fermenting The Monster Mash...2/7...Strange Umami?

[Roguejim]

Well, having ruined my first 2 mashes, including this classic> http://thehotpepper.com/topic/50636-my-lovely-jalapeno-ferment-photo/
I've jumped in for a third time with all the pods from my final harvest.  It is a mix of nardellos, red habs, aji pineapples, fresnos, cherry bombs, maui purples, cacho de cabras, and peppadews.  I also included 1/2 onion, 1 peach, 3.6% salt, 2 cups water, plus 1 Culturelle lacto capsule.  I hope the peach will provide enough sugar in this 1/2 gallon jar.  Wish me luck!
 

 
 

 

[Roguejim]

Just leave out water and use 2 cups of wine instead I use whitelab for my lab. How much salt are you using? And yes just place cabbage leaf as in photo push down below bell jar curve allowing brine to seap by.

Thanks.  3.6% pickling salt.

Just leave out water and use 2 cups of wine instead I use whitelab for my lab. How much salt are you using? And yes just place cabbage leaf as in photo push down below bell jar curve allowing brine to seap by.

Could I cut the wine amount in half, say 1C. wine, 1C. water?

 

[oldsalty]

Thanks.  3.6% pickling salt.
Could I cut the wine amount in half, say 1C. wine, 1C. water?

No problem will work fine. The sugars in the wine will help promote fermentation.

 

[Roguejim]

Today, I processed The Monster Mash.  The aroma is very peppery with that lacto-umami.  It would be perfect except for one thing; it's too salty.  I tried Rocketman's cure of adding a skinned, raw potato to the sauce for a 15 minute simmer, in hopes of drawing out the saltiness, but I don't think it did much.  I wonder if 3.6% salt is necessary...Anyway, here's some photos.
 
Kahm yeast.

 

 
Does this mold look like a problem?  It was only in this one spot on the jar.

 
On the stove.  I added 5 cloves of garlic to the pot.

 
I added this small potato for the last 15 minutes of the initial boil, and then removed it.  I added another potato for 15 minutes during the final boil, after blending and straining the sauce.

 
This is right after straining the sauce and returning it to the pot for the final simmer.  Velvety.  I added 1 cup water and 3 tbls honey.

 
Done.  It made 7-4oz. mason jars full.

 

[SmokenFire]

RJ that looks excellent.  Very happy to see you get a batch all the way through fermentation and processed.  It only gets easier from here!

 

[Sm1nts2escape]

I used 2.5% salt in my ferments and it came out perfectly. One ferment I even added additional salt at the bottling stage. The headspace needed is dependent on how agressive the ferment is. I went with about the same headspace as you and was close to boiling over. I also noticed that adding fruits to the ferments makes more yeast. The sauce looks great. Did you add any vinegar to the final product?

 

[Roguejim]

I used 2.5% salt in my ferments and it came out perfectly. One ferment I even added additional salt at the bottling stage. The headspace needed is dependent on how agressive the ferment is. I went with about the same headspace as you and was close to boiling over. I also noticed that adding fruits to the ferments makes more yeast. The sauce looks great. Did you add any vinegar to the final product?

Thanks guys.  I hope I can get the salt under control.  I'll bet if I use wine as part of the liquid during fermentation, I can cut back a bit on the salt.
 
It's funny you mentioned vinegar.  When my wife walked into the kitchen while the sauce was boiling, she said it smelled "vinegary".  I told her it was the lacto.  No vinegar added.

 

[Downriver]

...It would be perfect except for one thing; it's too salty... I wonder if 3.6% salt is necessary...

 
Nice looking sauce RJ!
 
Now, when you say 3.6% salt, is that by weight? I'm guessing so.
 
In my early fermenting days, I tried 3.6% by weight – WAY to salty for me. Then I switched to a 3.6% brine and it did the trick, at least for me. I also use a starter, typically juice from a kraut or a kimchi, as I always have one on hand. If you don't, you can use the juice from a bag of fresh (not canned) sauerkraut. Look for it in the refrigerated section at the grocery. You might be able to find a jar of kimchi there as well. And, don't forget, you can start a new ferment by using a little bit of a “matured” ferment. All good jump-starter options.
 
