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The 2M TSMB: Interpreting the results
- Thread starter mrz1988
- Start date
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I don't think the test would have any credibility because multiple growers are used. There is too much room for error. The tests would be meaningless. I care more about the genetics than the heat levels though. There doesn't seem to be much data on pepper traits and genetics.
Edit: If you want to do this, then passing out the same seeds to the growers would help with human errors.
Edit: If you want to do this, then passing out the same seeds to the growers would help with human errors.
The best test is probably to eat them, lol. Science misses out on how capsaicin is experienced. Certainly not an objective test but maybe chile heat isn't objective
. Some capsinoids probably affect different taste buds differently. If that's true, then which pepper is the hottest varies depending on the individual.
yeah, I was figuring that short of being able to actually contain and get as much of a controlled growing environment as possible.. it would be fun to just see if given some of the hottest peppers on here based on taste tests... to see how how they actually are.. if you went with the way of actually controlling it from a few different people... even then it is not very reliable.. sure it's a little more reliable, but not much, which is why I figured getting more of a "general" idea of how hot they are.. by possible mixing bunches of peppers, instead of individual peppers, from each grower (same strain btw, just a few peppers of each, not individual peppers for each test) and you should be able to.... hmm, I just realized the flaw lol.. it's measuring how much is in each pepper. .so that wouldn't work..
BUT actually, if you set a standardized test of mass of powder of each strain of pepper that might even things out a little bit.. I just realized that if you get peppers that are larger they might just have more capsaicin than a smaller pepper of the same strain.. and again, it's not very reliable.. none of it is, even doing individual peppers isn't that great, unless, like said a bunch of times before.. you get an absolutely massive sample size.. but that just costs sooo much money.. but I would say start with trying to get samples from people, a few peppers of each strain that could be tested.. see how many you have (and if you can get the $3 for each pepper or something close to that, then good) and you might actually be able to replicate the testing, somewhat.. but even if we didn't get super controlled environments, which might be more of a pain than it's worth (because your always going to have variables) then at the very least it would be cool to see the different heat levels within the strains from different parts of the country/world.. that in itself is pretty cool.. would be able to see if those hot and humid environments really do produce stupid hot peppers, more so than carefully grown peppers from in the states, or other regions in general
BUT actually, if you set a standardized test of mass of powder of each strain of pepper that might even things out a little bit.. I just realized that if you get peppers that are larger they might just have more capsaicin than a smaller pepper of the same strain.. and again, it's not very reliable.. none of it is, even doing individual peppers isn't that great, unless, like said a bunch of times before.. you get an absolutely massive sample size.. but that just costs sooo much money.. but I would say start with trying to get samples from people, a few peppers of each strain that could be tested.. see how many you have (and if you can get the $3 for each pepper or something close to that, then good) and you might actually be able to replicate the testing, somewhat.. but even if we didn't get super controlled environments, which might be more of a pain than it's worth (because your always going to have variables) then at the very least it would be cool to see the different heat levels within the strains from different parts of the country/world.. that in itself is pretty cool.. would be able to see if those hot and humid environments really do produce stupid hot peppers, more so than carefully grown peppers from in the states, or other regions in general
The best test is probably to eat them, lol. Science misses out on how capsaicin is experienced. Certainly not an objective test but maybe chile heat isn't objective
The tepin is officially the world's hottest according to the "eat them" test, also known around here as the crazy Dremman's scale...lol
http://www.ecoseeds.com/pepper.hotness.scale.html
hmm, it says on there that dried peppers are 2-10x hotter than fresh peppers.... that just doesn't make sense to me, but yeah I can't wait to try my tepins, I didn't realize how big they got, so I now i have.. I think 6 plants for tepins lol, going to have a crap load of little tiny seeds.. I really wanted them because the heat is suppose to go away really quick.. but I don't get how they are suppose to be the hottest in the world. maybe for the size of them?.. I dono.. they are suppose to be only about 100,000 SHU, and I know this is a different scale, but still..
lol, and "they mean that if you take a single ounce of a particular pepper, how many ounces of salsa will that make hot?"... Huge differences in "hot".. but whatever, it seems like a fun comparison
and just noticed this.. lol "
Seeds have no hotness inside of them, so other than a tiny bit on the seed surface---removing seeds will generally make a pepper hotter. However, when we test peppers, we always keep the seeds in so we are always testing whole peppers."
with the statement above it: "[size="+1"]Tepín[/size] (seeds removed)-world's hottest 20,000-64,000(d)"
lol, and "they mean that if you take a single ounce of a particular pepper, how many ounces of salsa will that make hot?"... Huge differences in "hot".. but whatever, it seems like a fun comparison
and just noticed this.. lol "
Seeds have no hotness inside of them, so other than a tiny bit on the seed surface---removing seeds will generally make a pepper hotter. However, when we test peppers, we always keep the seeds in so we are always testing whole peppers."
with the statement above it: "[size="+1"]Tepín[/size] (seeds removed)-world's hottest 20,000-64,000(d)"
Scoville scale has to do with volume. Meaning it is a direct measurement of how much capsaicin content exists per mL of sample or something like that. When you dry a pod, you're reducing its volume by removing water. The capsaicinoids remain behind, increasing the heat of the sample, or at least that's how I understand it. Think molarity.
