• Do you need help identifying a 🌶?
    Is your plant suffering from an unknown issue? 🤧
    Then ask in Identification and Diagnosis.

seeds Sick seedlings

megamoo

megamoo

I have read so much on how to grow chillies from seeds so I should be able to do it by now... but apparently not.

There is a lot of information about yellowing leaves in plants so I don't really know what it could be. My hope is someone who has had this problem will be able to see it from the pictures and tell me.

Some info:
They were planted on the 6/6 and started to pop up a week later so they are now 5 to 6 weeks old.
I've been watering them lightly every day and I've started giving them a weak dose of chilli focus every second day.
I thought the problem might be pH nutrient lockout and I've tested the soil, the water and the water + nutrient mixture with three different pH testers, each crappier than the last. But they all returned the same results - 7 for soil and for water. Adding the nutrient brought it down slightly to 6.9 ish.
Does anyone think this is high enough to cause a problem. I have read that the ideal is 6.5 but also that 7 is ok.
I had thought that the problem is too high temp, because the leaves that dropped turned yellow then brown and then dropped, but I changed the conditions on the shelf where I have them and its no longer hot but the yellowing is continuing.
An important point I have just realised - Only the older potted up plants are displaying a problem. The younger seedlings which were germinated later are still in seed raising mix and have no yellowing at all. I potted them up into a mix of half budget potting mix and half perlite. So there might be too much nutrient in potting mix plus the nutrient feed and the problem is overdose?
Please look at the pictures and tell me what you think.

This is a Gold Cayenne and one of the worst affected seedlings. It has dropped about 4 sets of leaves. The first two pictures are the same shot with different camera flash settings.
sickseedlings005.jpg

sickseedlings006.jpg

sickseedlings007.jpg

sickseedlings008.jpg

sickseedlings009.jpg

It has only bent over recently because I moved it to the side of the lights.
 
more

This one has the same yellowing problem.
sickseedlings018.jpg

sickseedlings019.jpg

sickseedlings022.jpg


This has some curling leaves going on
sickseedlings021.jpg


This is a Trinidad Scorpion which has some purple tint to one leaf and maybe some bubbling of the leaves.
sickseedlings011.jpg



Another Trinidad Scorpion with leaves curling over.
sickseedlings013.jpg


The root zone. This looks the same in all my plants.
sickseedlings015.jpg

The roots are white and not rotting.
 
You are watering them too much. They like to be moist, but not wet. Back off the watering, and you should see improvement. Note the yellow leaves will not turn green, but your new growth will be fine.
 
Going to agree with Geeme since i had the same thing happen to some seedlings earlier on in the season. They were on the closer side of my grow trays and were always getting more water than the rest.

I'd also put a few little pinholes into the bottom/sides of those cups to quicken the wet/dry cycle.
 
Oy - YES - hope you have holes in the bottoms of those cups! I'd do more than pinholes, though. Made mine about 1/4 inch, but had the large beer cups (16 or 18 oz.) Your cups look to be smaller, so you might make the holes a tad smaller.
 
I drilled four holes in the bottom of each of the cups. I've been watering them a bit less than what it takes to leak out the bottom.

The soil in the cups isn't that wet at all, just moist, but I'll hold off on watering them for a while and see if it makes a difference.
 
I've found that the approach recommended to me works the best - when you top-water them, do so until the water runs out the holes, and then a bit more. This ensures the soil is fully saturated. Step 2 is to wait until they're fairly dry (but not bone dry) before watering them again. This is kind of a trick, because different varieties seem to uptake the water at different rates - some need more frequent watering than others. You will hear a lot of people say they wait until the leaves start to droop before watering again. I generally follow this, too, but it can be difficult with seedlings, as they usually can't tolerate it as well as slightly older plants.

The rate at which your soil dries out depends upon a number of factors - you're in Oz, so you are likely running the heater in your house right now, which can be drying. Plus, you should be running a fan on the plants from time to time (to prevent damping off), which also dries. Then, of course, there's the matter of how humid or dry the atmosphere is in your area. So you're going to have to do some experimenting to see how long you should go between watering, depending upon your local conditions. I'd recommend waiting 3 days between as a starting point, then adjust accordingly.
 
geeme said:
Oy - YES - hope you have holes in the bottoms of those cups! I'd do more than pinholes, though. Made mine about 1/4 inch, but had the large beer cups (16 or 18 oz.) Your cups look to be smaller, so you might make the holes a tad smaller.
Click to expand...
Ya, i had assumed he had the larger bottom holes already, and that some smaller side holes would "assist".
 
I agree with the peanut gallery, and also it's generally believed to not be a good idea to use clear containers because the roots do not like being exposed to light and could be damaged and/or won't grow to the edges as much.
 
Avon Barksdale said:
...... and also it's generally believed to not be a good idea to use clear containers because the roots do not like being exposed to light and could be damaged and/or won't grow to the edges as much.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily true. A pot is not absolutely needed for starting seeds. You can find a soil block maker on the internet - they compact soil into a cube, into which you put your seeds. The roots do grow to the edges, but don't go beyond, because of the combo of light and dry air (not just light.) Of course, this is only good up to a certain size of plant - trying to keep a large block from falling apart over time isn't practical, and typically not do-able. (Yes. I know someone who has used these successfully.)
 
I know you have been giving them chilli focus at a reduced rate, but aside from the overwatering possibly causing those issues they are displaying classic Nitrogen deficiency symptoms almost to the letter.

