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tutorial The Pest Guide

What Threat Level would you rate Broad Mites 1-10? Concider damage, control, prevention, and how ann

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  • Total voters
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Transfering organic outdoor tactics indoors, without properly taking into account the difference in environment. Plants develope differently under the best of conditions indoors, and are more susceptible to attack, especially by sucking insects. And it is just as easy to fail one way or the other, it comes down to the grower.
 
Yes, results do count for something. As said, I will try, but aphids are a terrible example and it will prove little. From all accounts I can spray straight water and achieve the same results. But what I meant is, I find little actual evidence of any one using this in an commercial or controlled setting, to control a variety of pests. Most research is geared towards using it aerobically and anerobically to control fungus/bacterial problems. There is one example of a group of students trying to control whitefly with a combination of compost and tea, but it failed. Like I said, maybe it was how I searched.
 
When it comes to organics it is best to look at your garden as a holistic system rather then way we are conventionally taught to think on most subjects which is to break everything down into independent systems. I think the trouble with a good portion of "Science" experiments on organics (and a good deal of other subjects) are the experiments look at things independent of the system they are part of to see how they work. If I studied how a piston worked independent of the car and rest of the engine how far would I get and how well would it work??
 
miguelovic said:
Transfering organic outdoor tactics indoors, without properly taking into account the difference in environment. Plants develope differently under the best of conditions indoors, and are more susceptible to attack, especially by sucking insects. And it is just as easy to fail one way or the other, it comes down to the grower.
 
Yes, results do count for something. As said, I will try, but aphids are a terrible example and it will prove little. From all accounts I can spray straight water and achieve the same results. But what I meant is, I find little actual evidence of any one using this in an commercial or controlled setting, to control a variety of pests. Most research is geared towards using it aerobically and anerobically to control fungus/bacterial problems. There is one example of a group of students trying to control whitefly with a combination of compost and tea, but it failed. Like I said, maybe it was how I searched.
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I'm not quite sure how one bug with an exoskeleton, is any less of an example than another bug with an exoskeleton. What was asked, is how AACT will rid a grower of mites or white flies. I provided the answer and used my personal nemesis, aphids, as my personal example. The simple truth is AACT essentially eats bugs. Its that simple. I would argue that spraying water is NOT going to achieve the same results, based on the fact that water will not eat bugs, or continue to do so long after its been sprayed. 
 
Also, a grower making decisions based on whether or not they've seen commercial evidence of a given practice, is ill advised. The one study you reference has no weight on the subject simply because they didn't achieve the results that I do. If you're making AACT correctly, with the right stuff, then it will work. Plain and simple. Again, no anecdote needed. 
The one thing you said that was dead on, is that "results do count for something". Check out any of the "organic" glogs here or on any other grow site - including mine :) 
 
Pepper-Guru said:
I'm not quite sure how one bug with an exoskeleton, is any less of an example than another bug with an exoskeleton. What was asked, is how AACT will rid a grower of mites or white flies. I provided the answer and used my personal nemesis, aphids, as my personal example. The simple truth is AACT essentially eats bugs. Its that simple. I would argue that spraying water is NOT going to achieve the same results, based on the fact that water will not eat bugs, or continue to do so long after its been sprayed. 
 
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Very thought provoking. Thanks for your response.
 
 
Pepper-Guru said:
If you're making AACT correctly, with the right stuff, then it will work. Plain and simple. Again, no anecdote needed.
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Recipe?
 
Pepper-Guru said:
I'm not quite sure how one bug with an exoskeleton, is any less of an example than another bug with an exoskeleton. What was asked, is how AACT will rid a grower of mites or white flies. I provided the answer and used my personal nemesis, aphids, as my personal example. The simple truth is AACT essentially eats bugs. Its that simple. I would argue that spraying water is NOT going to achieve the same results, based on the fact that water will not eat bugs, or continue to do so long after its been sprayed.
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I mention spraying water because I have read here, and on numerous reputable websites, that simply knocking aphids off consistently can provide good control, by exposing them to predators on the ground, hence why they make a poor example. I've never read anything about tea in regards to eating exoskeletons, but I do respect what you do and your experience, and will look into it. If a virulent pest population sprouts up, I would love to test this out, at the least to confirm for myself.
 
