• Do you need help identifying a 🌶?
    Is your plant suffering from an unknown issue? 🤧
    Then ask in Identification and Diagnosis.

Since the Moruga will be the next "big" one for a moment...

mrz1988 said:
Yes. 100 times yes. But they are similar because one is probably a cross from the other, or there was a bit of genetic drift and the two strains grew apart (although this is a bit more unlikely). The island is just too small to say that they are two completely unique chilies.
Click to expand...

Maybe at one time the two crossed but for them to be considered different landrace chile they likely crossed (or drifted) many many years ago which would make them different chiles now although still with similarities. I just have a problem with "A 7 pot is a type of scorpion and vice versa." They are most likely very closely related but I consider them different and find they taste and grow differently
There are several other Trinidad landrace chiles that nobody ever talks about but I guess thats because they aren't super-hots
 
Hold on a sec. I don't want to start any trouble but something isn't copacetic here. Cappy says Jim has asked for samples of I assume the 7 Pot Brain Strain. mrz1988 says Jim Duffy (I'm assuming "he" means Jim Duffy), has never requested samples from anyone, because there isn't any significant difference between the two peppers and according to mrz1988 Jim Duffy, (again assuming) has advised the CPI they don't need any samples of the 7 Pot Brain Strain because of that.

mrz1988 are you speaking on behalf of Jim Duffy or are you repeating what he told you? What makes Jim Duffy the expert when it comes to the 7 Pot Brain Strain and the TS Morouga Blend? I'm not belittling anyone here, I'm just asking what the man's credentials are. I hope he, Jim again, can spare some time to answer for himself.

mrz1988 you want to provide samples of each pod for genetic testing. Cool. Where or who are going to get seeds from? How do can you be 100% sure they're true?

Who and what do we believe? Damn it! I don't expect everyone to agree with everything here. But to have one person say one thing and another come along and say the exact opposite is so freaking frustrating it pisses me off. I know it's only peppers right? Bull

AGAIN I AM NOT GETTING ON ANYONES CASE and please don't anyone get defensive.
 
Habanero500 said:
I am sorry to say this but I grew both side by side and there is no discernable difference in pod shape size or texture and amount of placental tissue is the same. As far as one being nuclear and the other not that can only be proven by a lab not by someones mouth. Everyone has a different metabolism and what you eat that day and the PH of your saliva that day can affect if something is hotter or not. Cappy if you want to prove me wrong send me your Brain Strain samples dried or fresh and I will have the Chile Pepper Institute run a DNA test. My e mail rfire@cox.net
Click to expand...

Thanks patrick here is Jim's reply in the Brain Strain vs TS Morouga thread. Funny, seems he had the 7 Pod Brain Strain genetics all along and did not include them in the study, or did he?
 
Habanero500 said:
First of all I stand corrected on the older Bhut Jolokia test statement I made last year. That info was given to me by someone I once trusted who is in the industry. This person also told me never to trust CPI. And I am glad I trusted Cajohn Hard and gave them my seeds for this study. First of all I did give them Butch T seeds but I never labeled them that. I won't argue with any of you but I grew out Butch T from Neal and Judy along side Ronnies Scorpions he got from Sarah and had thousands of plants and could not see a difference. So all seeds I sent to institute that represented Scorpion were just labeled Trinidad Scorpion. Now the Chocolate 7 Pot they mention was Douglah. I got my Douglah seeds from Neal and Semillas. The Moruga Scorpion I obtained from Jukka 3 yrs ago and Jukka got them from Cmpman (Chris). My 7 Pot Jonah were the red 7 Pot variety they tested which was also from Neal from 3 yrs ago. Now I never created anything new so if someone says that its BS. All I did the lst 3-4 yrs with these varieties is isolate, overwinter and save seeds from best pods and plants which is what most of you do. The other seeds grown out we're scorpions from Cardi and Bhuts from Institute. Two facts. They don't do anything to stress the plants. They water and feed in a clay soil field just like their green chiles. Also they did not take small samples. Samples were 20-25 pods from single plants. Want more details then wait for complete study to come out in Hort Science Magazine.
Click to expand...

