The Dangers of Dried Peppers & Powder

sicman said:
when you take cattle to market they have to be tagged saying you didnt use any hormones on them. do you guys want to buy beef that has been poisoned? good thing there is a law for us poor ranchers selling beef for yall grocery shoppers!
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I don't see anything about that on the USDA website. I see you can label it "hormone free" if you've demonstrated to inspectors it's indeed hormone free, but it's not a mandatory requirement. Again, I call BS on the USDA. "Free range" chicken only has to be shown to have outside access, whether that access is 24/7 or five minutes a day makes little difference to them. People assume that free range chicken lived a happy live in a beautiful meadow with puppies and rainbows but many "free range" farms are not happy places at all. Large businesses have been known to pay off inspectors so that everything is hunky dory when in reality it isn't.

But this isn't what this thread was meant to be about. It was to vent a little frustration towards the system in place that makes it relatively difficult to sell a bag of dried peppers, and mostly it was to seek comments on the "THIS PRODUCT NOT TO BE CONSUMED RAW" requirement which is something I've never seen on any dried pepper product.

I commend you for persevering and hope it pays off for you. I'm barely at the beginning and already finding it difficult.
 
Dorkasaurus said:
I don't see anything about that on the USDA website. I see you can label it "hormone free" if you've demonstrated to inspectors it's indeed hormone free, but it's not a mandatory requirement. Again, I call BS on the USDA. "Free range" chicken only has to be shown to have outside access, whether that access is 24/7 or five minutes a day makes little difference to them. People assume that free range chicken lived a happy live in a beautiful meadow with puppies and rainbows but many "free range" farms are not happy places at all. Large businesses have been known to pay off inspectors so that everything is hunky dory when in reality it isn't.

But this isn't what this thread was meant to be about. It was to vent a little frustration towards the system in place that makes it relatively difficult to sell a bag of dried peppers, and mostly it was to seek comments on the "THIS PRODUCT NOT TO BE CONSUMED RAW" requirement which is something I've never seen on any dried pepper product.

I commend you for persevering and hope it pays off for you. I'm barely at the beginning and already finding it difficult.
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not sure what you see but since im actually at a cattle market almost every tuesday in webster florida. i know what im talking about. also since i raise free range chickens that run around several acres and sell the eggs as "not for human use" since to call them free range,and organic would cost about $20,ooo and also take a 5 year period before you could sell anything. i think im pretty sure about the beef thing? and all im saying is it sucks also. that makes me think about people on this site selling things saying its organic. if you want to do that it cost $10,000 and a 5 year period before you can sell produce and call it organic. so remember that next time you buy some dudes plants that avertises organic.

and free range chicken!! when you buy eggs at the super market that says free range those chickens have been in a foot by foot pen that is on a belt that gets sun for a couple hours a day. that to me is a lie and a shame. but that company has several millions of dollars in thier company and has done everything legally.
 
Dorkasaurus said:
So today I had a meeting with the director of the kitchen, who in turn invited the county health inspector into the conversation. Not only is it already sounding like a fairly sizable PITA to sell dried peppers, the inspector brought up a specific labeling requirement which is: THIS PRODUCT NOT TO BE CONSUMED RAW.

Has anyone ever heard of such a thing? I have never seen this on any commercial powders, and believe me there's hundreds to choose from here in NM. Apparently someone used some green chile powder to make tea (I like the cut of their gib already lol) and since it was steeped not boiled it never reached 165f, and the person came down with salmonella from it. Now dried peppers tested show plenty of pathogens survive the drying process and can potentially lead to illness. Apparently some companies use radiation, Schilling (which only sells paprika? maybe cayenne?) apparently uses steam somehow in a proprietary process.
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Getting back to this example, a few things about that scenario don't add up. Salmonella can be found on any food, fruit, meat or otherwise. Gastric acids breakdown salmonella, unless there is a significant quantity of the bacteria in the food. A freshly brewed cup of tea made with green chiles shouldn't have any adverse effect...unless...the chiles were severly contaminated to begin with, or the tea was left at room temp for a significant amount of time before being consumed.

If the chiles were contaminated, that is not inherent to chiles! Anyone remember the e-Coli spinach outbreak a few years ago? And that doesn't address the issue of people not knowing that "hot" water might not be hot enough to qualify as "cooking". Some people use hot tap water (which is at the MOST 135-140F) and think that'll do to steep herb/chile tea.


