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fermenting too sour fermented hot sauce?

salsalady

salsalady

eXtreme Business
Hey y'all, looking for some thoughts about a very sour ferment-
 
Most of the ferments I've done have had other ingredients along with the peppers like carrots, apples and such.  They've usually turned out with a nice ferment zing, heat according to the peppers used, and low pH.  Some of these ferments have worked for 5-6 months.
 
This last batch I started processing though....
Oh my WOW!!! is this SOUR!!!!  Like, I can't even take a taste test it's so sour!  And I like sauerkraut!, but I can't even think about using this stuff as a hot sauce it's so sour!!!!  Not the bite of vinegar, but lemon-sour sour. 
 
The approximate ingredients are-
96% green jalapenos
3% onion
1% garlic
 
light salt brine to cover and layered cabbage on the top to help with fermentation.  Warm Spot for 4 months, finished pH 2.7 or lower.  The numbers were still dropping when I took out the pH meter.
 
This is way beyond Tabasco or Hoy Fong sourness or vinegary-ness.  (is that even a word?  :lol: ) 
 
Is this normal?  Does anyone like stuff this sour?  Adding sugar to a sample helped.  That made it palatable to me.  I also added a bit of other sweeter vegetables to a sample and that also helped, but using that solution would pretty much double the amount of sauce I have (4 gallons), which is already quite a bit...  I don't really want to double the amount, and not sure if sugar is the answer, or maybe just leave it as it is and hopefully people will post videos of their SourFaces.  :lol:
 
Any thoughts?
SL
 
 
 
 
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I'd say more sugar (sweet), Ann, even though I know you've already tried that. I have a feeling I'm not gonna tell you anything you don't already know though ;) After all, you (and a few others here) pretty much taught me everything I know about making sauce, lol

I did come across this though:
https://food-hacks.wonderhowto.com/how-to/ingredients-101-use-baking-soda-neutralize-bitter-sour-flavors-food-0156750/

I have no idea whether or not adding baking soda to a bottled sauce would work out though (?), coming from a safety standpoint
 
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This guy had success using baking soda!
 

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You would have nothing to lose by by adjusting the pH of a same sample with baking soda as well as adding some sugar, if that suits  your tastes.  At 2.7 you have plenty of wiggle room!
 
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( GIP - I feel you pain!  I can't buy sauerkraut I really like and so my quest to make my own begins!)
 
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I'd forgotten about the baking soda trick.  I'll give that a try with a couple cups and let you know how it works out. 
 
Thanks for the comments!
 
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I know very little about MAKING hot sauce so forgive my ignorance, but could the sourness be caused by unwanted bacteria? I know when I was brewing beer a lot and a batch came out sour, that was usually the cause. Just a thought.
 
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Edmick said:
I know very little about MAKING hot sauce so forgive my ignorance, but could the sourness be caused by unwanted bacteria? I know when I was brewing beer a lot and a batch came out sour, that was usually the cause. Just a thought.
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Those unwanted bugs usually include Lactobacillus which is exactly the "wanted" bug in hot sauce ferments.
 
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SmokenFire said:
It's the green pods. not enough sugars.  balance with sweet and salt.  maybe a lil heat after.  
 
edit: mix into roasted hatch or anaheim type mashes or fresh salsa imo.
Click to expand...
 

Makes sense~ Thanks, SnF. 
 
Do people LIKE that sour of a sauce?
 
Thinking of the previous ferments I've done, most have been with red jalapeno or ripe habs.  I've also added apples or carrots to previous batches.  I have a batch of red jalapenos and a batch of orange habs that I'd added a bunch of carrots and stuff to still going.  Now I can't wait to work up the other batches! 
 
 
 
Not sure if I'll try to save the green batch or just write it off.  I could add a bunch of green peas and apples, basically doubling the batch size.  I was thinking I didnt want to bother with that much sauce until I hit the BuyButton on the bottle store site twice.......... 
 
Yep- double the bottles!  I was wondering why I was getting 15 UPS shipping updates a day.  :crazy:  
 
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I'm sure the ferment is just fine but when you turn it to sauce you'll need some honey, and possibly tequila. Boom!
 
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SmokenFire said:
It's the green pods. not enough sugars.  balance with sweet and salt.  maybe a lil heat after.  
 
edit: mix into roasted hatch or anaheim type mashes or fresh salsa imo.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't the amount of acid suggest that there was in fact quite a lot of fermentable sugars at the beginning, it's just that they've all been converted to lactic acid? Just like a wine which starts with a lot of sugar will end up with more alcohol if allowed to ferment all the way?
 
On any case, I agree with you and everyone else in that adding some sweetness now can really change the perception of sourness even if the pH doesn't change much. 
 
One other thought for SL: freeze some of the sour mash, and use it for future sauces for cases where you want to lower the pH of a green sauce to a safe level but without having to add vinegar or another pure acid.
 
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I think anything with a pH lower than 2 and higher  than 12.5 is considered hazardous. I thought it was <2.5 and >12.5, but that wouldn't be the first time I was wrong.
 
I've dosed the hell out of hot sauces with apple cider vinegar and lemon/lime juice, and I'm about to again! My initial liberally dosed samples tested about 3.2 pH, on a weekly calibrated lab meter. I even did a two point calibration prior in the low range.
 
I'll probably start processing some of the ~month old ferments tomorrow, and a representative sample will go to the lab to see where the pH is at, and we may go ahead and run if for cATP or cellular adenosine triphosphate, which doesn't differentiate good/bad, but deals with total cellular activity.
 
 
 
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jhc said:
Wouldn't the amount of acid suggest that there was in fact quite a lot of fermentable sugars at the beginning, it's just that they've all been converted to lactic acid? Just like a wine which starts with a lot of sugar will end up with more alcohol if allowed to ferment all the way?
 
On any case, I agree with you and everyone else in that adding some sweetness now can really change the perception of sourness even if the pH doesn't change much. 
 
One other thought for SL: freeze some of the sour mash, and use it for future sauces for cases where you want to lower the pH of a green sauce to a safe level but without having to add vinegar or another pure acid.
Click to expand...
 
Great point jhc, and one I should have commented further on.  I blame the tequila, lol.
 
My original thought process as I recall had more to do with the ferment bringing out the grassy/sour notes of the green pods.  I've had the same result running ferments with nearly all green pods ~ basically like a sour patch kids version of hot sauce.  
 
 
 
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