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soil Soil Advise

Craiggger

Craiggger

Hey all.

I'm am daydreaming about my backyard pepper bed, specifically about the soil.

Last year went terribly. I had " triple mix" delivered and I put that into the bed; its about 5' x 20' and 3 feet deep. The soil was sandy and didn't hold moisture well. The peppers were basically stunted and developed disease on the leafs.

I read on here last year that changing or adding to the soil was to be done well before the planting season as to let me microbes settle. So I added 5 bags of sheep manure and worked it in once the first frost hit.

So its only January and I will have to wait till may or June to plant out but I would really appreciate some advise as to what to add once the soil becomes workable again in march or April.

From my reading on here, some perlite would be good.

I'm still unsure about a lot of things like coca coir and or peat, teas and lime and calcium (I can get lots of eggshells).
Worm casings too!

Thanks,
 
If its already got lots of sand in it, then IMO perlite is not really what you need. Perlite would increase drainage making it hold even less water. Perlite does help keep the soil light and aeriated though. If its got that much sand in it, then you need organic matter. Sand (and perlite) does not hold nutrients well, and it does not break down to provide nutrients.
 
Personally I would add lots of compost, maybe some pumice &/or bark to lighten the mix up a bit & create some space for air, & some dolomite lime to stablise the PH.
 
I would not add peat, or coco-coir. Im imagining you have some quite compacted growing medium, with not much natural nutrients if it has as much sand in it as you say it does. Peat would make it more compacted and still not add much nutrients. 
 
IMO you need to add aeriation to the soil, and add more quality organic matter that will hold moisture, is capable of holding onto fertliser if you use it, and can break down to provide nutrients.
If you have issues with soil drying out you can add some vermiculite which absorbs & holds moisture, and is good at holding onto nutrients from fertilizers etc. 
 
So to summarize, I would throw a whole heap of compost & manure in there to provide a good amount of organic material, then would add enough pumice so that the mixture is not too heavy and drains well, then I would top it off with some dolomite lime to ensure the PH dosent go anywhere funny from all the amendments.
 
I have the worst soil one could ask for.  Pure yellow clay.  Last year all I did was dig my holes for plants with post hole digger about 6-8" diameter and 1.5 - 2 ft deep.  Then put a mix of about 50% peat 25%top soil and 25% composted manure, with a little bit of perlite into the holes.  Then at plant time put in a tablespoon each of jobes organinc tomato fert., bonemeal and gypsum.  End of year most of my peppers were 4-5ft with my tallest being almost 7ft.  In years past I rarely saw over 3ft.  Not sure if it was the mixture or the mild wet summer, but unlike most people I really hope my plants are a little smaller this year and more manageable.  I spent a lot of time last spring researching on here too, and then just took some of the mix ideas and simplified and it worked great for me.
 
I agree with nzchili. Especially if it is an in-ground bed. Just amend it with plenty of compost and organic materials. perhaps some chicken poo (my dad swears by chicken poo for hotter chilies), neem meal, kelp meal, crab meal. Keep in mind that besides the compost, you will want to wait a few weeks after adding amendments before you plant out. I would do the amending about a month before you transplant the plants.
 
twilliams386 said:
Based on what I've read, peat moss would do you good. I imagine the manure will help as well.
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OK sounds good. What kind of ratio am I looking at to say, 3 yards worth of crap soil, and 5 bags of manure?
nzchili said:
If its already got lots of sand in it, then IMO perlite is not really what you need. Perlite would increase drainage making it hold even less water. Perlite does help keep the soil light and aeriated though. If its got that much sand in it, then you need organic matter. Sand (and perlite) does not hold nutrients well, and it does not break down to provide nutrients.
 
Personally I would add lots of compost, maybe some pumice &/or bark to lighten the mix up a bit & create some space for air, & some dolomite lime to stablise the PH.
 
I would not add peat, or coco-coir. Im imagining you have some quite compacted growing medium, with not much natural nutrients if it has as much sand in it as you say it does. Peat would make it more compacted and still not add much nutrients. 
 