...and here is his expert opinion on the Butch T are just regular Scorpions and didn't need labeling as such. He also said no discernable difference in pod shape size or texture and amount of placental tissue between the Brain Strain vs TS Morouga. We cannot blame the CPI they did a fantastic job they were just duped by a single grower and his labeling of seed. If it looks like poop and smells like poop, it's poop.
 
mrz1988 said:
Jim and the CPI are not antagonizing you. He just hasn't noted a significant difference in pod shape, taste, heat, or placental tissue between the Brain and the TSMB and so has advised the CPI that they are the same strain I believe. He never requested samples from anyone, just claimed that the testing can be done if necessary. I want to provide those samples so we can put this nonsense to rest and get a better answer.
Click to expand...

mrz1988, I read the quote by Jim Duffy that said he didn't note any sig difference between the 7 Pot BS and the TS Morouga Blend. I didn't see where he said he advised the CPI they were the same, can you show me the quote? Plus if you look at one of the quotes from habanero500 that Cappy posted you'll see the he did tell cappy he could provide some samples.

Can anyone provide samples to CPI? I'd be happy to grow both. A couple of the TSMB seeds that I started this season came from Chris a couple of years back and I get new 7 Pot Brain Strain seeds from Cappy every year. I would love to get involved with this.

Here's a photo of a TSMB I grew from those seeds a couple of years ago.

IMG_6580cre.jpg


Here's the one I got the following year. Yep, the one.

IMG_5837re.jpg
 
Sorry for taking so long to get back.

Jim sent CPI the seeds for their newest testing I believe. He did not select the Brain Strain for the new testing. I don't know exactly what the conversation went like but I would assume that the reasoning for not using the Brain Strain in this testing was that he did not have reason to believe they are unique strains. I know Jim has grown the Brain Strain before, so I was saying that Jim didn't request samples for DNA testing from me. He may have requested them from Cappy because he has the original strain.

The seeds from the CPI testing for the TSMB originated from Jukka (fataliiseeds.net) who got them from our very own Chris. He has said this somewhere on this forum. I got seeds from Jukka as well and I am growing them in their second year this year. I cannot confirm 100% that they grew true but I have no reason to believe they were hybrids. You can see a pic of the pods I grew in my avatar.

My Brain Strain seeds are from Judy (pepperlover.com) and I believe she got them from Cappy?? So assuming that if it grows true it SHOULD be the same genetics as the original BS. If you would rather provide your own samples from more original seeds, please do. I was just going to because I wasn't sure anyone else was willing. I'm pretty convinced that the Brain Strain and TSMB are both a mutation of the original 7 pot coming from an activation of the same recessive gene. The TSMB might have more scorpion genetics than the BS but I can't confirm this it's all speculation. A lot of genetics coming out of Trinidad are hybrids or mutants anyway because we're always looking for something interesting, which they seem to have. Jim Duffy's test was purely qualitative.


As far as whether or not they are the same strain, neither I nor Jim Duffy can say for sure. We will have to wait and see. Sorry if I misled anyone.
 
I know I can see the difference between the original Butch T scorpion I grow and all the other scorpions I've grown usually by looks, heat, and flavor. Not sure why they'd lump them all in as one.
Can't really comment on the TSMB vs. Brainstrain although the pic in the article looks like it has a tail on it. Isn't that more TSMB like?
 
The reason I believe my contact had the variety name Trinidad Scorpion Morouga Blend correct is because the same year they also sent me the CARDI Trinidad Scorpion seeds that completely mirror the picture posted here. I still have that pack too. I was told the TS Morouga Blend was a 'project' they were working on.

Chris

megamastger71 said:
The real name is that using jim duffy

and that he also used Chris ... and that we used in so many since 2007/2008

and that is trinidad scorpion morouga or morouga blend

then it is called differently in subsequent years

imho they are the same strains ... taking different forms, which then tries to stabilize

This has made ​​the CARDI ... those with the tip called them Scorpion those not called them 7 pod

enough to see the original photos of CARDI

7 pod

cardi.jpg


Trinidad scorpion

cardi%201.JPG


© Herman Adams, CARDI



over time, work began stabilization of different varieties .... and the differentiating element is always the presence of the tip
Click to expand...

Look familiar?