Anyway, to get back to Dork~'s dilemma...there are veggie wash products that can be used. If you can't get resolution or approval for using that as your processing method and leaving the "raw consumption" stuff off the label, then look at a different agency. Maybe get State licensed, not county licensed. Might have to look at a different facility in a different city/county...but it's one of those things you come up against when dealing with AHJ's (Authority Having Juristiction).

Or just wait, and schedule your inspection for that inspector's day off.... different inspector, different interpretation...

Good Luck!
SL
 
salsalady said:
Getting back to this example, a few things about that scenario don't add up. Salmonella can be found on any food, fruit, meat or otherwise. Gastric acids breakdown salmonella, unless there is a significant quantity of the bacteria in the food. A freshly brewed cup of tea made with green chiles shouldn't have any adverse effect...unless...the chiles were severly contaminated to begin with, or the tea was left at room temp for a significant amount of time before being consumed.

If the chiles were contaminated, that is not inherent to chiles! Anyone remember the e-Coli spinach outbreak a few years ago? And that doesn't address the issue of people not knowing that "hot" water might not be hot enough to qualify as "cooking". Some people use hot tap water (which is at the MOST 135-140F) and think that'll do to steep herb/chile tea.


Anyway, to get back to Dork~'s dilemma...there are veggie wash products that can be used. If you can't get resolution or approval for using that as your processing method and leaving the "raw consumption" stuff off the label, then look at a different agency. Maybe get State licensed, not county licensed. Might have to look at a different facility in a different city/county...but it's one of those things you come up against when dealing with AHJ's (Authority Having Juristiction).

Or just wait, and schedule your inspection for that inspector's day off.... different inspector, different interpretation...

Good Luck!
SL
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I admit I was dumbfounded when she was explaining the risks involved with dried peppers and the label requirement. I did mention I have never seen this on any dried pepper but she assured me it was a new thing and the health department was taking a closer look at it. She even explained that the CPI at NMSU was looking for new processing methods to reduce the risk of pathogens. People have sun dried peppers in this state for at least 400 years longer than NM even became a state and I've never heard of any epidemics. Maybe bad peppers explain the disappearance of the Anasazi people?

Apparently I can avoid some hurdles by leaving the pods to dry on the plant and then harvesting and packaging/processing them in a commercial kitchen but that left me wondering why that's any more or less safe than a dehydrator.

The market I'm participating in has little concern about fresh produce, it's only the dried stuff causing problems. It doesn't make much sense to me but for now I'll continue with the classes and meetings and see where this adventure takes me.

sicman said:
not sure what you see but since im actually at a cattle market almost every tuesday in webster florida. i know what im talking about. also since i raise free range chickens that run around several acres and sell the eggs as "not for human use" since to call them free range,and organic would cost about $20,ooo and also take a 5 year period before you could sell anything. i think im pretty sure about the beef thing? and all im saying is it sucks also. that makes me think about people on this site selling things saying its organic. if you want to do that it cost $10,000 and a 5 year period before you can sell produce and call it organic. so remember that next time you buy some dudes plants that avertises organic.

and free range chicken!! when you buy eggs at the super market that says free range those chickens have been in a foot by foot pen that is on a belt that gets sun for a couple hours a day. that to me is a lie and a shame. but that company has several millions of dollars in thier company and has done everything legally.
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What I see is this http://www.fsis.usda...ndex.asp#16 It doesn't say you HAVE to label it "No hormones administered", it says if approved you MAY say it's "No homornes administered". I don't doubt you know more about cattle and regulations than I do. I do find it interesting however that you support selling eggs "not for human use" but appear put off by someone selling pepper powder "illegally" or as an animal deterrent to cover themselves.
 
yall are right im wrong! i dont own anything i sit in my apartment playing wow all day,just day dreaming that i could make a honest living one day.im so happy that i have my obama phone,and take from the government all i can. people should make meth and sell it to thier mothers. once again im so sorry that i dont have your job. because its the only real honest way to make money. infact ranchers and farmers are suckers.



im bored with this :cheers:
 
You can make 10,000 gallons of moonshine legally and with a free permit. (I believe free)
Provided you follow all the stipulations----one being you poison it to make it un-drinkable.