If it was really that simple, and a cheap and effective material could be used to control a wide range of bugs, I would think there would be atleast one example of someone objectively implementing this on scale.
 
 
Pepper-Guru said:
Also, a grower making decisions based on whether or not they've seen commercial evidence of a given practice, is ill advised. The one study you reference has no weight on the subject simply because they didn't achieve the results that I do. If you're making AACT correctly, with the right stuff, then it will work. Plain and simple. Again, no anecdote needed.
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Ill advised? Requiring more evidence than opinion to back up such a bold statement? Well I guess that's called skepticism, my apologies for not taking everyone I meet at their word, but it has served me well. Anecdotes aren't needed like you continue to say, and as I originally mentioned. The reference holds no weight because, from your experience, you disagree with it? That's just lovely. I wasen't going to post it because it was conducted by students, and I had my doubts, but to each their own...
 
I have read your glog, I thoroughly enjoyed it, and it is one of the reasons why I lay some substance to this.
 
I have also made ACT with many variations in input, method and volume, from 1 to 200 gallons. I follow Tim Wilsons recipe, something I am sure you are well acquainted with. Is that up to snuff?
 
 
Trippa said:
When it comes to organics it is best to look at your garden as a holistic system rather then way we are conventionally taught to think on most subjects which is to break everything down into independent systems. I think the trouble with a good portion of "Science" experiments on organics (and a good deal of other subjects) are the experiments look at things independent of the system they are part of to see how they work. If I studied how a piston worked independent of the car and rest of the engine how far would I get and how well would it work??
Click to expand...
 
I totally agree with this sentiment. Science and the scientific method, is heavily reductionist and can rarely study anything with multiple variables, and frequently reinforces the assumption that the whole is the sum of its individual parts. I am not looking for a lab result where ACT was sprayed against mites in a petri dish, though that would furnish somewhat acceptable results. I look for universities and colleges that implement new ideas on scale, in greenhouses and in the field.
 
And to round this out. I come from an industry with little, if any, scientific research, and much of current paradigm has come from forum "gurus" like yourself. Fundamental practices have evolved from conjecture, discussion and widespread self-testing, until enough people confirm the results and it becomes acceptable practice. So I am not in the habit of standing up on science and lab results, but do carry a healthy skepticism.
 
miguelovic said:
 
 
 
If it was really that simple, and a cheap and effective material could be used to control a wide range of bugs, I would think there would be atleast one example of someone objectively implementing this on scale.
 
 
 
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I can tell you why right now, its a lot of work for a large scale op. You literally have to get the bottom of every leaf, and that would take a lot of time per plant.
 
You might think that that is a bad thing, it is for a farmer, but for a hobby gardener... I would say 60% of the problems growers here on THP have, are a result of over loving.
You cant over do compost tea, I have tried :shocked:
 
A great point to have brought up would have been chitinase, and trying to extract it before it acts upon the fungal population of a brew.
 
And it is a lot of work for a larger operation, but it is possible. Hell there are 2000 gallon brewmeisters out there that apply it with boom sprayers.
 
And then there is the Juggernaut, for the DIY-er at heart :)
 
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Don't get me wrong, I freaking love compost tea. I attributed the pest-resistance of a room run on H&G coco to the applications of compost tea and amending the soilless mix lightly with castings. But it did not provide control. Clearly there were a lot of variables in that situation, including a plant stressed out by growing in chemical salts (disturbing plant frequencies) but it does provide support to theory of increasing resistance.
 
