem there is a prompt response etc.
 
You got a good head on your shoulders AJ. Look at people who have good reviews, who are examples of principle in action and you'll find your answer.
 
Good luck bro!!!
 
ajdrew said:
The business forum is for food, so I guess this goes here.  Seed pricing confuses the hell out of me.  Here is one example of what I mean:
 
$9.99 - 10 Carolina Reaper seeds from Baker's Peppers
 
$9.95 - 10 Carolina Reaper seeds from Pepper Joe

$6.00 - 10 Carolina Reaper Seeds by Puckerbutt
 
Considering the fact that Mr. Curry of Puckerbutt Pepper Company created the Carolina Reaper, how on earth would it be that other folk ask more money for its seeds?  If I buy Oreo brand Oreo cookies, I pay more than Great Value Look Alike Oreos. 

Is anyone else confused?
 
Also confusing are places that charge different amounts for different seeds.  I can understand it when it comes to some of the tiny peppers, especially wilds, which are a pain in the rear to cut the seeds out.  But for the most part, the cost of seeds is time and effort to grow, harvest, dry and process more than the cost of what ever the original seed was.  Not sure why one seed would cost more than another.
 
Click to expand...
 
Maybe they make up 25% of his sales volume, and 1% of theirs?
 
They have to buy, warehouse, handle, repackage, track, ship ... he probably has to pack & ship ...
 
Seeds sales are like the checkout aisle at the grocery store w/ non-producers ... value adds ...
 
Sirex, that seems backwards.  I would think that people with good reputations could demand a higher price.  You are saying the two with the higher prices have the lower reputations.  This is getting more confusing as people comment.  Puckerbutt is like the BMW of Carolina Reaper seeds because they created it, best reputation.  I would think they would have the highest prices of the three.  Instead, of the three, Puckerbutt offers the best prices.

Imagine name brand medication or frozen dinners costing less than the generic versions.
 
D3monic, isolation is nothing difficult.  Some two by fours, screws and bridal cloth.  But selling seeds isn't really worth it if you are going to do it your self.  Now if you are big enough to have low wage employees doing the cutting and packaging for you, then I am sure there is money to be made.  I dont think I get minimum wage out of my efforts.  But it is something for winter sales and for when I cant get around much.  Something is better than nothing.
 
Grant, not sure I get what you are saying because Bakers and Pepper Joe are at about the same price.  Bakers grows and Pepper Joe does the buy sell thing.  Seems like who produces and who does not doesnt have much to do with it.  Then there is Puckerbutt, which both produces and resells.  Not sure about seed stock, but they do buy Carolina Reapers from other growers.
 
 
ajdrew said:
Sirex, that seems backwards.  I would think that people with good reputations could demand a higher price.  You are saying the two with the higher prices have the lower reputations.  This is getting more confusing as people comment.  Puckerbutt is like the BMW of Carolina Reaper seeds because they created it, best reputation.  I would think they would have the highest prices of the three.  Instead, of the three, Puckerbutt offers the best prices.

Imagine name brand medication or frozen dinners costing less than the generic versions.
 
D3monic, isolation is nothing difficult.  Some two by fours, screws and bridal cloth.  But selling seeds isn't really worth it if you are going to do it your self.  Now if you are big enough to have low wage employees doing the cutting and packaging for you, then I am sure there is money to be made.  I dont think I get minimum wage out of my efforts.  But it is something for winter sales and for when I cant get around much.  Something is better than nothing.
 
Grant, not sure I get what you are saying because Bakers and Pepper Joe are at about the same price.  Bakers grows and Pepper Joe does the buy sell thing.  Seems like who produces and who does not doesnt have much to do with it.  Then there is Puckerbutt, which both produces and resells.  Not sure about seed stock, but they do buy Carolina Reapers from other growers.
 
Click to expand...
 
yea but I give away thousands of seeds on the regular... so if i'm already doing it may as well earn a few bucks while i'm at it. 
 
D3Monic, yes absolutely!  If it is for the love of growing that you do what you do, then it only makes sense to sell seeds instead of giving them away for free.  First off, it isn't free to send someone free seeds.  So most folk ask that the receiver send a self addressed stamped padded envelope.  Well now, the receiver is paying for the padded envelope, the labeling, the postage, and the postage to get the thing to you.  If that is not the price of a pack of seeds, it is damn close.

By selling them, often the recipient is spending about as much money.  Maybe a little less, but more time.  Because you can buy those padded envelopes and other supplies in bulk, you earn the margin.  Same with the cost of shipping that envelope to you.  Now when you get orders for lots of packs, you earn some bier money.  But for the most part what you are doing is providing the same thing at about the same price but getting to keep the bier money.

Winds up making things easier on everyone and you get bier.  Do it.  If nothing else, you can make five bucks an hour for watching tv.
 