Nitrogen. The chlorotic symptoms (see Web Figure 5.1.D) shown by this leaf resulted from nitrogen deficiency. A light red cast can also be seen on the veins and petioles. Under nitrogen deficiency, the older mature leaves gradually change from their normal characteristic green appearance to a much paler green. As the deficiency progresses these older leaves become uniformly yellow (chlorotic). Leaves approach a yellowish white color under extreme deficiency. The young leaves at the top of the plant maintain a green but paler color and tend to become smaller in size. Branching is reduced in nitrogen deficient plants resulting in short, spindly plants. The yellowing in nitrogen deficiency is uniform over the entire leaf including the veins. However in some instances, an interveinal necrosis replaces the chlorosis commonly found in many plants. In some plants the underside of the leaves and/or the petioles and midribs develop traces of a reddish or purple color. In some plants this coloration can be quite bright. As the deficiency progresses, the older leaves also show more of a tendency to wilt under mild water stress and become senescent much earlier than usual. Recovery of deficient plants to applied nitrogen is immediate (days) and spectacular.
Click to expand...
 
i agree with everything thats been said. i dont give my seedlings any chili focus since my fox farms soil has pretty much everything they need till they get older, i do give them a little liquid karma and cal-mag with trace minerals every now and then.

oh and i dont water untill they are just about to wilt, i can feel the leaves and tell when they are about to wilt
 
Trippa said:
I know you have been giving them chilli focus at a reduced rate, but aside from the overwatering possibly causing those issues they are displaying classic Nitrogen deficiency symptoms almost to the letter.
Click to expand...

Nitrogen deficiency was the first thing that came to mind on seeing the yellow older leaves too. It matches right down to the purpling of the stems.

megamoo said:
Some info:
They were planted on the 6/6 and started to pop up a week later so they are now 5 to 6 weeks old.
I've been watering them lightly every day and I've started giving them a weak dose of chilli focus every second day.
I thought the problem might be pH nutrient lockout and I've tested the soil, the water and the water + nutrient mixture with three different pH testers, each crappier than the last. But they all returned the same results - 7 for soil and for water. Adding the nutrient brought it down slightly to 6.9 ish.
Does anyone think this is high enough to cause a problem. I have read that the ideal is 6.5 but also that 7 is ok.
Click to expand...

I wonder if it would be best to aim for a watering with a solution brought down to a pH of 6.5 given the soil pH of 7?
 
geeme said:
Not necessarily true. A pot is not absolutely needed for starting seeds. You can find a soil block maker on the internet - they compact soil into a cube, into which you put your seeds. The roots do grow to the edges, but don't go beyond, because of the combo of light and dry air (not just light.) Of course, this is only good up to a certain size of plant - trying to keep a large block from falling apart over time isn't practical, and typically not do-able. (Yes. I know someone who has used these successfully.)
Click to expand...

Well, that's why I said generally believed, most people don't think it's a good idea to have roots exposed to light but there doesn't seem to be much scientific information on it. Light damaging roots could be somewhat of an old wives' tale or overblown, but it isn't normal for chile plants' roots to be exposed to light in nature so why mess with clear containers when it's just as easy to use an opaque container? Light penetrating the cups also allows algae to grow too, so I wouldn't mess with them.
 
harry said:
Nitrogen deficiency was the first thing that came to mind on seeing the yellow older leaves too. It matches right down to the purpling of the stems.
Click to expand...
My guess is that the plants are too young, and that the entire pot hasn't been colonized with roots + he's already started with Chilifocus, for it to be a nitrogen deficiency.

Just my 2c anyway.
 
What soil are they in? Does the soil already have nutes? They look like too much water & too many nutes. 90% of the time, that seems to be the problem. People love their plants to death. Leave them alone for a while and they'll recover. Chiles grow fine in dirt all by themselves in the wild without anyone coming round to feed them or water them.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

I've put up a fan blowing across the plants which comes on and off on a timer, and I will not water them until they dry out and show signs of wilting. When I water them I will use tap water that has been left out because it has a slightly more acid pH.

Yes I know that transparent cups are not the best because of the possibility of light causing fungus on the roots. I haven't used cups before and didn't think about the clear plastic until I had potted up a few. :P The roots appear to be white and look ok so far. They have extended all through the pots. Won't do it next time. If I see a sign of root rot then I will cover all the cups.

I have read that same article on the signs of N deficiency and it definitely fits the bill but they also seem too young to me to suddenly experience it, especially with the nutes I've been giving them. Over watering and feeding is something that I definitely do! Loving the plants to death and trying to push them too fast.

Based one what everyone has said and what I've observed this is what I'm thinking is to blame now:

1. The soil I used to pot up was cheap and the packaging said in extremely vague language that it contained nutrients.
2. The newer seedlings in much smaller pots and still in good quality seed raising mix have been receiving all the same treatment as the sick ones and show NO yellowing. Their growth has now caught up to the older yellowing ones.
3. The sick plants' roots are really stretching through the pot to the bottom. They are searching for nutrients which they are obviously not getting from the top watering of chilli focus.

The problem is either the crappy soil I used to pot up or the plastic cups themselves. I believe that the soil was contaminated with an infection or has strong nutes in it. I have read that too much of one nutrient can prevent the uptake or others. So despite the presence of nitrogen in the soil the plants are unable to get it because something else is blocking. Anyway that is my theory.

I could do a detailed test of the soil - $$..... Or I can just chuck the soil and get some good stuff.
 
Ok so I'm guessing there is something wrong with my Cayenne's cause they have very purple stems. Should I start using distilled water??
http://s493.photobucket.com/albums/rr294/ourfadedglory/?action=view&current=photo1.jpg
 
They look fine to me as well. Someone may correct me but I think purple stems are a result of a sun tan, its nothing to worry about. I have some Aji Lemon pods which are all dark on the sunny side and yellow underneath, and that is with the weak winter sun.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top