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greenhouse Thoughts about a greenhouse

Some background:

#1 - I have a barn/shed that is about 22'x12' that I will be replacing this spring. I plan on taking it down a board or two at the time and saving the lumber.

#2 - I have a 10-12' wide by 35' long space in my garden that will not grow weeds, let alone plants. I'm going to try and reclaim part of it but the easternmost side is probably a few years away from being usable - I'm convinced that whatever took down a beautiful, huge tree that had a 40'+ canopy leached something into the ground and that's impacting the dirt there, at least to a point.

#3 - I really love growing stuff and figure I can make some extra money, perhaps a significant amount, by selling plants in the spring and produce in the summer, fall and spring.

Given the above, I'm considering a greenhouse that will be 10'x 20' x 7' tall. That will give me room to raise anywhere from 864 to 1728 plants to sell. I also have room upstairs for at least the same amount.

The advantages of a greenhouse vs. the dirt garden:

It can be used 12 months a year. In the late summer, fall and early winter I can turn it into a huge hydroponics unit and raise plants like basil, lettuce and some tomatoes. Basil goes for $9/lb. or close to it and with 60 plants I should be able to harvest 50 pounds a week for several weeks, maybe a few months if I keep a close eye on it. Add in some lettuce and tomatoes to cover operating costs.

In late winter, I can start plants there as well as have a safe place to harden them. During late fall and over the winter, I can overwinter plants, both peppers and flowers.

Since I want to keep construction costs to a minimum (I can always upgrade) I'm thinking about using 4 mil, clear polyplastic for the side windows. I'll use three layers with an air space between each layer to make it easier to keep warm in winter. On the outside, the 'windows' will have 1/4" mesh wire fencing to cover the plastic. The windows will be about 44" wide, leaving just a couple of inches for the studs. They will also be 4' tall.

For the roof, rather than using the typical inverted 'V', it will be a sloping one with the slope facing south-south west. This is the part whose design I have not figured out. We have a couple of heavy snowfalls as well as an ice storm or two each winter. Because heat loss is very important, I have to be concerned about the weight the roof will support. Suggestions are appreciated.

The walls (what little bit that will not be a window) will be well insulated. Heat will be supplied by a 400 watt EconoHeater that keeps a well insulated, 10x10' room at least 70 degrees even on very cold days. Haven't decided on lighting yet but it will likely be something akin to 23 watt CFL bulbs.

Oh, and the floor will be dirt. I plan on covering it with plastic for several days and letting it bake. Gotta kill those bugs in it!

Your thoughts about this plan...

Mike
 
Before you grow 60 basil plants, make sure you know your market! Once you have an "in" with a local market, they may want to dictate what you grow.
Now about the greenhouse! Keep in mind that a flat roof is the weakest, whether it is slanted or not. I would suggest somekind of a peak to double the stregnth! (maybe an off-pitch)
Why not do hydroponic all year long? No matter what you grow. Check out the link.

http://www.discount-hydro.com/productdisp.php?pid=43&navid=4

Ignor the cost, it can be built for pennies on the dollar!
 
GrumpyBear said:
if you're doing all that why not upgrade to hid lights? if yer gonna get wet, you might as well go swimming...

GB,

Cause I'm not sold that HID lights are the way to go. If I'm going to go swimming, I'll do diving from a high cliff and go for a 90 watt LED.

Seriously, in a greenhouse, I shouldn't need to worry much about light if I build it correctly. Only for a couple of hours of a morning and evening and then just from Nov - Mar.

Mike
 
I'm gonna try to build one next year sometime. A greenhouse is the bomb! Tuesday I'm getting my first coldframe which will have to get me by until next year. I'm mostly gonna use the cold frame later on for maters, cabbage etc.
 
I'm glad to see others are looking at greenhouses. But I can see AJ posting his plans, one that revolves according to the position of the sun to take advantage of all the light, with vents that open and close depending on the temps, an automatic sprinkling system that delivers water from both the top and the bottom of the containers depending on the moisture content of his growing medium...

Mike
 
A slant or flat roof that holds the snow would be great from an insulation point of view, but would be much harder to engineer, and would obviously block the light. A peak roof that lets the snow slide off would seem to be the best idea, maybe some of those heated pipes to melt the snow off.
 
wordwiz said:
For the roof, rather than using the typical inverted 'V', it will be a sloping one with the slope facing south-south west. This is the part whose design I have not figured out. We have a couple of heavy snowfalls as well as an ice storm or two each winter. Because heat loss is very important, I have to be concerned about the weight the roof will support. Suggestions are appreciated.


Mike


I thought most greenhouses are the half circular type than a " A frame" (inverted V)
is the green house basically only receiving sunlight from 1 direction ? & this is your plans to have those walls poly & the rest insulated walls ?
if you put a steep enough pitch to the poly wall that should keep most of the weight off it. & if still questioning if the poly would hold extra snow weight you could place conduit inbetween the main braces for extra support or have the main braces closer to each (assuming you're building this from scratch & not buying a kit)

I'd spend the extra money for the thickest poly for the outside layer.
 