GA Growhead said:
Ed original sold his seeds for $9.99.
Before last season he and buckeye dropped all their prices down to $5.99/$6.
The other two didn't get the memo, or noticed, but just want to continue to rip the customer off for more money.
Click to expand...
 
^this -- the first year they were out Ed/joe/others involved in the "Carolina Reaper" tried to copyrite/patent the seed so that only those with signed contracts could sell them and thus figured he could charge a higher price (also sent several seed vendors threats to sue if they called them "Carolina Reapers" unless they signed papers and became an authorized reseller ) Not sure what the details were but that is why everyone selling them the first year or so sold at the same price since Joe and ED set the selling price that authorised sellers advertised.
 
Guess now that a few years have passed and they can no longer get everyone to do this as many growers are giving them away after they grow them there is no way to threaten them with lawsuits if they are not selling the seeds so now the price is dropping though it is still more than I'd pay ( I'd buy a SFRB for the $10 - $20) and use those seeds first.
 
Guess now that they are a few years older he is not trying to do that anymore
 
 
EDIT : THERE IS an interesting Thread about some of it HERE : http://thehotpepper.com/topic/46059-carolina-reaper-and-joe/?hl=%2Bcarolina+%2Breaper 
 
and a pic of the letter threat Joe was mailing out below  !!
 
Capture_zpsgtwq0daf.png
 
    AJ I am sorry for my highjacking your thread,It is not my place to decide how much you would like for your peppers.I suppose I was irritated with the crawling on a piece of cardboard (with a hip that needs replaced) to get the harvest started.Thats the way it is,Your first several pulls come from the bottom up.Not only that,i wanted my produce to have best chance possible to reach its fullest potential,Which investing in a dripline and getting a good organic feed system set up has done.I dont grow alot,I have a 10 hour a day Factory job.But what I do grow i feel has to be more valuable then the 2 for a dollar Bell Peppers at you local grocery.
   Again AJ,dont read to much in my not liking the including shipping 10$ boxes..It just gives the notion that our Pepper Hobby has no more risks or problems then yer Aunt growing her tomatoes she bought at the Hardware Store.
   Carry on AJ.
Pay no nevermind to me,
Cheers,\
Randy
'
 
GA Growhead, I sell across the board at $5.00 / 20 seeds but I doubt I am making minimum wage and I know I dont give myself health care.  I wonder if the higher prices do not reflect the cost of employees, healthcare, vacation, sick days, and things along those lines.  I do not disagree that some folk are out to line their pockets, but I can't really have an opinion on a particular business because I don't know what their expenses are.

It just -seems- like brand name, in this case Puckerbutt, would be worth more than the generic.  Not saying generic is bad.  I love me some Walmart Oreo knock offs and I purchase generic medication when ever possible.  Just that brand name usually fetches a better price.
 
JD Fan, wow this thread has gone in a strange direction and wow that letter is strange.  I had thought that Buckeye Peppers, Pepper Joe, and Puckerbutt were all on friendly enough terms to talk about things like this over pizza and bier.  Have much experience that tells me if people sit down without lawyers, much better resolve is usually had by all parties.  I kind of feel bad for everyone involved and hope if I ever get large enough that someone thinks I am stepping on their toes there will be pizza and bier involved in the resolve.
 
RandyP, speaking about stepping on toes I am sorry if I have stepped on yours.  I did a $10 / sfrb for my 50th birthday for the very reason I think you are saying you would not: pride.  In that case, while i do have pride in product the sale was about pride in self.  Spent much of the winter in the hospital, went septic for a bit, was given a 40% chance of going home, finally left with parts of my foot missing. I wanted the pride that comes with being capable of picking and packing 50 boxes on my 50th birthday. It was a way of telling myself that I have value.  It also taught me what not to expect from an employee cause oh damn that hurt.

Today, I put peppers on sale for $10.00 / SFRB when they come in faster than they are going out.  Its not a lack of pride thing.  I'd just rather someone enjoy them than let them go to rot.  Like you said, it is not about lining our pockets.  I figure you are like me, you love to grow.  Selling gives me an excuse to grow more.

If you want to trade pods, give me a PM any time before the frost.

 
 
ajdrew said:
JD Fan, wow this thread has gone in a strange direction and wow that letter is strange.  I had thought that Buckeye Peppers, Pepper Joe, and Puckerbutt were all on friendly enough terms to talk about things like this over pizza and bier.  Have much experience that tells me if people sit down without lawyers, much better resolve is usually had by all parties.  I kind of feel bad for everyone involved and hope if I ever get large enough that someone thinks I am stepping on their toes there will be pizza and bier involved in the resolve.
Click to expand...
 