IMO you need to add aeriation to the soil, and add more quality organic matter that will hold moisture, is capable of holding onto fertliser if you use it, and can break down to provide nutrients.
If you have issues with soil drying out you can add some vermiculite which absorbs & holds moisture, and is good at holding onto nutrients from fertilizers etc. 
 
So to summarize, I would throw a whole heap of compost & manure in there to provide a good amount of organic material, then would add enough pumice so that the mixture is not too heavy and drains well, then I would top it off with some dolomite lime to ensure the PH dosent go anywhere funny from all the amendments.
Click to expand...
Another great answer. Thank you. How much dolomite am I looking at. I'm not sure of the normal amount to add to a bed my size.

Also, I was told to compact soil when I filled the bed. I didn't. Should have I done so?
jcw10tc said:
I have the worst soil one could ask for.  Pure yellow clay.  Last year all I did was dig my holes for plants with post hole digger about 6-8" diameter and 1.5 - 2 ft deep.  Then put a mix of about 50% peat 25%top soil and 25% composted manure, with a little bit of perlite into the holes.  Then at plant time put in a tablespoon each of jobes organinc tomato fert., bonemeal and gypsum.  End of year most of my peppers were 4-5ft with my tallest being almost 7ft.  In years past I rarely saw over 3ft.  Not sure if it was the mixture or the mild wet summer, but unlike most people I really hope my plants are a little smaller this year and more manageable.  I spent a lot of time last spring researching on here too, and then just took some of the mix ideas and simplified and it worked great for me.
Click to expand...
Thats great to hear! I also have a clay bottom. I am contemplating making my bed another 4" higher by adding another 4x4 to the top. Is clay that detrimental ? Thanks for your reply!
filmost said:
I agree with nzchili. Especially if it is an in-ground bed. Just amend it with plenty of compost and organic materials. perhaps some chicken poo (my dad swears by chicken poo for hotter chilies), neem meal, kelp meal, crab meal. Keep in mind that besides the compost, you will want to wait a few weeks after adding amendments before you plant out. I would do the amending about a month before you transplant the plants.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I will follow your amendment advise. I have a source for chicken crap too! Good luck this year.
 
NZChili's advice is rock solid there.
 
Just to echo what others are saying I would add lots of compost. Ideally about 50% of your mix would be compost and a good handful of dolomite lime to prevent acidity as all the organic matter breaks down.  That alone will make a huge difference and if you are feeling fancy maybe mix through some blood and bone meal and fertilize with fish hydrolysate a few months before plant out.  Fish hydrolysate seems to attract lots of worms which will mix your soil and improve its structure..
 
Don't compact your soil.  Regarding dolomite I use a closed handful, approx -4oz, per 10 gallons organic matter.
 
Robisburning said:
NZChili's advice is rock solid there.
 
Just to echo what others are saying I would add lots of compost. Ideally about 50% of your mix would be compost and a good handful of dolomite lime to prevent acidity as all the organic matter breaks down.  That alone will make a huge difference and if you are feeling fancy maybe mix through some blood and bone meal and fertilize with fish hydrolysate a few months before plant out.  Fish hydrolysate seems to attract lots of worms which will mix your soil and improve its structure..
 
Don't compact your soil.  Regarding dolomite I use a closed handful, approx -4oz, per 10 gallons organic matter.
Click to expand...
Your advise ain't too shabby!

Regarding dolmite, a handful is recommended. Should I be buying a soil pH tester and slowly reach neutral or winging it with the dolomite considered normal?
 
Your advise ain't too shabby!

Regarding dolmite, a handful is recommended. Should I be buying a soil pH tester and slowly reach neutral or winging it with the dolomite considered normal?

I'm not familiar with using dolomite, but I will say that if you aren't using any knowingly acidic material (peat), then I would hold on the liming until you check your ph.

That said ph isn't quite as important in soil. Keeping it in the right range is best, no doubt. But their is plenty of buffer from the organic material incase you are off a tad. Feed your soil (microbes) and they'll feed your plants.
 
Dolomite lime in excess will only lead to a pH of 7.  Your soil will get more acidic eventually with the addition of organic matter so some amount will help that.  I would just chuck it in in the ratios described.
 
Even though the pH won't suffer, excess dolomite lime will lead to excess magnesium and calcium in the soil which may lead to other issues.
 
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