Personally I wouldn't consider growing in the winter where you have to provide heat as well as additional lighting and extra pest control. It costs me enough just to heat my polytunnel in the spring. You should also be prepared for mites, aphids and whitefly that don't usually have year round predators
 
Mike...this is a solar greenhouse. Last year, Pam was talking about one of these and I got interested...if you build it right, you will need very little heat and you can make maximum use of the sun you get. It is called a solar greenhouse and it seems that you have the materials to make one from the "scrap" lumber of your shed.

solargreenhouse-1.jpg


the basic principle is to set the angle of the roof facing the sun so that it will be at 90 degrees to the sun when it is at the middle height in the sky...winter time is the lowest in December and its highest in June, so check and see how many degrees above the horizon the sun is at the end of March, figure your 90 degees from that and that will set the pitch of your roof. You only have to have the roof facing the sun be a greenhouse type material, all other materials can be wood. The back side of the roof can be any material, wood, tin, etc.

for heat, use 5 gallon syrup cans filled with water that have been painted black against the north wall that are stacked up to where the north wall hits the roof. I know this is a lot of cans but any container painted black will work.

There has been a lot of research on this type of greenhouse and if I were to ever build one, this would be it. I can not build one on my property because of the heighth restrictions here. Just do a google search for "solar greenhouse" and you can get the actual plans for one.

good luck with your project...

EDIT: here is a link...

http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/solar-gh.html#designs
 
Heating is one issue but you'll also really have to think about cooling and shading, as well as proper air circulation. Are you planning on having electricity and water?
 
Not to get off thread but if the tree that went down was a black walnut they have some naturally occuring chemistry that prevents many things from growing anywhere in the dripline...tomatoes, flowers, you name it. I learned this the hard way and had to accept that the walnut did not want anything growing under it.
 
Jackie,

It wasn't. It was an English Elm. Never did find out what killed it so quickly. It went from being completely full of green foliage to barren with large, totally rotten branches in less than a month.

Mike
 
POTAWIE said:
Personally I wouldn't consider growing in the winter where you have to provide heat as well as additional lighting and extra pest control. It costs me enough just to heat my polytunnel in the spring. You should also be prepared for mites, aphids and whitefly that don't usually have year round predators

I have a 400 watt heater that keeps 800 cubic feet about 72 degrees and while the room is insulated, it still leaks a lot of air. Figure using AJ's (Pam's) suggestion would help keep it warm also. Plus, during the coldest part of the year, the major plants would be basil and lettuce; both are cool weather crops.

AlabamaJack said:
There has been a lot of research on this type of greenhouse and if I were to ever build one, this would be it. I can not build one on my property because of the heighth restrictions here. Just do a google search for "solar greenhouse" and you can get the actual plans for one.

good luck with your project...
Fortunately, the way the property sits, the greenhouse would face perfectly to collect the afternoon sun's rays. Another advantage is that even though Ohio gets quite cold during winter, it is usually only for about three weeks and even then it is usually sunny at least four days a week.

POTAWIE said:
Heating is one issue but you'll also really have to think about cooling and shading, as well as proper air circulation. Are you planning on having electricity and water?

In summer time I could either let it sit empty and go the dirt route (the ground is useless except for containers) or open doors/windows.

I will have electricity but not running water. But it is only 50 feet from the back door so I can carry water or - if it isn't so cold that the water line outside is frozen, use a garden hose.

Mike
 
I was thinking of a design like what AJ posted (pic) but have the front half from roof peak down as poly, to catch as much sunlight from sun up/down. then the rest as regular walls. assuming that sunlight would only be hitting 1 main side. thats if it'd be really needed to catch as much sunlight cuz of location.

wordwiz - if you can get a hold of a small wood burning stove & a supply of free wood (trees,pallets, which you can get anywhere) & living in ohio, I think you could heat that all winter w/o a problem as long as you get the free wood, cuz your temps don't get as cold. as long as your city doesn't have a law against this.
 
Chili,

This city has No Smiling zones and you get arrested if you smile in one of them. The council wants to set up cameras to catch people the cops don't see smiling!

Our family likes bonfires where friends come over and sit around it. Quite a controlled burn, done in the rainy season and the fire never gets huge. But three times the FD has showed up and threatened to site me. Now we pitch a tent, Linda goes on strike and I have a couple of hot dogs and marshmallows sitting nearby (the exceptions to Ohio's burning outdoor burning laws).

I like the idea but I think it would cost more, at least initially, to build a fireplace or way to get rid of the smoke, than what it would save me in electricity.

Mike
 
wordwiz, check out craigslist. I almost bought one this year off of that site. it was a 25x80 if I remember correctly they were only asking 500 bucks for it. it was just a little to big to hide from my wife.

Dale
 
A few things to consider too, I spent a lot more on my insulated chimney pipe than I did on my woodstove, and having a woodstove could be an insurance concern especially if you're setup as a business.
 
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