What I am concerned with and looking for, are real world examples, not what the average kitchen gardener with a surplus of time on their hands can achieve. I have heard of people controlling virulent pests by handwashing leaves. It works great, in their situation.
 
miguelovic said:
I mention spraying water because I have read here, and on numerous reputable websites, that simply knocking aphids off consistently can provide good control, by exposing them to predators on the ground, hence why they make a poor example. I've never read anything about tea in regards to eating exoskeletons, but I do respect what you do and your experience, and will look into it. If a virulent pest population sprouts up, I would love to test this out, at the least to confirm for myself.
 
If it was really that simple, and a cheap and effective material could be used to control a wide range of bugs, I would think there would be atleast one example of someone objectively implementing this on scale.
 
 

 
Ill advised? Requiring more evidence than opinion to back up such a bold statement? Well I guess that's called skepticism, my apologies for not taking everyone I meet at their word, but it has served me well. Anecdotes aren't needed like you continue to say, and as I originally mentioned. The reference holds no weight because, from your experience, you disagree with it? That's just lovely. I wasen't going to post it because it was conducted by students, and I had my doubts, but to each their own...
 
I have read your glog, I thoroughly enjoyed it, and it is one of the reasons why I lay some substance to this.
 
I have also made ACT with many variations in input, method and volume, from 1 to 200 gallons. I follow Tim Wilsons recipe, something I am sure you are well acquainted with. Is that up to snuff?
 
 

 
I totally agree with this sentiment. Science and the scientific method, is heavily reductionist and can rarely study anything with multiple variables, and frequently reinforces the assumption that the whole is the sum of its individual parts. I am not looking for a lab result where ACT was sprayed against mites in a petri dish, though that would furnish somewhat acceptable results. I look for universities and colleges that implement new ideas on scale, in greenhouses and in the field.
 
And to round this out. I come from an industry with little, if any, scientific research, and much of current paradigm has come from forum "gurus" like yourself. Fundamental practices have evolved from conjecture, discussion and widespread self-testing, until enough people confirm the results and it becomes acceptable practice. So I am not in the habit of standing up on science and lab results, but do carry a healthy skepticism.
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That's a fair and respectable response. Please don't confuse my brevity with disrespect or unwillingness to discuss matters at length. I'm guilty at times for making assumptions about what people think just as much as everyone else. I, much like yourself, have made it my goal not to take just any ones word for anything and have made it a habit to test things for myself and then understand the science behind it. My point was essentially that the use of AACT is science, not myth. That's all. Also, just for the record, I'm no self proclaimed Guru by any stretch. That handle originated from a buddy of mine long ago, and I just thought it sounded bad ass :)
 
I think the handle fits, I did not intend the term to sound depricating. I admire what you, Nigel, cayenne, windchicken, spicychicken, spicegiest et al. are accomplishing and for the sheer amount of capsaicin you guys pump out. At the same time I will still watch Blister and his coco hempies and love it, and will run coco again, and try some DWC, because there are so many ways to get the eggs in the pan, why not try them all at least once.
 
Even while I believe the only sustainable approach is to grow organically from recycled inputs, I'll still have a jug of fruit juice or bag of salt kicking around, to experience everything. I started at this last year and in no way do I have a complete understanding of any of the aspects growing.
 
And if I didn't already have a middle name, assumption would be right up. I would never consider ACT a myth, despite some studies to the contrary, but if I hold it up as a form of pest control, I need a leg to stand on. As much as I respect the opinions of good growers, "I heard from this guy on the internet" is a sure fire way to marginalize yourself in a conversation..
 
The only point I contend is that an entire pest management program could rely on tea alone, but maybe it can in a balanched environment. I need to see it for myself, in respectable trials or through the accumulated efforts of a large enough body of people.
 
miguelovic said:
I think the handle fits, I did not intend the term to sound depricating. I admire what you, Nigel, cayenne, windchicken, spicychicken, spicegiest et al. are accomplishing and for the sheer amount of capsaicin you guys pump out. At the same time I will still watch Blister and his coco hempies and love it, and will run coco again, and try some DWC, because there are so many ways to get the eggs in the pan, why not try them all at least once. Even while I believe the only sustainable approach is to grow organically from recycled inputs, I'll still have a jug of fruit juice or bag of salt kicking around. To experience everything.
 