Sandor Katz says “salt to taste”, which ain't very much, in my opinion.
 
jm2c

 

[Roguejim]

 
Nice looking sauce RJ!
 
Now, when you say 3.6% salt, is that by weight? I'm guessing so.
 
In my early fermenting days, I tried 3.6% by weight – WAY to salty for me. Then I switched to a 3.6% brine and it did the trick, at least for me. I also use a starter, typically juice from a kraut or a kimchi, as I always have one on hand. If you don't, you can use the juice from a bag of fresh (not canned) sauerkraut. Look for it in the refrigerated section at the grocery. You might be able to find a jar of kimchi there as well. And, don't forget, you can start a new ferment by using a little bit of a “matured” ferment. All good jump-starter options.
 
Sandor Katz says “salt to taste”, which ain't very much, in my opinion.
 
jm2c

I've never quite understood what a brine is.  Can you explain it to me?

 

[RocketMan]

Rogue, it takes longer than 15 minutes and sometimes you have to add some water and let keep simmering till the salt is soaked up. Generally if a sauce is too salty to me it takes a good 45 minutes or so to get it where I want it to be.

 

[Roguejim]

Rogue, it takes longer than 15 minutes and sometimes you have to add some water and let keep simmering till the salt is soaked up. Generally if a sauce is too salty to me it takes a good 45 minutes or so to get it where I want it to be.

Thanks. I guess you need to be a little careful that the potato doesn't fall apart into your sauce after 45 minutes of simmering. Any chance of that happening?

 

[SmokenFire]

I've never quite understood what a brine is.  Can you explain it to me?

 
RJ - Brine is just salt dissolved in water.  You get various 'strength' brine by how much salt is dissolved in the water.  Pretty sure BeerBreath and/or SalsaLady have covered salt % brines in the fermenting 101 or measurements thread.  Using DR's example above he'd be making his mash and then 'topping' with his brine - that is mash in the jar and then adding brine to cover the mash that's being fermented.  Not to speak for DR of course, but I believe that's what they mean.  Very similar to how you 'top' the mash with wine, only you're using salt dissolved in water.  
 
The potato leaching salt trick does indeed work - though you're correct in noting that you need to pull the tater when it's fork tender otherwise it'll go to pieces in your mash, and it can take 3 or 4 (or more) potatoes to fully get the salt.  Backsweetening with honey/turbinado sugar/agave and/or adding a touch of vinegar or lime juice can also help achieve taste balance.

 

[Roguejim]

 
RJ - Brine is just salt dissolved in water.  You get various 'strength' brine by how much salt is dissolved in the water.  Pretty sure BeerBreath and/or SalsaLady have covered salt % brines in the fermenting 101 or measurements thread.  Using DR's example above he'd be making his mash and then 'topping' with his brine - that is mash in the jar and then adding brine to cover the mash that's being fermented.  Not to speak for DR of course, but I believe that's what they mean.  Very similar to how you 'top' the mash with wine, only you're using salt dissolved in water.  
 
The potato leaching salt trick does indeed work - though you're correct in noting that you need to pull the tater when it's fork tender otherwise it'll go to pieces in your mash, and it can take 3 or 4 (or more) potatoes to fully get the salt.  Backsweetening with honey/turbinado sugar/agave and/or adding a touch of vinegar or lime juice can also help achieve taste balance.

If I add 3.6% salt (by weight) directly to the mash, and then top with 2 cups of warm water. it's not a brine.  But, if I mix the water and salt first, then add to the mash, it is a brine?  I see no difference, really.  As far as it being diluted by water, it seems to me that 3.6% salt by weight remains the same no matter how much water you dilute it with.  My head hurts... 

 

[Roguejim]

I've been eating this sauce the last couple of days, and there is a distinct flavor/aromatic note that I can't place, yet it seems familiar.  The closest description I can come up with is smoked cheese!  Very strange, and, not totally objectionable, either.  Just not anything like I expected.  I haven't gotten sick from it (yet?), so I guess I'm just looking for comments.  Odd?  Normal?  Poison?!