P1050234.jpg
 
Thank you Chris for your understanding and background info on the TS Morouga Blend. I believe Jim acquired the Brain Strain from Candice of Wildfire Chilli as we have had numerous pm's about the seed I shared with her in a mixed packet of 7 Pod seed several years ago. Jim Duffy and Candice are good friend but in my last pm with her she states that she has not shared the seed with anybody per my request. But at the same time she tell of Jim persuading her what she is growing is really TS Morouga. If you watch the Martha Stewart show last year with Dave De Witt it shows a New Mexico Scorpion on live tv that looks a lot like TS Morouga/Brain Strain. He tried for the record books last year with the same pepper. This year he just renames it TS Moruga in another quest for the record book so nobody thinks he is just making up a new name with slightly changed spelling. We all know what he is pushing is a 7 Pot no matter what he wants to call it. Here is what Candice is selling as Brain Strain/Moruga Scorpion from her website.

http://wildfirechill...lies-128-3.html
 
So Candace is comfortable calling it both.

With the pods I've grown it seems the 7 Pot Brain Strain had more of a tail and the TSMB had a deeper indentation on the bottom.


mrz1988 said:
Sorry for taking so long to get back.

Jim sent CPI the seeds for their newest testing I believe. He did not select the Brain Strain for the new testing. I don't know exactly what the conversation went like but I would assume that the reasoning for not using the Brain Strain in this testing was that he did not have reason to believe they are unique strains. I know Jim has grown the Brain Strain before, so I was saying that Jim didn't request samples for DNA testing from me. He may have requested them from Cappy because he has the original strain.
Click to expand...

This is how "misunderstandings" get started. People speaking on other people's behalf. Do the site a favor and say what you know, not what you assume or believe was said.
 
This is not about money this is about getting the right scientific name for the pepper that was tested at CPI. A 7 Pot cannot be called "Moruga Scorpion" in the history of peppers we need to make this right. Jim Duffy and his Moruga is a big sham and CPI needs to correct the classification of this pepper as a 7 Pod Brain SR with proper credit to Sara. He has done more harm to our hobby with his deceptive naming and needs to be stopped. Do not trust Jim Duffy.
 
PRF, are you sure Sara would want her address publicly displayed here? I would double-check. Given CARDI tried to protect their creations, it may not be good to tell them exactly who sent it. That's why I didn't mention the name of the person from Tobago. I'm not sure they would want me to. Perhaps referencing Sara in your message would be enough as most here were/are familiar with her anyways. Just a suggestion.

Chris
 
-Jim has grown the Brain Strain
-Jim did a qualitative comparison and said he saw no difference between the Brain Strain and the TSMB
-Jim sent the CPI the seeds for the new testing
-Jim did not send the CPI Brain Strain seeds
-I do not know where Jim got his Brain Strain seeds

Sorry if my weak terminology confused you but I was summarizing what was said for everyone else. Citations are available if you really want them. I think you misunderstood me the first time in what I was saying. If you really want to know what went on in the discussion for using the Brain Strain you can ask Jim Duffy or Paul Bosland as they obviously know more about what went on than I. But we do know that Jim sent CPI the seeds, Jim sent them the TSMB, and Jim doesn't think that the Brain Strain is anything unique. Logic tells us that he influenced the CPIs decision of which pods to use and therefore the lack of testing the BraIn Strain. That's what I was trying to get at.
 
I think Cappy's point is that if he(Jim) found no difference in all the scorpions(Most of us see, taste obvious differences)) and sent all types in as 1, and he found no difference between the TSMB and the BrainStain then he may have sent in BrainStrain and TSMB for testing as 1. The key word however is MAY, and I don't believe in accusations without at least a littl proof :)
 
But why should call 7 pod "brain strain"?

who decreed it? ...

my pepper came out in your same year (2008), from seeds sent from Italy in 2007 from Chris as "Trinidad scorpion morouga"

2007 ... A YEAR BEFORE YOUR PLANTS AND YOUR NAME BRAIN STRAIN


and mine pod is identical to your ... and I never received seeds from you ...

morouga.jpg


For me there is no brain strain diversity ... but only the type of roughness type brain ... in some trinidad pepper

I think that Mr. Duffy was right to do what ...

and are not correct your accusations

I find it absurd that in this thread do not speak for the record and all that derives from it, but of your absurd claims
chose the name used for the first
otherwise tomorrow I call megamaster trinidad and go get tested ... and pretend that name :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top