 
Yeah it was a pretty interesting time when the reaper was going for the certification of "World's Hottest" and the first year of product availability -- Since Pepper Joe got involved and thought they might be able to make millions by controlling every reaper seed that was ever produced or sold commercially (even went so far as to have all vendors post notices that the crops grown from purchases from approved vendors could not be sold commercially by anyone other than certified approved vendors etc.) and the testing procedures they were using to get the "Hottest" Claim was a different test than had ever been used in the past (ie. using a batch of ground peppers to get the sample rather than a single pod - which brings up questions of does capsacian separate from the pod when ground and can the test material give an accurate representation of the heat of the individual pods or does how the sample is gathered (ie. let them sit and pull the speciman from a certain area of the mixture (top, bottom) to get higher results) etc. etc. etc.
Since the Scoville Scale was designed to test the heat of a single pod and provide a range of heat for various samples rather than a mean value and realizes the growing conditions and environment can change the heat level significantly it has never really been able to accurately tell what levels should be expected from anty grower under any specific growing conditions -- so testing one specific crop from one specific field in one specific season may not accurately measure the average heat level of the pepper the same as measuring one pod from say 10 growers throughout several regions of the country and averaging their results.
 
So there was a lot of discussion and controversy around the Reapers that had not existed before due to some individuals wanting to make it a profitable enterprise that they controlled and profited from, and it resulted in a lot of hurt feelings and feuding as would be expected when money and profit become major factors in an arena that had always been mostly a hobby.
 
Yep.
Anyone can sell anything, for any price they want.
But... Currie should always be a step ahead, since he created it, so his should be the highest price. The original.

Knockkoffs should be less, unless you can prove you added value for your own continued selections, that differentiate it from the original.

To not lower prices to compete with the original producer is kinda crazy business wise imo. The market always sets the price.

Most businesses will match sale prices of competitors, to make a sell. You should test those other guys to see if they will match Currie's price. That will show there true side.
 
In these days of Google and other Search engines to find things -- He who is spoken about the most (whether positive or negative) when it comes to a specific product is he who is listed at the top of the results --- and he who is listed at the top of the results is the most likely to get clicked on by those uninformed about the subject - and he who gets the click throughs usually gets more of the sales even if his prices are a bit higher than those who are harder to find !!
 
IE.
 
IF someone that hears about the newest "Hottest Pepper in the world is the "Carolina Reaper" and decides he wants to grow them decides to Google "Carolina Reaper seeds" if the entire first page of results leads to a specific vendor (even if most of the stories are critical) the unknowing searcher will most likely wind up on that vendors site and being unaware of others will most likely purchase from them instead of taking time to find a cheaper/better source !! So even if that vendors prices are higher than the originators since his results come up higher in the search results they can still get as many or more sales at a higher price since most buyers do not want to spend the time to do any research and just want to buy seeds to become part of the latest trend !
 
Yeah it is confusing. What's even more confusing to me is all the people paying $1 per seed.

Its not the prize winning bubblegum-kush-galactic-butt-hump strain. You know?

Edit : or the purple -peter-eater-ak47-white-crystal-widow
 
sirex said:
Yeah it is confusing. What's even more confusing to me is all the people paying $1 per seed.

Its not the prize winning bubblegum-kush-galactic-butt-hump strain. You know?

Edit : or the purple -peter-eater-ak47-white-crystal-widow
Click to expand...
 
LOL - I know what you mean especially when they can buy a pod for the same $1 and get 40 or more seeds from that prize winning bubblegum-kush-galactic-butt-hump pod.
 
moruga welder said:
my question would be : when does inflation affect the chili world ?      :onfire:
Click to expand...
When one of 3 things happen, 1) prices in general related to cost of production and living expenses rise high enough to which they have no other option but to raises prices. 2) the prices raised by others starts a chain reaction that causes others to follow, or possibly even 3) the available supplies of different vendors dry up, leaving very few choices(and they can see that). Might be more reasons I am not thinking of as well.
 
moruga welder said:
my question would be : when does inflation affect the chili world ?      :onfire:
Click to expand...
 
Shortly after the demand outpaces the supply - right now with everyone wanting to grow the hottest new pepper around but only a few actually being able to stand more than 1 tiny sliver of it and plants putting out dozens of pods the supply is outpacing the demand so prices are low, as suppliers try to keep from just throwing the excess pods in the trash.
 
JDFan said:
 
Shortly after the demand outpaces the supply - right now with everyone wanting to grow the hottest new pepper around but only a few actually being able to stand more than 1 tiny sliver of it and plants putting out dozens of pods the supply is outpacing the demand so prices are low, as suppliers try to keep from just throwing the excess pods in the trash.
Click to expand...
you got  that right ! i got more pods , powders , to last years !    :onfire:
 
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