We know *everyone* follows that regulation. :liar:

Just sayin'.

"Prepared food" is a PITA, but plants and fresh produce have wiggle room.
 
This is like the raw milk arguement. You can't legally buy raw milk to drink,but you can buy it for pet use. Most raw milk has a "for pet use only" label. This is pure ignorence of the government,because raw milk is a "super food" if your body can tolerate it. Hell,you can live off of raw milk alone. Just know where you are getting it from.

What's the difference here for peppers? I don't give a damn if it's legal or not. If I know who and where it's coming from,then it's all good to consume. The government,fda,and all those food controllers can eat a knife while jumping off a cliff. Who are they to tell me what I can and cannot eat? It's up to the people to educate themselves about food,water,and butt plugs.
 
sicman said:
yall are right im wrong! i dont own anything i sit in my apartment playing wow all day,just day dreaming that i could make a honest living one day.im so happy that i have my obama phone,and take from the government all i can. people should make meth and sell it to thier mothers. once again im so sorry that i dont have your job. because its the only real honest way to make money. infact ranchers and farmers are suckers.



im bored with this :cheers:
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Interesting. I had no idea people still played WoW.
 
sicman said:
yall are right im wrong! i dont own anything i sit in my apartment playing wow all day,just day dreaming that i could make a honest living one day.im so happy that i have my obama phone,and take from the government all i can. people should make meth and sell it to thier mothers. once again im so sorry that i dont have your job. because its the only real honest way to make money. infact ranchers and farmers are suckers.



im bored with this :cheers:
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Well you almost nailed it except you forgot to mention that I'm a 350lb fat sweaty guy living in my mom's basement who sits around waiting for my foodstamps so I can buy more of the cheetos that are strewn about my keyboard. :P
 
Dorkasaurus said:
Well you almost nailed it except you forgot to mention that I'm a 350lb fat sweaty guy living in my mom's basement who sits around waiting for my foodstamps so I can buy more of the cheetos that are strewn about my keyboard. :P
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just don't name your company SofaKing Hot Peppers. :rolleyes:


:lol:


[sub](ps- I'm calling BS on your last post, D~ ....It's Flaming Hot CHeetos on the desk!)[/sub]
 
I have, and have had alcohol manufacturing licenses. City, county, state, FBI background checks, all that fun government stuff. Personal production use and shipping varies by state. Just to let you know......it is a felony to ship into and out of certain states. In some instances you can not even walk across the street and give it to you neighbor. America, land of the free. lol
 
Dorkasaurus said:
 It's almost like the system is designed to discourage anyone from bringing better food to market.
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Ding, ding, ding, ding..... We have a winner folks.  It's all about government control.  They are trying to worm into everything, you just hear about "hotbutton" issues or people's pet causes in the media, but its pervasive.
Harold
 
Whitewookie said:
Ding, ding, ding, ding..... We have a winner folks.  It's all about government control.  They are trying to worm into everything, you just hear about "hotbutton" issues or people's pet causes in the media, but its pervasive.
Harold
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I know sarcasm doesn't come across well in written form but I said what I said with a touch of sarcasm.  It's bordering on stupidity and I'm glad to see some states coming to their senses and allowing home prepared stuff to be sold at farmers markets. 
 
And to anyone who would say home kitchens are bad idea and point out that commercial producers are inspected and safe I would argue two things.  First, most people don't routinely poison themselves cooking at home.  That indicates some level of safety in your home cooked bologna sandwich or whatever (and yeah, the USDA is why the bologna was safe... yawn).  Second, like every other part of our government the USDA is bought and sold on a regular basis and isn't any real guarantee the food you eat is safe.  Do you really believe a giant food producer has any problem skirting the regulations with the USDA or DoH if grease is properly applied to the appropriate palms?  When I see a pest in the garden I step on it, when they see a pest in their farm they call in the jets and wage chemical war.  It's all perfectly safe though, the government assures me it is and they never lie.
 
Government isn't a babysitter and shouldn't have to protect everyone from themselves.  And yes, I've all but given up on being certified to sell a bag of powder.  I'll just have to do it like people have done for hundreds of years and sell it directly through word of mouth and (now illegal) roadside stands.
 
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