And if I didn't already have a middle name, assumption would be right up there with the top contenders. I would never consider ACT a myth, despite some studies to the contrary, but if I hold it up as a form of pest control, I need a leg to stand on. And as much as I respect the opinions of good growers, "I heard from this guy on the internet" is a sure fire way to marginalize yourself in a conversation, right up there with "...on Wiki I read...".
 
The only point I contend is that an entire pest management program could rely on tea alone, but maybe it can in a balanched environment. I need to see it for myself, in respectable trials or through the accumulated action of a large body of people.
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Thanks,
Trust me I wish I had the literature to back up my claims, but your right there isn't much yet. And I know what you mean "because there are so many ways to get the eggs in the pan."
 
And that's why I will have both Biological and Typical Controls in this guide. We have enough cumulative experience here on THP alone to warrant putting AACT under Biological Control, or at least under Prevention for a wide variety of pests.
 
Indeed. The more I read the more I ....keep reading. At least it is a very strong preventative and functional as a part or whole of a reactive measure. Although truth be told, tea would act more as a broad spectrum, in regard to arthropods. ie. classed with BT and Azamax :D
 
Top dressing with a chitin rich amendment and spraying tea could make a strong combination that could flower-power-hippy away all the bugs :P
 
Chitin and the reactions it induces were the reasoning behind implementing crab/lobster/shrimp/insect meals in the first organic mix I was involved in, and a bit of a sore point that I can not easily source it. ie. dodge shipping.
 
miguelovic said:
 
 
Top dressing with a chitin rich amendment and spraying tea could make a strong combination that could flower-power-hippy away all the bugs :P
 
 
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And Hintz the nickname Ras Trent... Bada ding ding whoao...
 
Google it ;)
 
I think i may have screwed up.
 
I've been struggling to control an aphid infestation that was introduced by an OW'ed habanero.    Since february, this has since progressed into a whitefly and mite problem as well.    I responded by giving all my plants a dose of permethrin weekly, and it worked on the mites and the white flies.   It worked for a while, but hasn't completely alleviated the aphid problem.
 
Yesterday, I populated my greenhouse with the chiles I started in Dec, and i noticed that they still have aphids.   I bombed the greenhouse with an entire can of aerasolized permethrin, and it killed everything (for now).
 
Today, I bought 1000 ladybugs (my preferred method for aphid control outdoors), and as far as I can tell, they all died immediately after eating contaminated aphids.
 
I know it's stupid and lazy to use chemicals to control pests, but I (for the first time) succumbed to the temptation.
 
How long should I wait to introduce more ladybugs into the greenhouse?  And/or is there a method of decontaminating my plants so i can start to establish a population of beneficial insects?
 
(help?)
 
around here chipmunks are notorious for chewing into melons on the blossom end and picking out the seeds...everything looks cool until you realize the melons are deflating...then the hornets start moving in.
 
also, any mammal will be affected by using hot pepper powder.  Capsaicin is specially designed by nature to deter mammals, likely because we have molars and can crush seeds. 
 
ikeepfish said:
around here chipmunks are notorious for chewing into melons on the blossom end and picking out the seeds...everything looks cool until you realize the melons are deflating...then the hornets start moving in.
 
also, any mammal will be affected by using hot pepper powder.  Capsaicin is specially designed by nature to deter mammals, likely because we have molars and can crush seeds. 
Click to expand...
 
with that vid i posted, i have gotten rid of 6 in my garden so far,in 1 day, every 20 minutes or so i had to reset the trap, and with enough water in there they are dead in a few seconds, they have killed 4 of my rhubarb and were tunneling under the rest of my garden. i used cashews for bait lol
 
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