I'm not sure how they account for water loss in samples as they always test dried and ground pods it would seem. Different pods most certainly have different percentage water content.
oh ok, so their scale is based off of the amount of capsaicin per mass of pepper (dried). that makes sense.. because I was thinking before that it was strange if they did it per pod.. it would make sense.. but then obviously bigger pods would have more capsaicin than a smaller pod of that type giving it an advantage.. well that's good then, although.. I wonder if dried pods are different than older pods, because i thought that older pods were not as hot as fresh ones... so I guess there is a degenerative process in there, so you would need to dry pods right when they come off the plant.. am I going the right way with that?
if that is the case, I will make sure I dry/smoke them in batches once I pick them, don't want them to loose any of their heat! haha, I have people to burn!
if that is the case, I will make sure I dry/smoke them in batches once I pick them, don't want them to loose any of their heat! haha, I have people to burn!
lol, that is what I have heard.. which is why I think it's so strange... but anyways, I have some tepin peppers starting to form on my young plants.. can't wait to give them a shot.. although they apparently take forever to ripen.. my Bulgarian Carrots have had pods on them for about a month and a half.. and the damn things still haven't ripened, but they are starting to fill out a little more... in a few weeks I should have a bunch from one of the plants..
I just can't wait till my first cross is ripe.. the Bulgarian Carrot X Pretty purple pepper.. so i can get the seeds out and start a batch of F1s while I continue to cross everything I can haha.. just tried a Bulgarian Carrot X Tepin today.. but I don't think the flower I took from the tepin had pollen on it yet, have to wait a day or 2 before the other ones open up completely
I just can't wait till my first cross is ripe.. the Bulgarian Carrot X Pretty purple pepper.. so i can get the seeds out and start a batch of F1s while I continue to cross everything I can haha.. just tried a Bulgarian Carrot X Tepin today.. but I don't think the flower I took from the tepin had pollen on it yet, have to wait a day or 2 before the other ones open up completely
Alkaloid production is itself a complex, polygenic trait. Its a sum of multiple functions. It;s entirely possible (and not at all improbably) to see a non-monomodal distribution of alkaloid content from pod-to-pod on a single plant. This is a perennial problem in natural products bioengineering.
I'm stealing that line.
Sounds very interesting, but I'd make sure to double-check the lab's equipment use policy before getting too far ahead.
Actually, i think it illustrates the possibility for a very interesting business opportunity. For the kind of capsaicin testing people here are talking about, all you would need is a UV detector. A used system can be bought for not all that much, and you could set up shop pretty easily, Install the instrument, perform the qualifications, find a published test protocol, validate it on your system, and charge something modest -- e.g. $25-50 a sample. By stating up front the protocol, any maybe offering multiple runs as part of the package, you could easily make a name for yourself delivering standardized, quality data. There seems to be an unmet market demand here.
Epic...mrz1988, on 05 March 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:
...In reality its like they took five six-sided dice and tried to figure out which one rolls higher numbers by rolling each one twice. It should leave true scientists and statisticians with their palm firmly planted on their forehead.
Alright so I'm rather new to this forum, but one of the reasons i came here was to discuss this very topic. I would like to know which one is "the hottest"
Right now I'm a masters student at the University of Waterloo, and have access to an HPLC for the price of $19/hour. Each run would take approximately 10 minutes, so I would guess at 6 tests an hour. So $3 per sample for me to run the HPLC personally, which I have done many times before when I worked in the analytical instrumentation lab.
This is about as cheap as its going to get.
If I had the space/ seeds/ time I would most likely attempt to grow many of the plants myself, however based on the previous replies, the required sample size for "acceptable results" is very large.
Do you think enough people on this forum would be able to grow peppers and submit them dried, while strictly controlling growing conditions to monitor stress on the plant? If we split up the growing between many people, and assigned growing conditions to control (ie. temperature, watering, ferts etc.), then perhaps we would have a large enough sample base to get results that everyone would be happy with. I would gladly distribute all data publicly on the forum, including all individual results of peppers.
The disadvantage to this is that it would all be tested in one lab on the same machine (but hey maybe that's a good thing). I am in no way connected to the chile industry, and for the sake of unbiased testing I would request that anyone who grew peppers for a test such as this would also be unbiased.
What does everyone think?
Other than international shipping, it sounds like a great plan... Just do your self a favor and test more than 4 samples of each chili @.x